Power conditioners hurt the sound?

[little wing]

Between APC and Panamax, I'd choose the APC which was designed by a reputable firm which has manufactured industrial power regulating and protection equipment. Their products have been used by big world renowned companies. The Panamax is overpriced and I strongly doubt it would perform any better than the APC.

Verdinut - thanks for the reply. The 5100 has been around for quite while, at least 6 or 7 years. That's about how long I've had it. I bought it for about $360 back then. I was surprised to see it for over $500. I probably wouldn't buy it at that price.

 

[pcosmic]

I think I'm giving up on the idea of power conditioning. PS Audio which are too expensive for me are the only ones that do regeneration and I can't be guaranteed the others in the end would not hurt the sound of the system.

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I briefly had PS Audio's power regenerator sometime ago. The good thing is, if guys like you didn't exist, i wouldn't have been able to sell it and cut my losses whew!

A well designed hefty amp built by Yamaha, Luxman, etc will already do just the exact job of snakeoil Paul McGowan's redundant regenerator before it also starts making music! Comprende???.There are other things you can deploy for other components ( as i mentioned on my earlier post, money that's better spent).

If you do get his regenerator, you could try to get it "used". That way, you may cut even when you sell that snakeoil hssssss later. Have you thought about cable risers too? Paul said risers make a difference on his channel!! it will make the sound "organic", "musical" and also throw a uuugggggee soundstage, i bet.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I have an APC G5 because it has timed turn on and off outlets.

 

[Hetfield]

I briefly had PS Audio's power regenerator sometime ago. The good thing is, if guys like you didn't exist, i wouldn't have been able to sell it and cut my losses whew!

A well designed hefty amp built by Yamaha, Luxman, etc will already do just the exact job of snakeoil Paul McGowan's redundant regenerator before it also starts making music! Comprende???.There are other things you can deploy for other components ( as i mentioned on my earlier post, money that's better spent).

If you do get his regenerator, you could try to get it "used". That way, you may cut even when you sell that snakeoil hssssss later. Have you thought about cable risers too? Paul said risers make a difference on his channel!! it will make the sound "organic", "musical" and also throw a uuugggggee soundstage, i bet.

I'm not buying any of those regenerators, sounds cool but I don't have 5 grand to spend on something like that. 5 grand would by probably more than my whole HT minus the TV. Actually now that I count things up, 5 grand is more than my audio portion of my HT. RSL speakers, Denon X3400H, Parasound HCA 1205A, SVS PB1000.
I've had that tank of a Parasound amp for close to 20 years I think. Its a prized possession of mine actually.

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[mazersteven]

On sale

APC AV Black 1kVA H Type Power Conditioner 120V - H10BLK | APC USA

H10BLK - APC AV Black 1kVA H Type Power Conditioner 120V | APC USA

www.apc.com

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm not buying any of those regenerators, sounds cool but I don't have 5 grand to spend on something like that. 5 grand would by probably more than my whole HT minus the TV. Actually now that I count things up, 5 grand is more than my audio portion of my HT. RSL speakers, Denon X3400H, Parasound HCA 1205A, SVS PB1000.
I've had that tank of a Parasound amp for close to 20 years I think. Its a prized possession of mine actually.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Do not get a regen unit they waste a lot of power and give trouble.

I do think that modern electronics that have chips with everything need protection, and not just surges.

I do believe whole house surge protection at the panel is the way to go. That protects complex circuits in fridges, furnaces etc. which can be very expensive. They also do a better job.

After that in your system, it is the delicate units that need protection. I do not in general recommend anything other than surge protection for power amps. This because they have such wide and sudden variation of power demands. This makes recommendations for receivers problematic, and is another issue in favor of separates.
However due the cost of receivers and the fact that they are packed with fragile processing chips, I generally recommend protection for receivers.

I think the best way to go is with battery backup, in other words a UPS. I use APC units. What you need is units that will boost and shave power outside of specified parameters, and go to battery in 1 to 5 msec of unstable power. You would be surprised how often this protection activates. I have all my three systems protected in this fashion, and also the whole Ethernet infrastructure throughout the house. I really do believe this prevents costly repairs and hassles. For instance no parts of how Internet infrastructure have been rebooted since installation 15 months ago.

