stereo receiver vs integrated amp vs avr?

[pcosmic]

Be careful, there are a lot of audiophools on Audiogon and Steve Hoffman has definite tendencies to audiophilia. Be very careful of subjective opinions. It really is your speakers that overwhelmingly determine how your rig sounds in any given environment. The maxim holds, that if you don't like the sound you are getting, then go speaker shopping. If you are a DIYer like me, then it is modify your current one of design and build some different ones. It really comes down to that, with the amps and receivers it comes down to reliability and longevity. It seems to me receivers do have longevity issues, and do have trouble powering speakers that present difficult loads.
So if you have a two channel system with low impedance speakers, then adding a beefier power amp can be an asset. This requires using a receiver with preouts, or using a pre/pro and external amps. I personally don't use receivers, as I'm wedded to my power amps.

I think music only systems are becoming increasingly limiting, as so much music on offer comes with a picture now. So all my systems, even my two channel, has a TV screen. That pushes you in the receiver or pre/pro direction.

Lastly it is nonsense that a good theater system can not be a good music system. That nonsense continues to be propagated. If a theater system does not reproduce music really well, then it is a lousy theater system period, and will more likely than not have speech reproduction issues and other shortcomings. A good theater system should be a first class music reproducer, to which a screen has been added.

@TLS Guy @killdozzer

I am in complete agreement that his speakers and room acoustics will overwhelmingly dictate if he's happy with what he's hearing or not. But, let's start the discussion from the point where he has got his speakers and room acoustics correct.
Now (as of 2019/2020/2021),
Chinese 2 channel Hifi products are much more easily accessible to the US end user. This has completely changed the ballgame when it comes to price for good sound. For instance, take a look at the Jungson (Zhong Shen) JA99 Class A beastmode amplifier. It will easily outlive me and guess how much it cost me? A 1000 bucks! You couldn't even build an amplifier like that in the US at this price (absolutely not), let alone try and make a profit selling it. In fact, these are the guys who actually design/make the amplifiers for many of the snakeoil peddlers around in N.America. These peddlers change the brand name and sell it for 10k, 20k more in N.America. That's just the way it is folks.

Now if he pairs an amp like this with something like a Denafrips Ares R2R DAC (700ish bucks), he could beat what he hears from any flagship receiver/pre pro out there for 2 channel music. There are other DACs he could use too. How do i have a feel for this? Well, i currently have 2 flagship receivers at home (Yamaha & Pioneer Elite). I extensively audited and had a Marantz flagship at home for several months. The Jungson+Denafrips beat the crap out of them all (just sounded better)...

One might come and tell me that a 17k Trinnov (glorified customer support) might sound better?!?! No thanks, but, you're not looking at that kinda stoopid in my house. One might tell me that 17k Luxman reference gear might sound better?...well, i do have the Luxman and it looks pretty n all...but...Chifi man...that's the truth, unbelievable sound for a bargain...And yes, i agree, 2 channel components are way more restrictive. I am more of a multichannel music kinda guy anyway and i lean towards good receivers. But, if OP is a 2 channel purist, it is not bad these days, the price for great sound...not bad at all....

 

[3db]

The bestbuy dude was not entirely wrong. Good speakers can start to be very revealing of a lousy front end. Low end receivers sound like ass for music. Flagship receivers can sound good but they cost a lot. You may be able to outdo the sound of a flagship receiver at around a 3rd of the cost with certain integrated amp and dac combos (for 2 channel music).

This is largely a hometheater/movie centric forum where receivers loom large.. I personally like receivers because i do a lot of my music listening in multichannel, but, i also have several purist pieces for 2 channel music. Try and get different opinions at audiogon, stevehoffman, etc as well which may have a higher density of 2 channel hifi centric guys. Who knows...you may even end up being a tube amp kinda guy or something...Have fun while you're figuring out what works for ya.

Hoffman is a purveyor of snake oil and is not to be trusted period.

 

[pcosmic]

Hoffman is a purveyor of snake oil and is not to be trusted period.

Hoffman and Audiogon definitely have their fair share of audiophools. But, there are also very knowledgeable guys who tend to hang out there as well. For instance, guys like Andrew Jones have been known to sneak around there with a 'hidey' account from time to time...lol (sneaky sneaky)....

 

[Pogre]

But, let's start the discussion from the point where he has got his speakers and room acoustics correct.
Now (as of 2019/2020/2021),

I say we do that when we know it's the actual case. Right now it looks to me like we don't know. He could well make some significant improvements through positioning or better speakers first. If there's room for improvement with setup and/or speakers all this amp talk is just muddying the waters.

 

[Pogre]

BTW, i have been looking at the svs pb and sb 1000 subs. again this is music only and my living room is 15x18 with 10ft vaulted ceiling.

I think a sub upgrade is your biggest opportunity right now. SVS are great, but the 1000 series is their entry level. Between the 2 you mentioned I'd want to go with the PB1000, but depending on room size would encourage you to bump the budget a little and go for a pair of PB2000 pros or take a look at HSU. HSU make great subs at great prices. Best bang for buck, imo.

 

[lp85253]

i meant preout. sorry about that. i have jbl230s now and a yamaha rx475 avr i was told by a guy at best buy that a stereo 2ch receiver, 2ch integrated amp would give me a better and cleaner sound than a avr. i wanted to ask that question on this forum because i believe i would get an honest answer vs some guy in a best buy!

