How to SEAL...?

[Din61]

No, retired to US after sailing for many years around the world. She may have returned to SL or stayed in California where they had a ranch....he died a year or so ago but I'd have to ask my sister who was more in touch. We're all about to join you in some funky economies I think due Covid....

Oh, sorry 'bout him...

No dear, for us Covid isn't the specific reason but we're still a developing nation for over 7 decades from independance, poor thinking is the reason, we don't know how to evaluate democracy, we like being political slaves, racism/fundamentalism is all over, no national/international policy, no forest conservation, no state encouragement on local production and so on... I bet you'll give up the idea of making a diy system if you visit SL (wish we'd meet one day), it's that difficult in a country like SL where AVAILABILITY matters the most.

 

[Din61]

It is a darn good performer. Did you notice that I'm using three of those subwoofers in my home theater?

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/my-7-channel-system.111234/

Where do you live? You could verify with Parts-Express to see if they would ship to your home place. The shipping cost might be prohibitive though:

Home

Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 OhmThe Dayton Audio Reference Series RSS390HF-4 15" speakers take the quality and performance of the much acclaimed RS line into the subwoofer realm. As with the rest of the Reference Series, the main focus of these subwoofers is...

www.parts-express.com

Otherwise, it might be good of you to tell us what raw driver brands are available in your country, so we could see what are some alternate possibilities.

Just saw your system, are those Dayton cabs SEALED?

I got an off-topic question seeing that Airborne, are ribbon tweeters good for hi-fi listening in your opinion?

Friend, we're usually buying from eBay, cos shipping is mostly available in eBay, see below, 376 with shipping cost, a pair would cost me 752, seems too much (comparing to the real price).

Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

But, in "parts-express" (I went to the link before) it's just 194 and free shipping as well, but no info whether or not shipping to SL (Sri Lanka is the country), it allows me to select SL in the checkout form however, I'm wholly new to "parts-express", how do I verify if I can purchase the item...?

I'm planning on a 2-way stereo in SEALED cabs to hit beyond 70-80hz, do I really need to have 2 low-freq boxes then, (if not I'd buy 1 from the eBay seller above)?

 

[TLS Guy]

'A sub', yes- it's difficult but with more subs, enough power and some equalization, it's not terribly difficult.

You're referring to the driver's QTs, right? I was talking about the Q of the system. A correctly designed sealed box will be in the .5 to .707. .5 is considered 'dry-sounding', .707 is more typical and the slope is more gentle than ported, but it's very easy to miscalculate when designing a ported system and cause a large peak, which is impossible with a sealed design. A sealed design can work with the room to extend the response, but it will likely need some EQ for the bass to be considered 'strong', unless its output is higher than the midbass/midrange and tweeter(s).

I have built car systems with sealed enclosures that absolutely sounded amazing and with 4 10" woofers, there was no lack of output. The response from that system was also among the flattest I have ever seen and I judged IASCA events for 4 years. One of the cars I did for an IASCA event scored 37/40 using the same model of RTA that I used for the other and it wasn't as good, although I didn't have an RTA to see the response when we dialed it in because they had been moved to the event as I was finishing the car. The car with the 4 woofers was one of the smoothest-sounding systems I can remember and yes, they were sealed.

Audio Control made a piece called 'Epicenter', for creating a subharmonic to reinforce low frequencies that were lacking and the guy with the 4 woofers had bought one before I reworked his system. It was also the reason he killed some woofers, which was the reason I reworked it. Once it was done, he never used it and it was removed, so be sold. I never had a chance to really tweak it in great detail because he really liked it. One Saturday, he came into the store to say he was going to the IASCA event in Gray's Lake, IL. Without dialing it in, he took 3rd Place in the 501-1000 Watt class which was always the largest group of cars.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fhometheaterhifi.com%2Fvolume_5_2%2Fimages%2Fdamping.gif&f=1&nofb=1

You certainly can get a peak in a sealed enclosure. A rise in output before roll off is all too common and known as ripple. That is something you really have to watch for in models, and the models tend to under estimate it in my opinion.

 

[Din61]

You certainly can get a peak in a sealed enclosure. A rise in output before roll off is all too common and known as ripple. That is something you really have to watch for in models, and the models tend to under estimate it in my opinion.

You mean common for every type of enclosure?

 

[Verdinut]

Just saw your system, are those Dayton cabs SEALED?

I got an off-topic question seeing that Airborne, are ribbon tweeters good for hi-fi listening in your opinion?

But, in "parts-express" (I went to the link before) it's just 194 and free shipping as well, but no info whether or not shipping to SL (Sri Lanka is the country), it allows me to select SL in the checkout form however, I'm wholly new to "parts-express", how do I verify if I can purchase the item...?

