I want new bookshelves, but I don't need them. UGH!

[lp85253]

The Phil AA+ isn't going to win the beauty contest, but of the list OP provided... not a single speaker can compete with what the AA+ can do.
According to Dennis, it takes about 20 mins to assemble. Nothing technical required beyond use of a Phillips screwdriver.

I was going to say: grab the aa+s and then stop worrying about upgrading

 

[Swerd]

As to fire hazard? I'm not a Marshal, but in the speakers I've seen into, the stuffing is all over the XOs, both Dennis' and others.
Ideally, yes, you would likely do things to keep them separate.
@Swerd , thoughts?

The voltage and current running through an audio crossover qualifies as Low Voltage. I've never had a problem with polyfill or polyurethane stuffing touching the crossover board. Never used EcoCore before, but it can't be more flammable than the other types.

As far as poor fitting Quick Disconnects, I once bought a bag of cheap QDs and found them unusable, even with careful use of needle nose pliers. I eventually threw them out, finding other ways to make those kind of connections.

More recently, Dennis assured me that my bad experience with cheap QDs was similar to his own. He now uses Molex brand QDs. They are actually made in the USA. More importantly, they fit well.

 

[panteragstk]

The voltage and current running through an audio crossover qualifies as Low Voltage. I've never had a problem with polyfill or polyurethane stuffing touching the crossover board. Never used EcoCore before, but it can't be more flammable than the other types.

As far as poor fitting Quick Disconnects, I once bought a bag of cheap QDs and found them unusable, even with careful use of needle nose pliers. I eventually threw them out, finding other ways to make those kind of connections.

More recently, Dennis assured me that my bad experience with cheap QDs was similar to his own. He now uses Molex brand QDs. They are actually made in the USA. More importantly, they fit well.

Molex. That's a name I haven't heard in a while.

I used a ton of filler material in my subs and they're getting quite a bit more power than most speakers would. That filler is touching the contacts on the driver as well as the posts. No issues for 10 years or so.

I used regular polyfill.

 

[MalVeauX]

Thanks all; reassuring!

I got notice that the AA+'s shipped today (1 to 3 days).

Very best,

 

[lp85253]

Thanks all; reassuring!

I got notice that the AA+'s shipped today (1 to 3 days).

Very best,

That's a fine choice .. Best of luck, i hope they sound great to you...

 

[MalVeauX]

Update,

Everything shipped. First to arrive are the BR-1 cabinets from Parts Express in their own box with no parts, just the cabinets. The second box from Parts Express had the DC160-8 classic series drivers in them, two of them. I inspected everything and everything arrived without obvious damage, I was anxious since our couriers around here have been super unfriendly to boxes as of late. These were very well packaged and inside big foam barriers and all.

The cabinets are not monsters, but they're not small. They're pretty solid. They are nice and heavy. They're sturdy, nothing is chipped or nasty. Inside looks good, not just a glob of glue mess and stray staples or something. They seem pretty well made and everything survived. Terminals look good. Pre-drilled holes look good, no ugly broken stuff on the opposite side. Good quality control.

Woofers look good, everything looks in order and the terminals look good and everything is marked.

Now, just waiting for the other box to show up from Dennis that should have the crossovers, upgraded tweeters and the other supplies to build the Philharmonics AA+.

Sadly I work the next 5 days straight so I won't see anything until maybe April even if it arrives before then. I'll update as I get the stuff in and post any progress.

Very best,

 

[MalVeauX]

Update,

Received the shipment (USPS flat rate box) from Dennis to complete the Philharmonic AA+'s today. Here's what's in the box:

2x Crossover setups assembled with +/- wiring and terminals (Acoustic Linkwitz-Riley, 1900 Hz Xover)
2x Dampening Material Pads
1x Bag of Screws (*)
2x Tweeters (the Morel silk dome MDT32S's)
1x Test CD (classical/jazz mixes)

I am curious, I'm not sure what these parts are (*) so I'm asking if anyone knows what I'm supposed to do with the following 3 little plug things. Not sure what they are. I may have missed the description in the PDF instructions on the Philharmonic AA+ website.