*DON'T* listen to sales people when it comes to the products they sell as it pertains to what you should buy,,, they, every time, will find a way for you to keep spending money .. all the way down the rabbit hole...

 

[sterling shoote]

OP, here's a 2.1 channel receiver that fulfills your needs. It's the Marantz NR-1200 at $599. The sub pre-out has an adjustable low pass filter from 150 to 40 Hz. No high pass filter. I just installed one of these and I am ecstatic with it. The unit has ARC HDMI connection so you can enjoy TV and Airplay makes iTunes from iPhone easy to enjoy.

 

[jsf0656]

i agree. i have gotten a better avr and the JBL studio 230s are much better than the polks i had. i have had a polk, dayton, velodyne, and now the klipsch. all were on the cheaper entry level. yes i need a REAL SUB and i think that is what i am missing!

 

[Pogre]

i agree. i have gotten a better avr and the JBL studio 230s are much better than the polks i had. i have had a polk, dayton, velodyne, and now the klipsch. all were on the cheaper entry level. yes i need a REAL SUB and i think that is what i am missing!

So how much space are you looking at? Any openings to other spaces will count toward room size. That'll be the biggest determining factor for size. I've had Klipsch subs (still have 1, in fact) and they leave a lot to be desired, imo. Mine thumps and adds more bass but it's not very detailed or clean.

 

[jsf0656]

OP, here's a receiver that fulfills your needs. It's the Marantz NR-1200 at $599. The sub pre-out has an adjustable low pass filter from 150 to 40 Hz. No high pass filter. I just installed one of these and I am ecstatic with it. Airplay makes iTunes on my iPhone easy to enjoy from home audio system.https://www.crutchfield.com/S-sRvCug42MXS/p_642NR1200/Marantz-NR1200.html?msclkid=5fe8ba5b00b011b2c1c2da4dcd452ebc&XVINQ=MI5&XVVER=1KD&awcr=76691042690043&awdv=c&awkw=marantz%20nr-1200%20receiver&awmt=e&awnw=o&awat=&awug=88568&msclkid=5fe8ba5b00b011b2c1c2da4dcd452ebc

yes i will look at that, but for now i think the SUB will get me where i need to be sound wise!

 

[jsf0656]

So how much space are you looking at? Any openings to other spaces will count toward room size. That'll be the biggest determining factor for size. I've had Klipsch subs (still have 1, in fact) and they leave a lot to be desired, imo. Mine thumps and adds more bass but it's not very detailed or clean.

you are right. i get the thump but thats it. it does not give me the feeling like i am imersed in the sound of the music. my room is 12x15 with vaulted ceiling and enters into a small 10x12 dining room.

 

[Pogre]

you are right. i get the thump but thats it. it does not give me the feeling like i am imersed in the sound of the music. my room is 12x15 with vaulted ceiling and enters into a small 10x12 dining room.

Pretty good sized space, but not HUGE. I think a pair of these might do the trick and they aren't much more than the PB1000. HSU VTF--2 MK5.

You could also consider starting with a single VTF-3 MK5, see how that goes and get a 2nd one down the road. Going with duals is more for shoring up nulls and evening your frequency response across a larger area, not so much for overall spl. 1 very strategically place large sub can work pretty well, but 2 of them almost always offers a better fr.

Whatever you decide on I'd go ported for your space.

 

[sterling shoote]

you are right. i get the thump but thats it. it does not give me the feeling like i am imersed in the sound of the music. my room is 12x15 with vaulted ceiling and enters into a small 10x12 dining room.

There's a sub in the JBL Studio Series which is matched to the Studio 530's low bass needs. It's the SUB 550P.

 

[Pogre]

There's a sub in the JBL Studio Series which is matched to the Studio 530's low bass needs. It's the SUB 550P.View attachment 44162

That's not a terrible bass module, but falls a little short of a true "sub"woofer. They go on sale cheap from time to time, but right now the VTF-2 is cheaper, more powerful and a true sub.

*Edit: And it's a ported sub! That sealed 10" JBL is really going to struggle in that much space. Even 2 of them will struggle.

 

[jsf0656]

That's not a terrible bass module, but falls a little short of a true "sub"woofer. They go on sale cheap from time to time, but right now the VTF-2 is cheaper, more powerful and a true sub.

also looking at the rsl speedwoofer as well!

 

[jsf0656]

i guess i should have started all these questions in the subwoofer forum!

 

[Pogre]

also looking at the rsl speedwoofer as well!

Those are pretty nice for their size and a pair might work in your space. I haven't had any time with them tho, and they are 10" subs. Ported, which is good, but for your space it might take some more. What's the return policy on the RSL? IIRC it's pretty generous. If so, you could give 'em a shot, try them out at home and return if you decide you want more.

 

[Pogre]

i guess i should have started all these questions in the subwoofer forum!

I don't think it matters all that much, but you can always start a new thread there if you like.

 

[jsf0656]

lots of good options. but i think i am leaning toward the SVS PB1000 or 2000!

 

[Pogre]

lots of good options. but i think i am leaning toward the SVS PB1000 or 2000!

PB2000. If you can swing it, I think you'll be happy. I recommend going dual tho. I'm afraid the 1000 might be a bit underpowered for your space, even with 2 of them. Again, with HSU you can get a little more performance per dollar, but they're not nearly as pretty as SVS, and SVS customer service, trade up program and trial period is really hard to beat.