External Amp advice.

[Musicman61]

Maybe you just don't like 2ch upmixed. What happens when you play real surround content?

It's not that. Everything sounded great in surround modes prior to using the emotiva amp.

 

[Musicman61]

Using Center Spread on Dolby? Center Image on Neo 6:Music?

Yes using spread.

 

[mtrycrafts]

.... I've been a sound freak for many years as well as being a musician my self for 40 years ...

Unfortunately, controlled testing doesn't give conductors or musicians an edge over others for difference detection. You may be quickr on the draw but still not hit the bullseye.
It seems you are not doing a proper comparison, certainly nothing under any bias controls. System may not be level matched all the speakers or level matched the two amps and a few other issues that will give an impression of such differences.
But, if one sounds better that you like, great, switch and forget the aggravations.

 

[Musicman61]

There are many issues that can be at play, here, and without better information, we honestly cannot help.
1: YPAO is not correctly set up.
1B: YPAO measurements were not accurate.
2: Speakers are not properly assigned.
3: Surround speakers are FX Bi-Poles that can be messing with your expectations
4: room set up and physical speaker placement
5: ...I'm losing track myself.

Please understand, @Musicman61 , we get a lot of people that ask questions and dip or just do what they want after getting advice, etc. We offer to help because we are truly interested in helping elevate your experience.
That all three of us are telling you your descriptions aren't helping should be clear.
Rather than going all tribal-speak, or arguing about bias, we can still help if you want.

Sorry but it gets a little frustrating when I have to keep repeating my self. I'm making this as clear as I possibly can. 1. Yes I absolutely have everything connected properly. 2. Ran calibration multiple times. 3. I've been trouble shooting this for weeks. 4. Heard it with 2 brands of speakers with same results. Used to have a full surround set of polk rti series. 5.ive been an audio freak long before most of these people posting were even born. I know what I'm hearing and what I am hearing is that listening to music in surround no longer sounds good like it did before getting the emotiva amp. As I've stated a dozen times already, 2 channel music sounds fantastic using the emotiva amp. Much better than just using the yamaha receiver by its self. But surround is a no go. I like to switch it up and play surround for music instead of just 2 channel stuff. I have a fair collection of sacd stuff as well as bluray audio cds. It doesn't seem to matter what format I'm playing or what mode, be it the upmixing mode as well. This is what is baffling to me. I don't understand why the surround has degraded since using the amp. That was my original question.

 

[lovinthehd]

It's not that. Everything sounded great in surround modes prior to using the emotiva amp.

Since adding the Emotiva, the surround is worse or you just don't like it as much in comparison to using the Yamaha alone? If you take the Emotiva out of the mix you like the surround sound again using just the Yamaha? Maybe figure out a switch so when you want to listen to surround you can use just the Yamaha if it's better than using with the Emotiva.

Could be something related to the setup/mode, hard to know. Just adding an amp hasn't changed a surround experience for me as you describe. More seamless IME let alone any major differences except in spl capability. That's with several different avrs/amps with various speakers in various rooms....not once did I think oh adding that amp is way different....but then I'm pretty adept at setting up systems too....

 

[Musicman61]

Unfortunately, controlled testing doesn't give conductors or musicians an edge over others for difference detection. You may be quickr on the draw but still not hit the bullseye.
It seems you are not doing a proper comparison, certainly nothing under any bias controls. System may not be level matched all the speakers or level matched the two amps and a few other issues that will give an impression of such differences.
But, if one sounds better that you like, great, switch and forget the aggravations.

Well here's is what I think is going on. Because of the yamaha receiver only now being used to power the surround channels maybe the yamaha just doesn't put out the same level of sound quality not to mention the yamaha does not use 4 ohms for the surrounds. Only the main fronts which are bring powered by the emotiva. That may not be helping matters any. The logans are 4 ohms and emotiva can put out 4 ohms but the yamaha is using 8 ohms. And I think if anyone wants to say that the using different amps shouldn't make a big deal in sound then they should run out to Walmart and pick up an insignia crap av receiver and power your speakers with it. See if there isn't a sound difference when switching to a quality amp. There most certainly is a sound difference and I think that may be whats going on here. I will find out for certain when I add more modules to the emotiva so the yamaha won't be used for its power at all. I think this will solve the dilemma for me. Thanks for the input.

 

[Musicman61]

Since adding the Emotiva, the surround is worse or you just don't like it as much in comparison to using the Yamaha alone? If you take the Emotiva out of the mix you like the surround sound again using just the Yamaha? Maybe figure out a switch so when you want to listen to surround you can use just the Yamaha if it's better than using with the Emotiva.

