FTC to Kill Amplifier Rule: Help us Protect it by Feb 16th, 2021!

Should the FTC Amplifier Rule Stay Active?

  • Yes. Let's hold manufacturers accountable with Truth in Power

    Votes: 46 90.2%
  • Doesn't Matter. It's never been enforced anway.

    Votes: 3 5.9%
  • No. Let manufacturers boast claims to feed my fragile ego.

    Votes: 2 3.9%

  • Total voters
    51
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Well, what happens when a company refuses to pay the fine (say they have technical justification)?
They get fined more until the govt freezes their bank accounts and takes their money whether they want to give it or not? Suspend whatever license they need to do business?
 
jbiz42

jbiz42

Junior Audioholic
They get fined more until the govt freezes their bank accounts and takes their money whether they want to give it or not? Suspend whatever license they need to do business?
So theft isn’t violence?

And if they continue to do business without a license?

Where does the constitution permit the federal government to do any of this?
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
So theft isn’t violence?

And if they continue to do business without a license?

Where does the constitution permit the federal government to do any of this?
Wow. You're like dealing with an apologist. Just keep moving the goal posts. Yes if you continue breaking the law you will eventually end up in jail. That goes for anything anywhere. It can happen if you don't pay a speeding ticket too... Are you suggesting we shouldn't have any laws or standards?

No, all theft is not violence. There is nothing physically involved with freezing a company's bank account. If you got hacked would you tell everyone you're the victim of a violent attack? Seek counseling? Claim PTSD? Lol
 
RichB

RichB

Audioholic Field Marshall
The value of the FTC for amplification specifications is the conditions for the test were standardized.
Clearly amps do have to have FTC ratings to be sold, because many do not.

- Rich
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Less government regulation. Get your fat government ass out of amp marketing. There are plenty of private electronics standardization association entities which can guide and direct consumers.
And, what enforcement powers do those private groups have? How effective are they? Whose interest are they serving?
FTC is not in the marketing business, FYI but in enforcement of standards.
Maybe FAA should be handed over to a private organization too?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
We should just stamp "buyer beware" on all products and services. :D
 
jbiz42

jbiz42

Junior Audioholic
We should just stamp "buyer beware" on all products and services. :D
Or you could move to a country with more government oversight. They tend to be much worse off, but hey, it would satisfy your fetish for authoritarianism.
 
jbiz42

jbiz42

Junior Audioholic
How is a company being fined for misleading advertisement violent? Based on your thinking, speed limits need to be withdrawn, drinking and driving should be encouraged and lets all buy more assault rifles because there must isnt enough of them in the hands of the citizens to take care of all the schools.
You clearly haven't thought this through. More hyperbolic straw men; this was addressed earlier. Maybe read first.
 
jbiz42

jbiz42

Junior Audioholic
Wow. You're like dealing with an apologist. Just keep moving the goal posts. Yes if you continue breaking the law you will eventually end up in jail. That goes for anything anywhere. It can happen if you don't pay a speeding ticket too... Are you suggesting we shouldn't have any laws or standards?

No, all theft is not violence. There is nothing physically involved with freezing a company's bank account. If you got hacked would you tell everyone you're the victim of a violent attack? Seek counseling? Claim PTSD? Lol
No, the goal post of violence was never moved. You just didn't think all the way through it. That's the problem with state intervention; people think it would be "nice" for the government to control all kinds of things, not considering (or observing) the consequences. This is why our prison population is larger than China's, with a large portion for victimless crimes.

Not suggesting no laws, and I am a huge proponent of standards. I just think that as much as possible should be done privately. In this case, think of something like the Goodhousekeeping seal of approval. Why does the government have to be involved with audio specifications? It makes no sense.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
Or you could move to a country with more government oversight. They tend to be much worse off, but hey, it would satisfy your fetish for authoritarianism.
Oversight isn't the issue there, it's who is doing it. Yes, our government is also a government, but the intent (or what should be the intent) of oversight is to protect the consumer. Just because antifreeze tastes sweet doesn't mean companies should be allowed to use it in candy. Oversight exists in an attempt to stop unethical business practices, at least in this context.

