China now a Clear and Present Danger

[Irvrobinson]

The Democrats control the house, the senate, and the White House, yet there still isn't much we can will do?

Fixed that for ya...

 

[highfigh]

US cyber attacks would be public, because other countries are always looking to point out that the US does this too, to help justify their bad behavior. And the USG typically leaks what it does anyway, to get control of the narrative. For example, the 2019 cyber attack against Iran for attacking Saudi oil fields:

Exclusive: U.S. carried out secret cyber strike on Iran in wake of Saudi oil attack: officials

The United States carried out a secret cyber operation against Iran in the wake of the Sept. 14 attacks on Saudi Arabia's oil facilities, which Washington and Riyadh blame on Tehran, two U.S. officials have told Reuters.

www.reuters.com

And then there's the famous Stuxnet attack on Iran centrifuges over a decade ago, but you can search around for a long time and you will see very few reports of cyber attacks by USG agencies.

But the evidence shows the US is mostly the country attacked, not the attacker. And we're so lame that we still have completely inadequate defenses. Why is critical infrastructure on the public internet? So dumb...

A better question- why is the public able to use the same IT protocols that were developed by DARPA, for official networking?

Something should have been changed, to keep the two separate.

 

[highfigh]

China lies, cheats and steals- it's what they do. Why is this new to so many people? They're trying to take possession of the South China Sea and have been harassing or sinking foreign ships that are in international water, they don't honor intellectual rights, their human rights violations are despicable and NO country or international organization is trying to stop them.

They should never have been granted Favored Trading Partner status.

Where are Biden and the Sec'y of State on this? If the government is unaware of this hack, we're totally screwed.

 

[John Parks]

China lies, cheats and steals- it's what they do. Why is this new to so many people? They're trying to take possession of the South China Sea and have been harassing or sinking foreign ships that are in international water, they don't honor intellectual rights, their human rights violations are despicable and NO country or international organization is trying to stop them.

They should never have been granted Favored Trading Partner status.

Where are Biden and the Sec'y of State on this? If the government is unaware of this hack, we're totally screwed.

But, but, but... Orange Man Bad!

 

[Irvrobinson]

A better question- why is the public able to use the same IT protocols that were developed by DARPA, for official networking?

Something should have been changed, to keep the two separate.

The problem isn't that public infrastructure and government networks use the same protocols (TCP and IP), the original protocols did not include security features. It is that government and infrastructure facilities use the public internet, I assume to reduce costs. That the public internet is used for critical facilities is the quandary. It is like giving bad actors a multi-lane highway through the front gate.

 

[shadyJ]

so your saying you trust the Chinese ….. lets just pray Biden doesn't get cozy with the bastards.

I don't trust the Chinese government in the slightest, but I don't think Biden does either. I trust Republicans even less than the Chinese government though, or at least I trust that the GOP is a greater threat to the US than the Chinese government.

 

[cpp]

Yeah... but the Cyber Command is directed against military targets. Are you saying you believe the USG is targeting commercial and public infrastructure targets, which is the subject of this thread?

Well I do know they do not target "electrical companies', hospitals. Everything else is fair game unlike Russia and China and North Korea.

 

[Mr._Clark]

Fixed that for ya...

I didn't watch a lot of Biden's campaign speeches, but I don't remember him saying anything like "China has been hacking the U.S. for years, including during the 2008 presidential election and under the Obama administration. It's all the Republican's fault, but there isn't really much any of us Democrats can do about it. But, hey, vote for me!"

 

[highfigh]

The problem isn't that public infrastructure and government networks use the same protocols (TCP and IP), the original protocols did not include security features. It is that government and infrastructure facilities use the public internet, I assume to reduce costs. That the public internet is used for critical facilities is the quandary. It is like giving bad actors a multi-lane highway through the front gate.