The screw bag had 4 sets of items:

Smaller screws x 7
Larger screws x 9
Large flange screws x 4
Plastic plug things (?? *) x 3

The cabinets have 3 screw holes for the tweeter; 4 screw holes for the woofer. So that is the smaller/larger screws with 1 extra each I think? Per the PDF instruction I think this is right, simply with an extra each just in case.

And I'm not sure what the 3 plug things are for.

I figured it would be simple and it probably is, but I'm not sure what those remainder parts in the screw bag are for. Any advice is welcome!

Forgive me I'm a dunce, the instructions are on the Philharmonic website in PDF so I re-read them. Apparently the large flange screws are for mounting the cross over boards. The other two screw sets are obvious. So all that remains are the 3 plug things (sorry for lack of a better word on my part).

Also, I'm not confident I understand the placement of the dampening material. It seemed to be that each pad is placed in the space behind the woofer to line the top/bottom/sides up to the brace that leads to the upper space with the port cone and tweeter; I think what I'm understanding is that there's no dampening material in the upper chamber of the cabinet then? It's not needed since the tweeter is sealed? So each dampening pad material just symmetrically cups into the woofer's chamber and that's it?

I have 4 days of work left then 2 days off, so hopefully I can build these on the first or second of April.

Very best,

 

[lovinthehd]

@D Murphy ?

 

[ryanosaur]

Those are replacement grille pegs... those grilles are not... the sturdiest. Mine came pretty much completely broken away.
I bought a whole pack of them JIC... but I never attached the grilles!

 

[MalVeauX]

Those are replacement grille pegs... those grilles are not... the sturdiest. Mine came pretty much completely broken away.
I bought a whole pack of them JIC... but I never attached the grilles!

Hah! Ok then, makes sense. I too do not care to have the grills on. I like to see the drivers on all speakers. So that's that! I hope to build these in the next few days then.

Just to confirm for anyone:

For the dampening material placement, does each pack simply cup symmetrically into the lower chamber to cover the back, sides and top with the crossover on the bottom of the cabinet under the dampening material, free of the woofer, with the woofer not touching any of it (to kill reflections). And none of the material is broken off or put up into the top chamber of the cabinet?

Very best,

 

[Swerd]

For the dampening material placement, does each pack simply cup symmetrically into the lower chamber to cover the back, sides and top with the crossover on the bottom of the cabinet under the dampening material, free of the woofer, with the woofer not touching any of it (to kill reflections). And none of the material is broken off or put up into the top chamber of the cabinet?

The best photo of the BR-1 cabinet is here. Below is a screen shot of that photo enlarged.

The lower part of the cabinet (behind the woofer) is essentially open to the upper part of the cabinet (behind the tweeter). There are two cross-braces visible in the photo just below the tweeter opening, but the interior of the cabinet is one space that allows sound waves coming from the back of the woofer to travel throughout. The port tube is mounted on the back of the cabinet, directly behind the tweeter.

In a ported speaker cabinet, the purpose of the dampening material is to line the interior surfaces, minimizing interior reflections of the woofer's back waves. The back of the woofer is open to the inside of the cabinet, but tweeter is enclosed by it's own rear chamber. The opening of the port tube inside the cabinet must be left open.

1. First priority, line the side walls and rear of the lower cabinet, behind the woofer. Don't block the back of the woofer.
2. Second priority, if there is enough materal, line the walls and top of the upper cabinet. Don't block the opening of the port tube.
3. Finally, if enough material is left, cover the crossover board mounted on the floor of the cabinet.

My answer is only a generalized guess. After reading Dennis Murphy's instructions, It seems like he intended the lining material to do only #1 above. If so, don't worry about #2 and #3.

For the definitive answer, wait for Dennis Murphy's response.