As in all things robust, carefully designed and installed infrastructure pays dividends, as it does in all well engineered systems. There just is no substitute ever for that approach.

 

[Kleinst]

I put in a whole home for about $450 and bought panamax 5100's for my systems each for $50 each used. I also use that ISOBAR elsewhere in the house. I think they all are good options but I wouldn't recommend paying full price for Panamax or comparable but great to get for $50-$100 if you can snag one.

 

[lovinthehd]

What fasinates me is the persistence of the marketing of an audio improvement for power "conditioners" (let alone them saying anything about hurting performance)....

 

[stalag2005]

Unless you have really dirty power, and that can only be determined by measurements, buying a power conditioner is not needed. Every electronic component today has power conditioning built in. It is recommended however one consider if they own the property to get a whole house surge suppressor added to the distribution panel. Other than that, a high quality surge suppressor is all that is needed and recommended to protect electronics. Isobar by Tripplite comes to mind, but Schneider Electric also is another reputable brand with all types of power and surge suppression all the way to sizes for handling huge offices or hospitals. In comparison to the snake oil hyper expensive crap, don't fall for it.

 

[highfigh]

Between APC and Panamax, I'd choose the APC which was designed by a reputable firm which has manufactured industrial power regulating and protection equipment. Their products have been used by big world renowned companies. The Panamax is overpriced and I strongly doubt it would perform any better than the APC.

Go to a live music event and look for the big generator trailers outside- they usually have Furman on them, for a reason. Panamax and Furman are part of the same corporation and have been for years. How is APC's design more reputable than Furman/Panamax? My Panamax has been working great for well over five years and it has shut the system off because of spike. Never lost a piece of equipment and I was in the room where I installed a Furman- lightning struck just outside of the house and I heard a snapping sound where the ADT cellular device is mounted- I noticed that one of its lights was blinking afterward, but the AV system, which was operating at the time, never missed a beat. I like APC, but I doubt it's really better than the other two. Nothing wrong with TrippLite, either.

 

[TankTop5]

What is your concern with your power?
Do you live in an old San Fransico Victorian with turn-of-the-century wiring?

The power of those old homes is just fine, it’s the PG&E gas lines in San Francisco you need to worry about

 

[lovinthehd]

I lived in an old home in SF, the wiring was a bit....interesting (but never needed a power conditioner either). Had definite limits and issues. Never had a problem with the gas

 

[mazersteven]

The power of those old homes is just fine, it’s the PG&E gas lines in San Francisco you need to worry about

Eat at Scoma's

 

[lovinthehd]

Eat at Scoma's
View attachment 43296

Not for the next two weeks....closed for maintenance (which I guess is better than the many restaurants that have had to close permanently there).

 

[highfigh]

I put in a whole home for about $450 and bought panamax 5100's for my systems each for $50 each used. I also use that ISOBAR elsewhere in the house. I think they all are good options but I wouldn't recommend paying full price for Panamax or comparable but great to get for $50-$100 if you can snag one.

FYI- the devices used in some surge protection (Varistors) have a finite life span. You'll know when they fail.

 

[highfigh]

I'm not buying any of those regenerators, sounds cool but I don't have 5 grand to spend on something like that. 5 grand would by probably more than my whole HT minus the TV. Actually now that I count things up, 5 grand is more than my audio portion of my HT. RSL speakers, Denon X3400H, Parasound HCA 1205A, SVS PB1000.
I've had that tank of a Parasound amp for close to 20 years I think. Its a prized possession of mine actually.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

When I was in school and we had to solve difficult problems, they often heard us muttering and complaining, then wrote 'SIB-KISS' on the chalkboard.

As TLS wrote, kill surges at the panel and use local protection at the equipment to help with surges from motors & switches with minimal protection for the power amps- they just don't need much but I doubt that you're driving the system so hard that you would ever notice.

 

[Hetfield]

When I was in school and we had to solve difficult problems, they often heard us muttering and complaining, then wrote 'SIB-KISS' on the chalkboard.

