FTC to Kill Amplifier Rule: Help us Protect it by Feb 16th, 2021!

[jbiz42]

Answer my question.

Mine was first; support your assertion.

PS: I still see PMPO, Wrms, and other such drivel.

 

[head_unit]

the more "regulated" power supply approach adopted by HK in the past did not do well on test benches, their two channel output typically measured so much lower than Denon, Marantz, Pioneer etc., that they also output less under the 5 or 7 channel conditions. This seemed to indicate in such balancing act, the overall outcome is worse.

Well I don't think that's a valid conclusion since HK was always low on the watts-per-dollar derby anyway-I don't think we can take them as a cost proxy for the regulated approach.
- When I worked for a giant autosound company, unregulated got you bigger numbers, albeit in a different technical scenario.
- And all that is when tested into RESISTORS. Into real speakers, I suspect a non-drooping design would do better than the poorly regulated into real speakers under dynamic conditions. Tricky to test and prove or disprove, however, and impossible to cost out unless you're actually working on such projects. Hmm, my old business partner talks to a lot of factories, I'll have to ask him...

 

[head_unit]

By regulating, they inherently decide what customers can and can't buy.

Yes in a way, but I don't think that really applies here. All manner of amps will surely stay available regardless of the wording of the Rule or lack of the rule. All an enforced rule would do is force companies to rate the same way, so consumers could compare apples to apples. It's not like requiring that all receivers have to have DAB, or they all have to have DACs inside or something.

 

[highfigh]

Agreed that they said this, but it's always prudent to check to see what actually happened (the weak point of all "well-intentioned" government programs. The anti-trust actions tend to have the opposite effect (like how the drug war increased the drug trade).

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The company that brought you that wince-inducing "fake news" promo is not a "monopoly," and cracking down on it will not defend the free press.

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Tell people they can't have something and it becomes the thing they want more than air.

 

[highfigh]

What's meant by this is that if two parties voluntarily transact for an amplifier which doesn't meet the government criteria (which has been shown to be obsolete and insufficient anyway), they FTC will stop them, using violence if necessary. That is just not called for.

Have you EVER heard of the FTC using violence? EVER?

 

[highfigh]

Well I don't think that's a valid conclusion since HK was always low on the watts-per-dollar derby anyway-I don't think we can take them as a cost proxy for the regulated approach.
- When I worked for a giant autosound company, unregulated got you bigger numbers, albeit in a different technical scenario.
- And all that is when tested into RESISTORS. Into real speakers, I suspect a non-drooping design would do better than the poorly regulated into real speakers under dynamic conditions. Tricky to test and prove or disprove, however, and impossible to cost out unless you're actually working on such projects. Hmm, my old business partner talks to a lot of factories, I'll have to ask him...

I still have my Rockford-Fosgate binder with Power Cube results from various amplifier models and companies- maybe they could use that since it included output with capacitive and inductive loads.

Who did you work for in car audio?

I remember Rockford being great for headroom because they had a loose supply and PPI being one of the tightest.

 

[3db]

Mine was first; support your assertion.

PS: I still see PMPO, Wrms, and other such drivel.

You responded to my question with a question. Im guessing by your stalling technique that you havent.

 

[cpp]

If you're caught fudging specs they drag you out into the street and publicly beat you with a stick to send a message.

LOL, just like chevy vs ford

 

[RichB]

IMO, standards are good and not the same as regulatory and auditing. For the record, I doubt that any government organization is underfunded.

What was the outcome at the FTC?

- Rich

 

[highfigh]

IMO, standards are good and not the same as regulatory and auditing. For the record, I doubt that any government organization is underfunded.

What was the outcome at the FTC?

- Rich

The fat lady hasn't sung, yet.

 

[RichB]

The fat lady hasn't sung, yet.

Perhaps the FTC will be shifting regulations to guard against body shaming.

- Rich

 

[Pogre]

Perhaps the FTC will be shifting regulations to guard against body shaming.

- Rich

And enforce it with violence!

 

[highfigh]

Perhaps the FTC will be shifting regulations to guard against body shaming.

- Rich

Not their gig. That falls under the control of the erst of the government.

(little kid)- "Why are you out of breath?"
(parent)- "Shutup and help me out of my chair".

 

[jbiz42]

You responded to my question with a question. Im guessing by your stalling technique that you havent.

Not sure what question; I had asked you to support your assertion:

"If you look back in history before the FTC was mandated, you would quickly realize that your statement is incorrect."

Still haven't seen anything, as well as any support of your previous assertions.

 

[jbiz42]

Have you EVER heard of the FTC using violence? EVER?

I haven't heard of anything having to do with their enforcement. But how do you think enforcement is accomplished (whether through another federal organization or not)? A strongly-worded rebuke?

Just because people are afraid to stand up to their obsolete and ineffective regulations doesn't mean there is no violence; coercion and threat of violence are still violence.

 

[jbiz42]

Tell people they can't have something and it becomes the thing they want more than air.

I would like to have effective industry standards based on science from this century rather than obsolete one-size-fits-all heavy-handed regulation.

 

[jbiz42]

Yes in a way, but I don't think that really applies here. All manner of amps will surely stay available regardless of the wording of the Rule or lack of the rule. All an enforced rule would do is force companies to rate the same way, so consumers could compare apples to apples. It's not like requiring that all receivers have to have DAB, or they all have to have DACs inside or something.

The enforcement is where violence comes in. But there are so many holes in the rules that it doesn't force consistency. If a company rightfully disagrees with the obsolete or misguided rules and wishes to specify/rate in a better way, it will be stopped (by force if necessary). So it reduces improvements and innovation with regard to specifications, and thus inherently affects transactions done on that basis.

 

[Pogre]

I haven't heard of anything having to do with their enforcement. But how do you think enforcement is accomplished (whether through another federal organization or not)? A strongly-worded rebuke?

Just because people are afraid to stand up to their obsolete and ineffective regulations doesn't mean there is no violence; coercion and threat of violence are still violence.

Fines..? That may be violent to your bank account I s'pose...

 

[3db]

I haven't heard of anything having to do with their enforcement. But how do you think enforcement is accomplished (whether through another federal organization or not)? A strongly-worded rebuke?

Just because people are afraid to stand up to their obsolete and ineffective regulations doesn't mean there is no violence; coercion and threat of violence are still violence.

How is a company being fined for misleading advertisement violent? Based on your thinking, speed limits need to be withdrawn, drinking and driving should be encouraged and lets all buy more assault rifles because there must isnt enough of them in the hands of the citizens to take care of all the schools.

 

[jbiz42]

Fines..? That may be violent to your bank account I s'pose...

Well, what happens when a company refuses to pay the fine (say they have technical justification)?