 

[MalVeauX]

In a ported speaker cabinet, the purpose of the dampening material is to line the interior surfaces, minimizing interior reflections of the woofer's back waves. The back of the woofer is open to the inside of the cabinet, but tweeter is enclosed by it's own rear chamber. The opening of the port tube inside the cabinet must be left open.

1. First priority, line the side walls and rear of the lower cabinet, behind the woofer. Don't block the back of the woofer.
2. Second priority, if there is enough materal, line the walls and top of the upper cabinet. Don't block the opening of the port tube.
3. Finally, if enough material is left, cover the crossover board mounted on the floor of the cabinet.

My answer is only a generalized guess. After reading Dennis Murphy's instructions, It seems like he intended the lining material to do only #1 above. If so, don't worry about #2 and #3.

For the definitive answer, wait for Dennis Murphy's response.

Thanks, I tried watching the video on Parts Express how they lined the BR-1's with their foam.

But wanted to know how best to do it per Dennis's design instead. The material looks thick. I'm not sure there's enough for the whole cabinet if left as is. But I also don't know if it's layers and that I"m supposed to split the layer into half each so that I can do top/bottom of the cabinet. And if it's preferred to get more dampening material for the top, I will, I'd rather get it right the first time.

Very best,

 

[ryanosaur]

Again, the photo I linked you to earlier is exactly how Dennis installed the eco-core in the AAs I bought from him in 2018. I replaced in my AA+ mod exactly as I found it.

ust fold it up like a “U” to fit in the woofer hole, and tuck it in and up so that the back upper corners find their way up and in to the two spaces on either side of the cross brace in back. Work it in like that so you end up with an inch or so of space behind the woofer.

What Swerd said about stuffing ported cabinets is correct. In this instance all Dennis is doing is breaking up the back wave from the woofer. And if you read Dennis’ description and compare it to mine and that photo in my link, it should make sense. *fingers crossed

 

[Swerd]

Thanks, I tried watching the video on Parts Express how they lined the BR-1's with their foam.

But wanted to know how best to do it per Dennis's design instead. The material looks thick. I'm not sure there's enough for the whole cabinet if left as is. But I also don't know if it's layers and that I"m supposed to split the layer into half each so that I can do top/bottom of the cabinet. And if it's preferred to get more dampening material for the top, I will, I'd rather get it right the first time.

That Eco-Core material is thick. In his AA+ kit instructions (quoted below), he clearly says to use "one of the pads of the supplied blue Eco-Core" to line one of the cabinets.

It should result in "a deep lined pocket" where the back of that pad should be about 2 inches from the back of the cabinet. That couldn't happen if you split layers. Dennis never mentioned splitting layers. I agree the wording isn't precisely clear. A photo or two could help clarify this.

Step Four
Once the crossover board is mounted (or not mounted), move the woofer and tweeter wires to one side and push one of the pads of the supplied blue Eco-Core through the woofer hole and position it symmetrically toward the back of the cabinet. Be careful not to push the woofer wires from the Xover board back into the cabinet when you're installing the Eco-Core. Pull the top portion up against the cabinet brace, the bottom up to cover most of the crossover board, and the sides up along the sides of the cabinet. When you're done, there should be a deep lined pocket to receive the woofer back wave, and the back of the pad will probably be up perhaps 2 inches from the back of the cabinet. (Eco-Core is the most absorbent sound treatment available, and almost none of the woofer back wave will be reflected back to the woofer cone.)

 

[ryanosaur]

Here’s the link to the post where I showed the installed eco-core, 4th photo:

First time DIY XO build, random questions

Sad trombone moment. Wa-wahhhh In trying to get the tweeter board installed, one screw broke clean into the cabinet, and in the process, I cracked a resistor. :( What’s one more delay?! :) Time to go see about ordering that part, and clearly finding better screws!!! I’ll be back next week...

forums.audioholics.com

 

[Swerd]

Just fold it up like a “U” to fit in the woofer hole, and tuck it in and up so that the back upper corners find their way up and in to the two spaces on either side of the cross brace in back. Work it in like that so you end up with an inch or so of space behind the woofer.