Could be something related to the setup/mode, hard to know. Just adding an amp hasn't changed a surround experience for me as you describe. More seamless IME let alone any major differences except in spl capability. That's with several different avrs/amps with various speakers in various rooms....not once did I think oh adding that amp is way different....but then I'm pretty adept at setting up systems too....

The surround is worse. Its definitely lacking. I will add more modules to the Emotiva and see how it goes

 

[Trebdp83]

Yes I understand that. What I'm saying is everything in surround now sounds like crap since hooking up the emotiva amp. It sounded fine before that.

Got it. Yeah, I’d be frustrated as hell, too. Shouldn’t really matter if just letting another amp power the fronts. Come back with results of any changes.

 

[lovinthehd]

The surround is worse. Its definitely lacking. I will add more modules to the Emotiva and see how it goes

It'll still be surround, tho. Good luck with the amp thing....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

@Musicman61,
When you say sounds like crap in surround. What do you actually hear that’s different? Less dynamics? Less detail? Less volume? Clipped signals? Distortion? Just “sounding like crap” doesn’t narrow down very much. Trying to verbalize what we hear can be difficult for sure.
My first hunch was a level issue, but for all that ypao misses, it usually gets that right so... Even still, I always verify with an spl meter that audyssey has set my levels correctly. Sometimes even a 1db difference between my mains can pull the imaging to one side for example.
I guess I’m saying if you could try and describe a little more, it could possibly help to narrow down.

 

[Pogre]

Please understand, @Musicman61 , we get a lot of people that ask questions and dip or just do what they want after getting advice, etc. We offer to help because we are truly interested in helping elevate your experience.

Oh I gave up. I'm just reading purely for entertainment now.

 

[ryanosaur]

Oh I gave up. I'm just reading purely for entertainment now.

There's only so much we can do.

 

[Musicman61]

@Musicman61,
When you say sounds like crap in surround. What do you actually hear that’s different? Less dynamics? Less detail? Less volume? Clipped signals? Distortion? Just “sounding like crap” doesn’t narrow down very much. Trying to verbalize what we hear can be difficult for sure.
My first hunch was a level issue, but for all that ypao misses, it usually gets that right so... Even still, I always verify with an spl meter that audyssey has set my levels correctly. Sometimes even a 1db difference between my mains can pull the imaging to one side for example.
I guess I’m saying if you could try and describe a little more, it could possibly help to narrow down.

All of the above that you mentioned.

 

[Pogre]

All of the above that you mentioned.

So you're experiencing distortion, less dynamics, less detail, less volume and clipped signals all at the same time just by adding an external amp?

Wow. Might be time for a complete system overhaul...

 

[Musicman61]

Only in surround modes with the emotiva amp hooked up. With out it everything is fine. 2 Channel with the amp is also fine

 

[Musicman61]

So you're experiencing distortion, less dynamics, less detail, less volume and clipped signals all at the same time just by adding an external amp?

Wow. Might be time for a complete system overhaul...

Minus the clipping part.

 

[Musicman61]

There's only so much we can do.

If this is entertainment for you then you really need to get a life.

Oh I gave up. I'm just reading purely for entertainment now.

Wow If this is entertainment for you then you really need to get a life.

 

[Pogre]

If this is entertainment for you then you really need to get a life.

Wow If this is entertainment for you then you really need to get a life.

What? So I enjoy reading creative fiction. It's a guilty pleasure!

 

[ryanosaur]

If this is entertainment for you then you really need to get a life.

Just a reminder:

There are many issues that can be at play, here, and without better information, we honestly cannot help.
1: YPAO is not correctly set up.
1B: YPAO measurements were not accurate.
2: Speakers are not properly assigned.
3: Surround speakers are FX Bi-Poles that can be messing with your expectations
4: room set up and physical speaker placement
5: ...I'm losing track myself.

Please understand, @Musicman61 , we get a lot of people that ask questions and dip or just do what they want after getting advice, etc. We offer to help because we are truly interested in helping elevate your experience.
That all three of us are telling you your descriptions aren't helping should be clear.
Rather than going all tribal-speak, or arguing about bias, we can still help if you want.

I offered a bit of assistance yesterday AND tried to keep the thread positive, helpful and on track.

Ugg. Unga fuking bunga bunga!

Eloquent. And you still aren't engaging in a manner which will allow us to help you solve your problem.

Me, I'm good. Got no problems with you.
If you want to turn this productive(?), ball's in your court. We'll help you work through it the best we can. Cool?

 

[Musicman61]

What? So I enjoy reading creative fiction. It's a guilty pleasure!

You wouldn't by any chance happen to be living in your mother's basement would you?