I'm planning on a 2-way stereo in SEALED cabs to hit beyond 70-80hz, do I really need to have 2 low-freq boxes then, (if not I'd buy 1 from the eBay seller above)?

No, those cabs are ported at the back using two 4" pipes, all of them tuned at 16 Hz. The Airborne tweeters are Air Motion transformer drivers which is different from a ribbon tweeter. If it had not been good as a Hi-Fi transducer, I wouldn't be using it.

As for Parts-Express, the free shipping only applies to residents of the USA. You can probably chat or write to them and see if they would ship to SL and if so, get to know the shipping cost.

I would build two cabinets for the subs. In your "L" shaped room, with two separate enclosures, in my opinion, it would be easier to install them to obtain a better low frequency balance. In addition, two 8-9 cubic foot cabs are easier to handle than one heavier with a 16-18 cf net internal volume.

 

[Din61]

No, those cabs are ported at the back using two 4" pipes, all of them tuned at 16 Hz. The Airborne tweeters are Air Motion transformer drivers which is different from a ribbon tweeter. If it had not been good as a Hi-Fi transducer, I wouldn't be using it.

16hz? Wow!
Ah, just wanted to know about the tweeter cos I haven't experienced it, not available in our country.

As for Parts-Express, the free shipping only applies to residents of the USA. You can probably chat or write to them and see if they would ship to SL and if so, get to know the shipping cost.

Okay, should try...

I would build two cabinets for the subs. In your "L" shaped room, with two separate enclosures, in my opinion, it would be easier to install them to obtain a better low frequency balance. In addition, two 8-9 cubic foot cabs are easier to handle than one heavier with a 16-18 cf net internal volume.

Yep, I meant 2 of that Dayton in 2 seperate cabs, of course, 2 in 2 is way advantageous than 2 in 1.
But, you'd BUILD them for me? What am I missing in that sentence?

BTW, I'll check with the automobile sellers here to see if there's a possibility of going for a car audio woofer down to 20hz in the meantime.

 

[lovinthehd]

Oh, sorry 'bout him...

No dear, for us Covid isn't the specific reason but we're still a developing nation for over 7 decades from independance, poor thinking is the reason, we don't know how to evaluate democracy, we like being political slaves, racism/fundamentalism is all over, no national/international policy, no forest conservation, no state encouragement on local production and so on... I bet you'll give up the idea of making a diy system if you visit SL (wish we'd meet one day), it's that difficult in a country like SL where AVAILABILITY matters the most.

Oh don't think we're that different in the last four years at least

 

[Verdinut]

16hz? Wow!
Ah, just wanted to know about the tweeter cos I haven't experienced it, not available in our country.


Okay, should try...


Yep, I meant 2 of that Dayton in 2 seperate cabs, of course, 2 in 2 is way advantageous than 2 in 1.
But, you'd BUILD them for me? What am I missing in that sentence?

BTW, I'll check with the automobile sellers here to see if there's a possibility of going for a car audio woofer down to 20hz in the meantime.

I meant that, if I was in your shoes, I'd build 2 separate cabinets. I'm in Canada, Could you imagine the cost of shipping 2 boxes weighing more than 150 lbs each?

As for the car audio woofer, I doubt that you would be able to get a sub that has a true Hi-Fi performance.

 

[lovinthehd]

I meant that, if I was in your shoes, I'd build 2 separate cabinets. I'm in Canada, Could you imagine the cost of shipping 2 boxes weighing more than 150 lbs each?

As for the car audio woofer, I doubt that you would be able to get a sub that has a true Hi-Fi performance.

What T/S parameters would indicate a "car" sub is insufficiently "hi-fi" ? Your Dayton could be considered a car sub, too, couldn't it?

 

[highfigh]

You certainly can get a peak in a sealed enclosure. A rise in output before roll off is all too common and known as ripple. That is something you really have to watch for in models, and the models tend to under estimate it in my opinion.

But that peak (usually more of a rise, really) isn't as severe as it can be with the Q of a vented box in the 1.5+ range- I don't remember seeing a sealed box model with such a high Q. I didn't write that it can't happen to have any peak, I wrote that it's impossible to have a large peak with a sealed driver but should have added 'if the driver is designed to be in a sealed enclosure'. I should have included something about a leaking enclosure, too- I have seen systems with a peak when the builder wasn't careful about sealing.

I'm sure you have been unfortunate enough to be in the area of a car that was playing a narrow range of bass notes with the license plate frame and other parts vibrating for all to hear. Those systems are often designed specifically for that one note/narrow range and it's easy to do. You would hate seeing the response curve in the software.

 

[highfigh]

You mean common for every type of enclosure?

