Hunter21

Hunter21

Audioholic
I'm torn on what dual subs to get next. HSU VTF-15H mk2, the SVS SB 4000, rythmik F18, or the PSA S1512. I keep leaning toward the HSU for the price and the volume it puts out. Would I be making a good choice? Or would one of the others make a better choice and why?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
You mean PB4000? FV18? V1512? Why ported for the Hsu and sealed for the rest?
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
The Hsu's ports give it a big advantage. This is kind of an apples-to-oranges comparison. If you are interested in deep bass, none of those other subs can keep up with the Hsu due to a major difference in the basic design.
 
Hunter21

Hunter21

Audioholic
What would you say to the ported designs of the other subs, say if I decided to work more OT to make up the difference?
 
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snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
The HSU VTF3 mk5 is similar to the VTF15 so that’s another option.
 
Blue2kid3

Blue2kid3

Audioholic Intern
I would go dual monoprice subs just to confuse you more lol
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Why is that? Just wondering
Well truthfully the HSU’s are crazy good value. And I think they’d be a great choice. But, also one of the subs you asked about was the f18. I’m not a fan of sealed subs, but for 129 bucks more, the FV18 will outperform the f18 quite handily. It will outperform the HSU as well but is more expensive, and you can get two HSU’s for that price. That’s great value. So I guess my question is what is total budget?
 
Hunter21

Hunter21

Audioholic
Well truthfully the HSU’s are crazy good value. And I think they’d be a great choice. But, also one of the subs you asked about was the f18. I’m not a fan of sealed subs, but for 129 bucks more, the FV18 will outperform the f18 quite handily. It will outperform the HSU as well but is more expensive, and you can get two HSU’s for that price. That’s great value. So I guess my question is what is total budget?
Best bang for the buck but I also want loud and deep bass, so if it's significantly louder I would expell the extra cash, if it's only a little bit louder prob not
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Best bang for the buck but I also want loud and deep bass, so if it's significantly louder I would expell the extra cash, if it's only a little bit louder prob not
I may have missed. How big is the room?
That’s probably the first thing to deal with.

Going from memory, the fv15hp, is worth a couple db over the HSU. 3db would basically sound twice as loud.(every 3db increase is perceived as a doubling of volume).
I also know the fv18 has considerably better numbers than the fv15hp.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
You can pull up at data-bass.com the old VTF15H vs a Rythmik FV15HP (or FV18).....
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I may have missed. How big is the room?
That’s probably the first thing to deal with.

Going from memory, the fv15hp, is worth a couple db over the HSU. 3db would basically sound twice as loud.(every 3db increase is perceived as a doubling of volume).
I also know the fv18 has considerably better numbers than the fv15hp.
The FV15HP has about a 2 to 4dB advantage at 25 Hz and below versus the VTF-15h mk2 since it is tuned a bit deeper, however they are about the same at 30Hz and above. The FV18 only has an advantage over the FV15HP below 30 Hz. All these subs are about the same at 30hz and above, but that is where most bass content really is.
 
Hunter21

Hunter21

Audioholic
The FV15HP has about a 2 to 4dB advantage at 25 Hz and below versus the VTF-15h mk2 since it is tuned a bit deeper, however they are about the same at 30Hz and above. The FV18 only has an advantage over the FV15HP below 30 Hz. All these subs are about the same at 30hz and above, but that is where most bass content really is.
What about the f18 sealed vs the vft15h I would all ways go sealed versus ported usually due to port chuffing, but if I'm not missing out as much the vft15 is hard to beat. Just that port chuffing.
 
Hunter21

Hunter21

Audioholic
What about the f18 sealed vs the vft15h I would all ways go sealed versus ported usually due to port chuffing, but if I'm not missing out as much the vft15 is hard to beat. Just that port chuffing.
And is that 4db worth it for double the price if I was to go ported? If not my choice would be probably between the sealed f18 or the ported vft15 just do to the price difference if I were to go that high in price I would want sealed do to if it port chuffs I won't be as happy than if the Hsu port chuffs I won't mind as much because I didint pay as much, and I've even heard SVS pb16s port chuff
 
Hunter21

Hunter21

Audioholic
I may have missed. How big is the room?
That’s probably the first thing to deal with.

Going from memory, the fv15hp, is worth a couple db over the HSU. 3db would basically sound twice as loud.(every 3db increase is perceived as a doubling of volume).
I also know the fv18 has considerably better numbers than the fv15hp.
Room right now is 19x19x8, but when I move it'll probably be a regular sized living room bout 25x20x10, going to try to get higher celings
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
What about the f18 sealed vs the vft15h I would all ways go sealed versus ported usually due to port chuffing, but if I'm not missing out as much the vft15 is hard to beat. Just that port chuffing.
Nearly any ported sub can be made to chuff if you push it hard enough. On the other hand, any sealed sub can be driven past Xmax and run into heavy distortion or even bottoming out when pushed hard enough. The difference is that ported subs will not run into chuffing nearly as quickly as the sealed sub reaches its Xmax limits.
And is that 4db worth it for double the price if I was to go ported? If not my choice would be probably between the sealed f18 or the ported vft15 just do to the price difference if I were to go that high in price I would want sealed do to if it port chuffs I won't be as happy than if the Hsu port chuffs I won't mind as much because I didint pay as much, and I've even heard SVS pb16s port chuff
If you want to avoid port chuffing, one thing that can help is to look at port diameter vs port tuning. A smaller diameter port with a deep tuning frequency will chuff a lot sooner than a larger diameter port with a higher tuning frequency. The SVS PB16-Ultra and the FV18 both have three 3.5" ports. The VTF-15h MK2 has two triangular ports that have the equivalent cross-sectional area of 4.5" ports. If you add up the total area of these ports, three 3.5" ports have about the same area as two 4.5" ports, which thirty square inches. However, since the FV18 is tuned to deeper frequencies than the PB16-Ultra or VTF-15H mk2, it may be more susceptible to chuffing. But the shape of the port makes a difference too, and we don't really how well a triangular port fares against a round port. My guess is that the triangular shape doesn't really help. However, It has been shown that a deeper and more gradual port flare like what the VTF-15H mk2 has is better in thwarting turbulence than shallow flares at the tips of cylindrical ports like the PB16-Ultra and FV18 have. So that might help to offset any disadvantage that a triangular port has. What is more is that the VTF-15H mk2 and PB16-Ultra ports do not have any bends in them which will help to discourage port turbulence. One thing you can do to deter port turbulence when you have a bend is to have a larger cross section at the bend. The only subs I have seen which do that are Hsu subs, and I think Dr. Hsu actually holds a patent on how to do that optimally.

I would say that if you really want to avoid port chuffing, whatever sub you get, run it with all ports open and set to the corresponding amp setting. My guess is that the VTF-15H mk2 is less likely to chuff than the FV18 if you run these subs with all ports open and you push them hard.

Something else to keep in mind is that chuffing can serve as a warning when you are pushing the sub too hard. With a sealed sub, you might not notice any warning until the sub bottoms out. The problem is that bottoming out the driver can lead to its destruction. If you run into chuffing a lot, at least that is a sign that you may want more headroom that doesn't put the sub in danger.
 

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