Best subwoofer location

[davidsvehla]

Hello,

I am trying to find the best location for my subwoofer and can't decide what is a better place. I already read and listen almost all the information about sub positioning I tried to find the best position by ears and then I made a few measurements to verify it. I have found the two best locations but I can't decide which is better. The first location has better bass response but worse falloff of highs. The second position has better highs but a far worse bass response. The room is without any treatment (this will be the next step). Both measurements were made after YPAO calibration (I tried it also before and it was similar). Thank you in advance for any help.

The setup is:
Yamaha RX-V6A
Q Acoustics 3020i
Q Acoustics 3090Ci
Q Acoustics Q B12 SUB
(surrounds 3010i will follow)



Green line is SUB position 1 (next to door) and blue line is position 2 (behind couch)

 

[TankTop5]

If you run two of those it will smooth out the response and give you 3db gain in volume which you desperately need.

 

[ryanosaur]

Well, the thing you won't want to hear is that the Q Acoustics isn't the best Sub on the planet: it will never dig very deep with any authority and your room measurements bear that out.
Truthfully, looking at your graphs (1/12 smoothing is best), I would choose the Green Response. The overall curve is pretty good, it has a slower rolloff at the expense of about 4Hz of added extension. You can see though that the Sub is done, for all intent and purpose, at about 20Hz/72dB (being roughly the F10 point in that measurement.
Regarding your statement about the highs, I don't see anything to complain about.
Considering the overall sweep you show, I'm assuming this includes your mains, too?

Anyway... I would choose the Green and be done.

If the point comes that you want to upgrade, the Sub would be the weakest link in your system. This is where I would focus my efforts in upgrading.

Cheers!

 

[ryanosaur]

If you run two of those it will smooth out the response and give you 3db gain in volume which you desperately need.

I agree that Duals are always better. Not because of the modest increase in output, but because it will help even out the bass response.
I would not recommend wasting money on a second Q Acoustics Sub, though.
Stepping up to better woofage will do both: greater output, deeper extension with meaningful presence. Two matching better Subs will provide smoother performance (and yes, a meager dB boost, as well.)

 

[nathan_h]

I agree that the GREEN position is the better of the two.

If you decide to go with dual subs, since you only have one row of seating, and can pull the couch of the back wall, your room is well configured to allow easy and effective placement of subs along the front wall at 1/4 and 3/4 along the wall, which will give you nice consistent bass across the couch:

http://imgur.com/QYxrsbV

 

[TankTop5]

I agree that Duals are always better. Not because of the modest increase in output, but because it will help even out the bass response.
I would not recommend wasting money on a second Q Acoustics Sub, though.
Stepping up to better woofage will do both: greater output, deeper extension with meaningful presence. Two matching better Subs will provide smoother performance (and yes, a meager dB boost, as well.)

I didn’t want to knock his system, perhaps it was chosen for aesthetics over performance. If it’s budget the OP should look at a complete 5.1 system from RSL if he can still return the Q.

 

[davidsvehla]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, the measurements are made also with mains. I understand two subs is better but for now I want to go with only one. About the QA sub. I tried JAMO 803 system and didn't like the sound so I went with QA which sounds great for me and I (and my girlfriend) also like the look of them. I thought it is better to buy all speakers from same line and manufacture so that was the reason I pick the B12 sub. Also I read few good reviews for it:

Q Acoustics QB12 review

Understanding neighbours required for this powerful sub

www.whathifi.com

Q Acoustics Q B12 Subwoofer Review

Q Acoustics expands its subwoofer range with the new Q B12, which features a 12-inch driver to provide a more solid bass foundation to the company’s Concept and 3000i Series speakers.

www.avforums.com

Q Acoustics Q B12 Subwoofer Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com

There's a new Bass Bin on the block! Q Acoustics has gone and released a brand-new subwoofer, the Q B12 which is the first in a new range of subwoofers.

hometheaterhifi.com

Also I forget to say that the sub is set only for 50% volume in "blue line position" and about 70% in "green line position". But I want to first find best spot for flat response and than go higher with volume.

I can return it but I am not sure if another sub will perform better in my room. I first order the smaller one QA 3060S and when I did measurements I thought it isn't powerful enough so I switch it for the bigger one B12. But when I placed the new sub on same location (behind a couch ) I was shocked to see that the frequency response of the two subs was almost identical. So I thing the room has much stronger influence for the sub performance.

Red line is QB12 and green line is 3060S

 

[XEagleDriver]

I thought it is better to buy all speakers from same line and manufacture so that was the reason

A common misperception that is completely false in relation to subs.
XEagleDriver

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[nathan_h]

I can return it but I am not sure if another sub will perform better in my room. I first order the smaller one QA 3060S and when I did measurements I thought it isn't powerful enough so I switch it for the bigger one B12. But when I placed the new sub on same location (behind a couch ) I was shocked to see that the frequency response of the two subs was almost identical. So I thing the room has much stronger influence for the sub performance.

Yes the room makes a BIG impact and it is good that you are measuring to figure out the best location.

The Q sub is "fine". The problem is that you are paying almost twice as much as you need to for the performance that it offers. (By performance, I mean deep bass and output capability. The room response won't change with a better sub. Room response is based on location of sub, listener, and EQ.)

I don't know where you are located in the world, but in the US, one could get arguably better performance from an SVS SB1000, which is almost 40% less in terms of price. Maybe where you like, the Q is cheaper than in the US.

And, of course, if you get a ported sub, you'll get even more performance for the price -- but the box will be twice as large.

(And as mentioned above, there is no performance and no compatability reason to get a sub from the same person that makes your speaker. Usually, dedicated subwoofer companies offer a better value/performance choice.)

