The Dave Ramsey Dichotomy...

[highfigh]

We are talking about FICO based car insurance premium pricing. There are OTHER metrics. If what the insurance companies claim is true: Poor FICO = risky driving then it stands to reason that risky driving = points on a license and claims made therefore other metrics can be used. I'm glad some states have banned the practice.

OK, but everyones' rates are determined by what happens in their zip code and while it includes their driving record, having a great record doesn't eliminate high rates. If I could get USPS to make the zip code where I live different from the part of Milwaukee that it covers, I'd be all over that. My rates are higher than they would be if I lived a mile to the East, in another Zip Code.

 

[highfigh]

I've never seen an insurance company provide 6 months of coverage and THEN bill you.

Me, either but when banks delay payments even when the money is in the account, it can and does happen.

 

[slipperybidness]

Being thrifty is great, and I am in a lot of ways, but the reason to be thrifty is to be able to enjoy the things and experiences that are important to you.

That, I can't argue with. To put it another way, "it's all about priorities".

Yeah, I am thrifty and save a $ in areas that are not important to me, but that allows for spending the saved $ on other areas where the extra $ is well worth it to me.

 

[jinjuku]

I think if you are living within your budget it’s doable to buy cars cash but obviously it takes time to set money aside each month. You might set $1000 a month aside for 36 mo. for example.

This is what I've been doing. My only financed car was in 99'. I kept putting the car payment into an investment account after I paid it off. Took 4 years to pay off, drove it for 13, saved for 9, bought the next two cars used and paid cash. Still driving those and will buy another in about 18-24 months. Also cash.

I'll never finance another vehicle basically.

 

[jinjuku]

I wouldn't consider buying a used car,

I personally wouldn't consider buying a new car. My Infiniti used was a really nice car. I got 70% of the car for 30% of the price. All in $75 a month over the period I owned it. How was someones 6 year old G35 purchased new better than my 6 year old purchased used?

 

[jinjuku]

Me, either but when banks delay payments even when the money is in the account, it can and does happen.

Insurance companies don't provide coverage unless they are 100% paid. It's in the contract. Your dog doesn't hunt.

 

[highfigh]

This is what I've been doing. My only financed car was in 99'. I kept putting the car payment into an investment account after I paid it off. Took 4 years to pay off, drove it for 13, saved for 9, bought the next two cars used and paid cash. Still driving those and will buy another in about 18-24 months. Also cash.

I'll never finance another vehicle basically.

It's also important to avoid the bleeding edge of technology. While people feel cool being the "first on their block" to have something, it can come with a lot of problems.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I personally wouldn't consider buying a new car. My Infiniti used was a really nice car. I got 70% of the car for 30% of the price. All in $75 a month over the period I owned it. How was someones 6 year old G35 purchased new better than my 6 year old purchased used?

To be honest, I wish I was like you, but I'm not. The financial area of my brain knows it would have been a lot smarter not to spend a couple of hundred thousand dollars or so over the years on new cars, buy used cars for some fraction of the cost and invest the rest, but I used to be an "autoholic", and I while I'm somewhat reformed, not completely. At least I don't smoke, drink, or do drugs.

 

[highfigh]

I personally wouldn't consider buying a new car. My Infiniti used was a really nice car. I got 70% of the car for 30% of the price. All in $75 a month over the period I owned it. How was someones 6 year old G35 purchased new better than my 6 year old purchased used?

I haven't crunched the numbers with any accuracy, but I would say that the money I saved by doing my own repairs covered the cost for my past two vehicles- I do know when it's time to have someone else do the work, though. I could have replaced my flex plate, but working on the floor sucks and my friend has been out of town since last Fall, so I couldn't use his lift.

 

[Mikado463]

To be honest, I wish I was like you, but I'm not. The financial area of my brain knows it would have been a lot smarter not to spend a couple of hundred thousand dollars or so over the years on new cars, buy used cars for some fraction of the cost and invest the rest, but I used to be an "autoholic", and I while I'm somewhat reformed, not completely. At least I don't smoke, drink, or do drugs.

Got a chuckle out of Irv's reply, to which I too am guilty. As for the last sentence....... I do enjoy a good cigar, love my Manhattans but stay away from drugs....... at least for now, perhaps as the arthritis gets worse a little cannabis might be in order !

 

[Mr._Clark]

To be honest, I wish I was like you, but I'm not. The financial area of my brain knows it would have been a lot smarter not to spend a couple of hundred thousand dollars or so over the years on new cars, buy used cars for some fraction of the cost and invest the rest, but I used to be an "autoholic", and I while I'm somewhat reformed, not completely. At least I don't smoke, drink, or do drugs.