Bring on the "that's where it starts" arguments...
 
jbiz42

jbiz42

Junior Audioholic
Oversight isn't the issue there, it's who is doing it. Yes, our government is also a government, but the intent (or what should be the intent) of oversight is to protect the consumer. Just because antifreeze tastes sweet doesn't mean companies should be allowed to use it in candy. Oversight exists in an attempt to stop unethical business practices, at least in this context.

Bring on the "that's where it starts" arguments...
Why do you assert this is the role of government?

Why do you assume that government action actually stops unethical business practices?
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
You clearly haven't thought this through. More hyperbolic straw men; this was addressed earlier. Maybe read first.
You clearly live with a huge chip on your shoulder when it comes to government involvement. Out of all the "chaff" you been spouting, the single grain of truth you posted is that the rules need to be updated to keep up with technology. The rest however is paranoid thinking on your part.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The enforcement is where violence comes in. But there are so many holes in the rules that it doesn't force consistency. If a company rightfully disagrees with the obsolete or misguided rules and wishes to specify/rate in a better way, it will be stopped (by force if necessary). So it reduces improvements and innovation with regard to specifications, and thus inherently affects transactions done on that basis.
You need to read the definition of 'violence'.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
We should just stamp "buyer beware" on all products and services. :D
Because stamping 'Caveat emptor' would result in people seeing it and asking "What does that mean?", someone else saying "I don't know" and the first one asking "Do you take plastic?" after deciding that it isn't important.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I haven't heard of anything having to do with their enforcement. But how do you think enforcement is accomplished (whether through another federal organization or not)? A strongly-worded rebuke?

Just because people are afraid to stand up to their obsolete and ineffective regulations doesn't mean there is no violence; coercion and threat of violence are still violence.
So, you haven't heard of anything to do with the FTC's enforcement, but you leap to thinking it would be violent? Don't be a victim.

Words aren't violence, except in the minds of those who are so weak that it amounts to emotional collapse. A threat isn't violence, either.

Using some obscure word association to meet your needs in this thread doesn't make a rule or actions that result from violating rules meet the definition of the word-

 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
No, the goal post of violence was never moved. You just didn't think all the way through it. That's the problem with state intervention; people think it would be "nice" for the government to control all kinds of things, not considering (or observing) the consequences. This is why our prison population is larger than China's, with a large portion for victimless crimes.

Not suggesting no laws, and I am a huge proponent of standards. I just think that as much as possible should be done privately. In this case, think of something like the Goodhousekeeping seal of approval. Why does the government have to be involved with audio specifications? It makes no sense.
The violence that comes with those 'victimless crimes', assuming you mean the illegal drug trade, doesn't make it 'victimless'. How many people need to die in drive-by shootings that come with shytty aim, crossfire, firing into the wrong house or car, etc for you to see that it's far from victimless? What about the ones who die because someone sold drugs laced with something like Fentanyl, without telling anyone or the Heroin was stronger than expected? Try selling that crap to the families of people who OD'd.

Should we let those convicted of fraud roam free, possibly screwing people by selling things that aren't as described? Could be any product or service, but let's use 'fraud' as it applies to this thread. or does their crime not fit your definition of 'violence'?

The government isn't involved with audio specs, per se, as its main focus for the FTC, audio specs just happen to enter the discussion because, in defining trade practices, the information used by people to make a buying decision for audio equipment needs to be accurate and when a manufacturer or seller goes off the rails and makes it up as they go along, people don't get what they wanted.

I get the impression that if you received a list of requirements that came from engineers, you would question their validity.
 
T

trochetier

Audioholic
How the hell did we get from a straight forward thread on amplifier spec regulation review into this weird anti-govt debate? Govt. has a role to play in ensuring certain standards are maintained otherwise we have chaos and worse.

I think laws and regulations should be up for review, update or sunset every X many years. The review should be written into each law and regulation. Technology change, society change, value systems change, the laws and regulations should also keep up with the changes. Otherwise we end up with outdated and often contradictory layers that become difficult to interpret and comply and also muddled due to differing contradictory opinions by various courts creating even more confusion.
 
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