They had no security because it wasn't accessible without a computer and the only ones who had them were military, industrial, educational and research facilities, so it wasn't really needed. Once the secret was out, anyone with an agenda was going to start screwing with someone. They need a 'darker than dark' web but that wouldn't work, either- people can't shut up and they'll do anything for money.

 

[highfigh]

But, but, but... Orange Man Bad!

Clinton signed the Favored Trading Partner agreement and someone has been asleep behind the wheel for far too long.

 

[Irvrobinson]

They had no security because it wasn't accessible without a computer and the only ones who had them were military, industrial, educational and research facilities, so it wasn't really needed. Once the secret was out, anyone with an agenda was going to start screwing with someone. They need a 'darker than dark' web but that wouldn't work, either- people can't shut up and they'll do anything for money.

If it doesn't have a public connection, it can't be hacked except by an inside job.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I trust that the GOP is a greater threat to the US than the Chinese government.

I'm not a supporter of the Trump wing of the GOP either, but this is just dumb.

 

[highfigh]

If it doesn't have a public connection, it can't be hacked except by an inside job.

Exactly, and how do spies gain access? They get a job as an insider.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Exactly, and how do spies gain access? They get a job as an insider.

That's not how that vast majority of hacks are done. Government systems are on the public internet.

 

[Mr._Clark]

I don't trust the Chinese government in the slightest, but I don't think Biden does either. I trust Republicans even less than the Chinese government though, or at least I trust that the GOP is a greater threat to the US than the Chinese government.

I suspect that would warm Putin's heart:

>>>Foreign interference in U.S. elections likely focuses, in part, on creating distrust among Americans, with paralyzing the American political process as its main goal, according to a new RAND Corporation report. . . .

Reports indicate that Russian-backed attempts to create discord in the United States have made use of existing movements across the American political ideological spectrum and worked to create new ones. Reports show that online Russian trolls have targeted both white supremacists and civil rights activists.

“Successful information efforts try to sow deep divisions between groups of people to generate a perception of 'us' versus 'them' that will trigger strong reactions in people,” Posard said. “The ultimate goal is to reduce the probability that groups of people may find common ground on issues of public concern.”<<<

Foreign Interference in U.S. Elections Focuses on Cultivating Distrust to Reduce Political Consensus

A RAND report details how recent efforts by Russia to meddle in U.S. elections are based largely on strategies developed by the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

www.rand.org

 

[GO-NAD!]

If it doesn't have a public connection, it can't be hacked except by an inside job.

I read a piece about the attack on the Iranian nuclear facility a while ago. If memory serves me correctly, the facility was not connected to the internet. Apparently, infected thumb-drives were strategically "misplaced" around the site and at least one was found by an employee, who plugged it into his work station...et voila...oversped centrifuges.

 

[highfigh]

That's not how that vast majority of hacks are done. Government systems are on the public internet.

People in the Defense Department, State Department- all kinds of places have had moles and they don't always need to hack their way in from the outside.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I read a piece about the attack on the Iranian nuclear facility a while ago. If memory serves me correctly, the facility was not connected to the internet. Apparently, infected thumb-drives were strategically "misplaced" around the site and at least one was found by an employee, who plugged it into his work station...et voila...oversped centrifuges.

I hadn't read that. An inside job in Iran is difficult to believe though. If caught you might literally lose your head.

 

[highfigh]

I read a piece about the attack on the Iranian nuclear facility a while ago. If memory serves me correctly, the facility was not connected to the internet. Apparently, infected thumb-drives were strategically "misplaced" around the site and at least one was found by an employee, who plugged it into his work station...et voila...oversped centrifuges.

How are cell phones and computers using WiFi hacked? Scanning and decrypting the transmission. Phones can be hacked, so even if someone is at a cafe or some other place where they use a weakly-secured network, it's possible.

 

[Irvrobinson]

People in the Defense Department, State Department- all kinds of places have had moles and they don't always need to hack their way in from the outside.

I think you watch too many movies.