It's common if the person using the software doesn't make sure to avoid it. It's easiest to make the peak disappear in a sealed box by increasing the internal volume and in a vented box through a combination of increasing the box and changing the port tuning to flatten it. If you're using WinISD, pick a subwoofer driver and let the software model it for 'optimum'- change the internal volume and watch as the response changes and once you have gained some experience with that, go back to the smoother original curve and change the length and diameter of the port to watch how the tuning frequency changes the response. If the box volume is too high and the port's tuning frequency is too low, the area between the tuning frequencies will sag and it can look a bit like the Golden Gate Bridge.

 

[highfigh]

I meant that, if I was in your shoes, I'd build 2 separate cabinets. I'm in Canada, Could you imagine the cost of shipping 2 boxes weighing more than 150 lbs each?

As for the car audio woofer, I doubt that you would be able to get a sub that has a true Hi-Fi performance.

You need to hear some well-designed car systems- you would be surprised by the sound quality.

I never built systems for 'MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!' if the customer was interested in real sound quality. The cars I mentioned were able to play any kind of music, although some of the cars we did were specifically for Rap. Since cars are irregularly-shaped and many have cloth covering most surfaces, the acoustics are much better than most listening rooms in the sense that multiple reflections don't occur and the low frequencies aren't contained by the vehicle, so they don't cause the same problems.

 

[Verdinut]

What T/S parameters would indicate a "car" sub is insufficiently "hi-fi" ? Your Dayton could be considered a car sub, too, couldn't it?

The Dayton HF series of subs relates to high fidelity and is not recommended by the manufacturer for use in a vehicle, whereas the HO series is specifically designed for cars.

Home

Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 OhmThe Dayton Audio Reference Series RSS390HF-4 15" speakers take the quality and performance of the much acclaimed RS line into the subwoofer realm. As with the rest of the Reference Series, the main focus of these subwoofers is...

www.parts-express.com

Home

Dayton Audio RSS390HO-4 15" Reference HO Subwoofer 4 OhmThe Dayton Audio Reference Series subwoofers take the quality and performance of the much acclaimed RS line into the subwoofer realm. As with the rest of the Reference Series, the main focus of these subwoofers is ultra-low-distortion...

www.parts-express.com

 

[lovinthehd]

The Dayton HF series of subs relates to high fidelity and is not recommended by the manufacturer for use in a vehicle, whereas the HO series is specifically designed for cars.

Home

Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 OhmThe Dayton Audio Reference Series RSS390HF-4 15" speakers take the quality and performance of the much acclaimed RS line into the subwoofer realm. As with the rest of the Reference Series, the main focus of these subwoofers is...

www.parts-express.com

Home

Dayton Audio RSS390HO-4 15" Reference HO Subwoofer 4 OhmThe Dayton Audio Reference Series subwoofers take the quality and performance of the much acclaimed RS line into the subwoofer realm. As with the rest of the Reference Series, the main focus of these subwoofers is ultra-low-distortion...

www.parts-express.com

Doesn't answer the question, tho and the HO is recommended for both car and home....

 

[Verdinut]

Doesn't answer the question, tho and the HO is recommended for both car and home....

So would get the HO model to install in your home? If this HO driver was that good for hi-fi, then why did Dayton produce the HF series for home use?

 

[lovinthehd]

So would get the HO model to install in your home? If this HO driver was that good for hi-fi, then why did Dayton produce the HF series for home use?

Produced for or marketed for? Sure, some aren't suited for the additional volume or for home theater type extension, but there are some drivers that cross over....

ps Neither driver particularly appeals to me, more an SI fan.

 

[Verdinut]

Produced for or marketed for? Sure, some aren't suited for the additional volume or for home theater type extension, but there are some drivers that cross over....

ps Neither driver particularly appeals to me, more an SI fan.

On their site, Dayton recommend the RSS subs as follows:

Choose the high fidelity version for home systems when you are looking for clean, low bass and are not restricted by cabinet size.
Choose the high output version for automotive applications or for equalized high-power home subwoofers.

Their T/S parameters and power handling capacity varies for the proper use. The HO version will handle 60% more power but won't dig as deep in response.

 

[Verdinut]

Produced for or marketed for? Sure, some aren't suited for the additional volume or for home theater type extension, but there are some drivers that cross over....

ps Neither driver particularly appeals to me, more an SI fan.

You're an SI fan. They are subwoofing beasts! I guess you own at least one of their subs. Which model?

 

[lovinthehd]

You're an SI fan. They are subwoofing beasts! I guess you own at least one of their subs. Which model?

I have 5 SI HT18D2s.....but the HST 18mkIIIs or the HS-24 sure are nice .

 

[Din61]

Oh don't think we're that different in the last four years at least

Haha! I know...