 

[ryanosaur]

Concur: most speaker companies do not make good subwoofers, and there is zero reason for brand matching Sub to Front 3.

I don’t intend to come off as harshing OPs system. I’ve generally heard good things about QA speakers. Merely stating the truth that different Subs will be a far superior investment.

 

[Pogre]

Yup. Gonna need better subwoofage to make that better. If you didn't tell me I wouldn't know those were sub sweeps and assume just speakers.

All those reviews you linked, did any of them include any third party measurements? Can't trust a lot of online reviews, no matter how convincing they can sound. You need objective measurements along with the rest for a more complete story.

 

[Mikado463]

try the latest 'dance' ............

Crawling for Bass - Subwoofer Placement Tips

Do the Subwoofer Crawl. It's the easiest way to find the proper placement location for your subwoofer to get the best performance and sound.

www.audioholics.com

 

[davidsvehla]

Thanks to all for the feedback. I live in Czech Republic (middle of the Europe) and the prices of US products are completely different here. For example lot of people recommend Klipsch Cinema 600 (soundbar with 12" sub) which you can find in US for around 300$ and for the price its great value. But here the same set costs around 700$!

one could get arguably better performance from an SVS SB1000, which is almost 40% less in terms of price

SVS SB1000 costs here 760$ and I bought the QA B12 for 550$. But I understand I don't need to stick to QA subs and I will try to find something better. But it will be a little bit difficult to find a good sub in mate white color to match the fronts. Also something smaller than 40cm (15,7 inch) width to fit next to the door.

If you didn't tell me I wouldn't know those were sub sweeps and assume just speakers.

You are not far from it. I tried few sweeps without subs and it wasn't much different. But when I am watching some movies with explosions you can definitely hear the sub.

Red line is B12 sub (behind the couch), green is only 3020i L+R.


I don't know if this is some bug or what but when I make AVR calibration with YPAO mic, the AVR sets the main bookshelf speakers (64 Hz – 30 kHz) as large and it don't send any signal to the sub. I need to set the speakers manually to small and crossover to 80hz and than it goes to sub. It does this with the smaller 3060S and also with big B12. Could it be something with cable? I have a really shitty one (I don't have good one 6m long).

 

[davidsvehla]

try the latest 'dance' ............

Crawling for Bass - Subwoofer Placement Tips

Do the Subwoofer Crawl. It's the easiest way to find the proper placement location for your subwoofer to get the best performance and sound.

www.audioholics.com

I did this. The best spot was behind the couch. On the contrary the spot on the front wall next to door was weak. But measurement shows that it is a better spot it only needed to boost a little bit volume of the sub. So from my experience, the crawling is a good start but a calibration mic is must-have for precise positioning.

 

[Pogre]

Thanks to all for the feedback. I live in Czech Republic (middle of the Europe) and the prices of US products are completely different here. For example lot of people recommend Klipsch Cinema 600 (soundbar with 12" sub) which you can find in US for around 300$ and for the price its great value. But here the same set costs around 700$!


SVS SB1000 costs here 760$ and I bought the QA B12 for 550$. But I understand I don't need to stick to QA subs and I will try to find something better. But it will be a little bit difficult to find a good sub in mate white color to match the fronts. Also something smaller than 40cm (15,7 inch) width to fit next to the door.


You are not far from it. I tried few sweeps without subs and it wasn't much different. But when I am watching some movies with explosions you can definitely hear the sub.

Red line is B12 sub (behind the couch), green is only 3020i L+R.
View attachment 44628

I don't know if this is some bug or what but when I make AVR calibration with YPAO mic, the AVR sets the main bookshelf speakers (64 Hz – 30 kHz) as large and it don't send any signal to the sub. I need to set the speakers manually to small and crossover to 80hz and than it goes to sub. It does this with the smaller 3060S and also with big B12. Could it be something with cable? I have a really shitty one (I don't have good one 6m long).

A lot of avrs will do that, I'm not sure why. Even full range speakers should be set to small if incorporating a sub tho, imo. Are XTZ subs available to you? They're a euro brand and their subs look pretty good. Might be priced a little better for you too.

SUB 12.17 EDGE

www.xtzsound.com

Also available in white.

 

[ryanosaur]

I think in Europe, BK Elec and XTZ are the two leading Sub options most comparable to our ID Companies here in the States.

 

[ryanosaur]

A lot of avrs will do that, I'm not sure why. Even full range speakers should be set to small if incorporating a sub tho, imo. Are XTZ subs available to you? They're a euro brand and their subs look pretty good. Might be priced a little better for you too.

SUB 12.17 EDGE

www.xtzsound.com

Also available in white.

Jinx!

 

[ryanosaur]

Also: Kudos @davidsvehla for being on the active side of this hobby! We see so many people that want answers but don't understand the basics. That you started off with Measurements is fantastic!
*high-5

 

[Gmoney]

Those Q-speakers are nice, but a good sub really good will set you back 2g;s or more. Your way over on the other side of the World! Welcome to AH!

 

[ryanosaur]

I don't know if this is some bug or what but when I make AVR calibration with YPAO mic, the AVR sets the main bookshelf speakers (64 Hz – 30 kHz) as large and it don't send any signal to the sub

A lot of avrs will do that, I'm not sure why.

It may have been PENG, or another... but it seems I've seen mention that if the AVR's Room Correction detects 40Hz from a speaker, it automatically sets them to Large. I have a pair of speakers that are true 2-way standmounts (6" woofer, .5cu.ft. cabinet), but due to the Bass Shelf alignment of the Cabinet and the Driver, it has usable Bass output down around 34Hz. Audyssey sets them to large every time. FTW