This is a "Captain Obvious" statement, but the amount lost to depreciation when buying new vehicles depends a lot on the cost of the vehicle. Buying a new $25K car every four years might cost less than a used $50k luxury vehicle every four years. Maintenance for some luxury vehicles is hideously expensive, especially with a higher mileage vehicle.

I've seen some people rationalize buying expensive new vehicles on the basis that the vehicles allegedly hold their value (I'm not saying you did this). When I ran the numbers on it for various vehicles, the expensive new vehicles invariably cost a lot more over time than new economy vehicles, and the expensive new vehicles were a h*ll of a lot more than used economy vehicles.

Having said that, I bought two new vehicles in the past 5 years (one for me and one for my spousal unit). Fortunately, I'm at a point where I can do this without worrying about it too much. As I see it, once you have enough to live on in retirement it becomes a question of what lifestyle you will have now vs the future. It's a balance. That's just me, I will not argue that this is the "right" way to look at it.

I saw an interview with Richard Branson a few years ago. The interviewer asked him what it was like to be super wealthy. He responded "I can only eat one breakfast a day." I realize that's not the whole story, but it is true that a there's not that much additional utility to be gained with most spending above the basics.

Getting even further off topic, my own theory is that most of the "utility" that is gained with expensive clothing, cars, houses, etc. is psychological. It has to do with the "reward" some people get from impressing others, it's not that a $100K vehicle is actually twice as good as a $50K vehicle.

 

[panteragstk]

Working outside in bad weather definitely sucks, but it's really not the manufacturers who want to make it difficult, it's the requirements to produce low emissions and, while an engine with a carb can be efficient, it's not as consistently efficient and trouble-free or as easy to start. Starting a car used to require a technique, known only to the few who drove it- some forgot and killed their starter/battery and flooded the crap out of their engine and now, people expect it to start without thinking about it and not thinking is what people have become good at. Now, lawnmowers and snowblowers are coming with fuel injection- I saw one video and it took two pulls to get his new EFI snowblower to start and my carbureted blowers and mower take one pull. I showed my neighbor how to make starting easier and hers is only a few months old, but by using the manual's instructions, it wouldn't start. I think I pulled the cord 6" before it fired up.

True, things are getting more complex, but that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the fact that to replace the spark plugs in newer engines, the intake manifold has to be removed. That's by design. It's not "difficult" to do, but the odds of a driveway mechanic screwing things up increases significantly when the amount of parts required to be removed increases.

I remember replacing the spark plugs in my wife's 4cyl saturn. It took 3-5 min at most. My old Dodge truck with a 3.7? 3 hours. The engine is set so far back in the bay it's almost impossible to get to the back plugs. It doesn't help that they're set so deep into the head. The new 3.6 motor is even worse. In some Ford diesel trucks you have to lift the cab to change the injectors. Why?

 

[panteragstk]

To be honest, I wish I was like you, but I'm not. The financial area of my brain knows it would have been a lot smarter not to spend a couple of hundred thousand dollars or so over the years on new cars, buy used cars for some fraction of the cost and invest the rest, but I used to be an "autoholic", and I while I'm somewhat reformed, not completely. At least I don't smoke, drink, or do drugs.

When you custom order a car so it's exactly what you want, then buying used won't ever be an option unless you get REALLY lucky. At that point it's about getting what you want, not price.

I've always been a big fan of modifying what you have into what you want. I like the projects though, but as I get older and time gets shorter I find myself paying for a lot of work to be done. I still enjoy turning a wrench though.

 

[Mikado463]

True, things are getting more complex, but that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the fact that to replace the spark plugs in newer engines, the intake manifold has to be removed. That's by design. It's not "difficult" to do, but the odds of a driveway mechanic screwing things up increases significantly when the amount of parts required to be removed increases.

I remember replacing the spark plugs in my wife's 4cyl saturn. It took 3-5 min at most. My old Dodge truck with a 3.7? 3 hours. The engine is set so far back in the bay it's almost impossible to get to the back plugs. It doesn't help that they're set so deep into the head. The new 3.6 motor is even worse. In some Ford diesel trucks you have to lift the cab to change the injectors. Why?

ahhhhh another chuckle for this old fart ! Those of us old enough on here remember when plugs, points, condenser, rotor and distributor cap were changed every 12,000 miles. Now most vehicles it's 100k miles and what's a distributor ? .... LOL !