Just to be clear, is this what you meant?

Fold the Eco-Core piece into a U shape, and place it on a table, on it's side. There are 2 ways you can lie that U on it's side, but one is correct and the other is not. If you're directly above that U and look straight down, the correct way should allow you to see through the center of the U to the table. The incorrect way allows you to see only a slab of Eco-Core.

Stuff the U into the woofer hole so that the bottom of the U goes against the back of the cabinet. The two sides of the U go against the sides of the cabinet.

Tuck the back of the U into the corners of the back of the cabinet. That leaves the crossover board near the cabinet sides covered, but the board's center is uncovered. And it leaves the tops of the U's sides an inch or two behind the woofer.

Edit: It can be a struggle to get this clearly worded without a diagram or a photo. Your photo doesn't really look like what I'm imagining. What have I got wrong?

 

[ryanosaur]

Just to further this from an educational standpoint, this link is one of Troels Gravesens' builds and you can see in several photos down the page where he is lining the compartments as discussed here as the more common practice.

DISC-4

www.troelsgravesen.dk

And another:

Ellipticor-3

www.troelsgravesen.dk

And this one he is using Bitumen Pads, as well as Felt/eco-core:

SBAcoustics 10

www.troelsgravesen.dk

In an ideal world where you control the build, this is clearly the "right way." The BR-1 Kit from PE does have you line the cabinet, in its entirety, with foam... but it is clearly not necessary. Or at least not in Dennis' estimation.

 

[ryanosaur]

Just to be clear, is this what you meant?

Fold the Eco-Core piece into a U shape, and place it on a table, on it's side. There are 2 ways you can lie that U on it's side, but one is correct and the other is not. If you're directly above that U and look straight down, the correct way should allow you to see through the center of the U to the table. The incorrect way allows you to see only a slab of Eco-Core.

Stuff the U into the woofer hole so that the bottom of the U goes against the back of the cabinet. The two sides of the U go against the sides of the cabinet.

Tuck the back of the U into the corners of the back of the cabinet. That leaves the crossover board near the cabinet sides covered, but the board's center is uncovered. And it leaves the tops of the U's sides an inch or two behind the woofer.

The bottom of the "U" should be on the bottom and back of the speaker cabinet with the uprights of the "U" going up the sides.
The back edge of the Eco-Core gets scrunched against the center front-back brace, and the back corners of the Eco-Core fit up (sort of) near the sides of the Port... but not really all the way up.

I'm opening one up... will attach more photos in a moment

 

[ryanosaur]

Ok... and the good news is I may have found the source of that rattle!
Anyway:
There was an extra shred of stuffing in my speakers inside the Taco.

I do not think this is necessary, but it was there and so I kept it all together.

For the square of EcoCore, it should look like this:

And a different angle so you can see how I worked the corners up into the spaces:

One last note, with my mod, I used a huge 100uF Cap on the woofer circuit instead of the smaller NPE Cap.
This is the big red thing bottom-front-center. I creatively tucked that extra strip down in front of the Cap (see first photo in this post).

Hope this help make more sense!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Swerd]

@ryanosaur – Thanks for photos.

@MalVeauX – I hope all of this was clear. I finally watched the PE video for assembling the BR-1 kit. Those instructions are generally good, but ignore the part about the convoluted foam lining, and instead do what Dennis says with the Eco-Core he provides.

I saw in the video where the guy used spray adhesive to glue in the foam. He's a lot better at controlling the spray that than I am. I once tried it and got adhesive all over the inside of the cabinet, my hands, and everywhere else too. I now avoid that like the plague. The easiest way to install lining is to just cram it in. If I need it, I use a few lines of hot melt glue.

One final note. In the video, did you notice how the guy used 2 hands while driving in the mounting screws for the woofer and tweeter?