 

[highfigh]

This is a "Captain Obvious" statement, but the amount lost to depreciation when buying new vehicles depends a lot on the cost of the vehicle. Buying a new $25K car every four years might cost less than a used $50k luxury vehicle every four years. Maintenance for some luxury vehicles is hideously expensive, especially with a higher mileage vehicle.

I've seen some people rationalize buying expensive new vehicles on the basis that the vehicles allegedly hold their value (I'm not saying you did this). When I ran the numbers on it for various vehicles, the expensive new vehicles invariably cost a lot more over time than new economy vehicles, and the expensive new vehicles were a h*ll of a lot more than used economy vehicles.

Having said that, I bought two new vehicles in the past 5 years (one for me and one for my spousal unit). Fortunately, I'm at a point where I can do this without worrying about it too much. As I see it, once you have enough to live on in retirement it becomes a question of what lifestyle you will have now vs the future. It's a balance. That's just me, I will not argue that this is the "right" way to look at it.

I saw an interview with Richard Branson a few years ago. The interviewer asked him what it was like to be super wealthy. He responded "I can only eat one breakfast a day." I realize that's not the whole story, but it is true that a there's not that much additional utility to be gained with most spending above the basics.

Getting even further off topic, my own theory is that most of the "utility" that is gained with expensive clothing, cars, houses, etc. is psychological. It has to do with the "reward" some people get from impressing others, it's not that a $100K vehicle is actually twice as good as a $50K vehicle.

Never forget peoples' desire to have MORE. Some spell it 'MOAR', but I think you get the idea. It's all about showing off, making people jealous and pissing away something they may never run out of. Some go broke trying to keep up, but that's their own fault for not moderating their expenses.

 

[highfigh]

ahhhhh another chuckle for this old fart ! Those of us old enough on here remember when plugs, points, condenser, rotor and distributor cap were changed every 12,000 miles. Now most vehicles it's 100k miles and what's a distributor ? .... LOL !

They do this because having the coil nearer to the plugs reduces misfire events. It also guarantees higher spark intensity. OTOH, a bad plug still makes it run bad, as my friends found out after they replaced an engine for someone- the ceramic had cracked where it met the metal and it was invisible unless magnification was used. They didn't dream that this would be the cause because the plugs were new, so they replaced the coil, moved it to different cylinders and only found it after someone else brought a SnapOn diagnostic tool with a scope to show the spark intensity.

As far as why access is so hard, my plugs & wires took hours and I have everything needed, other than being unable to fit my hands between the engine and floor after the 'dog house' is removed (Astro cargo van). My extensions are more than long enough, my plug socket has a universal joint and I can reach from below, but A) the wheels need to be removed, the van must be raised and I need to be on the floor if it's not on a lift. I really would like to have a lift- it would have taken minutes, rather than hours. I want a lift.

When people would ask if I had replaced the plugs & wires, I would tell them that I hadn't been drunk enough to want to.

 

[slipperybidness]

Never forget peoples' desire to have MORE. Some spell it 'MOAR', but I think you get the idea. It's all about showing off, making people jealous and pissing away something they may never run out of. Some go broke trying to keep up, but that's their own fault for not moderating their expenses.

Yup, and that is addressed by Ramsey. He talks about a friend that drove a Ferrari, but had no "real" $, literally the Ferrari put him into the poor house.

That's part of the problem that some people have, trying to keep up with the Jones'. But, guess what, the Jones are fake!

 

[Irvrobinson]

Never forget peoples' desire to have MORE. Some spell it 'MOAR', but I think you get the idea. It's all about showing off, making people jealous and pissing away something they may never run out of. Some go broke trying to keep up, but that's their own fault for not moderating their expenses.

I've never thought like that. I buy cars because I like cars. I've never shown them off to anyone. Why is it that whenever someone buys a premium product people assume the only reason to have such a product is to make other people jealous? Frankly, I've never met someone who thought that way.

 

[highfigh]

I've never thought like that. I buy cars because I like cars. I've never shown them off to anyone. Why is it that whenever someone buys a premium product people assume the only reason to have such a product is to make other people jealous? Frankly, I've never met someone who thought that way.

I know someone who has the 2nd last of a certain car to roll off of the line. The 1st & last usually end up in museums, but the 2nd and next to last get big bucks. Over time, he has been more willing to show off than when we met.

 

[jinjuku]

This will blow your mind:

Consumer Reports did some sleuthing on credit score based car insurance. They found that with some providers that a high score + a DUI was less expensive than a perfect driving history and a blemished credit report.