As TLS wrote, kill surges at the panel and use local protection at the equipment to help with surges from motors & switches with minimal protection for the power amps- they just don't need much but I doubt that you're driving the system so hard that you would ever notice.

Thanks for the info, I'm gonna sit put on everything. Let's just call it a moment of insanity.
Hey because I don't want to start a separate thread I have a speaker/amp power question.
I recently switched from Def Tech speakers to RSL of which I could not be more happy by the way. Any way the Def Tech's were rated high as far as the wattage they can take. The RSL speakers are 25-125. My Parasound amp is 140 per channel all channels driven. Its a beast of an amp. Now from what I understand too low, crappy voltage hurts speakers more than too much wattage. But what exactly could hurt my speakers with this amp? Like I only listen at a max of -20 and honestly have no idea how people listen at 0 reference. If I did try it at reference would that be enough to blow these speakers? Just so I know the limits here? Thanks.

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[pcosmic]

Do not get a regen unit they waste a lot of power and give trouble.

I do think that modern electronics that have chips with everything need protection, and not just surges.

I do believe whole house surge protection at the panel is the way to go. That protects complex circuits in fridges, furnaces etc. which can be very expensive. They also do a better job.

After that in your system, it is the delicate units that need protection. I do not in general recommend anything other than surge protection for power amps. This because they have such wide and sudden variation of power demands. This makes recommendations for receivers problematic, and is another issue in favor of separates.
However due the cost of receivers and the fact that they are packed with fragile processing chips, I generally recommend protection for receivers.

I think the best way to go is with battery backup, in other words a UPS. I use APC units. What you need is units that will boost and shave power outside of specified parameters, and go to battery in 1 to 5 msec of unstable power. You would be surprised how often this protection activates. I have all my three systems protected in this fashion, and also the whole Ethernet infrastructure throughout the house. I really do believe this prevents costly repairs and hassles. For instance no parts of how Internet infrastructure have been rebooted since installation 15 months ago.

As in all things robust, carefully designed and installed infrastructure pays dividends, as it does in all well engineered systems. There just is no substitute ever for that approach.

Agree with ya. Considering the stuff he has, this affordable 1500VA sinewave UPS with surge busting and AVR may be all he needs for now.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00429N19W?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

[stalag2005]

After I repaired my fathers computer in the 1990's that got hit by lightning, I have always gone for surge suppression on my electronics. Since most devices today have serious electronics in them, I recommend myself a whole house surge suppressor. A good battery backup that can handle the surges of power needed by the equipment is also a good thing. In the case of audio with the overhead needed for transient current to drive speakers this is a requirement. Transient current is one thing, but transient voltage spikes or dips can hurt equipment. This is what a surge suppressor stops. Electric devices like this can wear. Triplite in their devices usually has a circuit LED light that lets you know when you need to replace the unit.

 

[highfigh]

Thanks for the info, I'm gonna sit put on everything. Let's just call it a moment of insanity.
Hey because I don't want to start a separate thread I have a speaker/amp power question.
I recently switched from Def Tech speakers to RSL of which I could not be more happy by the way. Any way the Def Tech's were rated high as far as the wattage they can take. The RSL speakers are 25-125. My Parasound amp is 140 per channel all channels driven. Its a beast of an amp. Now from what I understand too low, crappy voltage hurts speakers more than too much wattage. But what exactly could hurt my speakers with this amp? Like I only listen at a max of -20 and honestly have no idea how people listen at 0 reference. If I did try it at reference would that be enough to blow these speakers? Just so I know the limits here? Thanks.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Line voltage? Any power amp has filtering at the input of the power supply and for short term bursts, they provide a bit of juice, but the power supply also has regulators, which maintain the B+ voltage needed for the circuits to perform at their best under most circumstances. Even if the voltage sags by 10% for a brief time, I doubt it would be very noticeable.

I have a (bass) guitar amp with tubes, from the late-'50s, that has been analyzed to death over the last four decades and one person stated that the power supply removes well over 120dB of ripple from the rectified voltage. A newer HiFi amplifier would remove a similar amount. As far as line voltage fluctuations, they tend to be of two types: long brown-outs and instantaneous spikes. With a brown-out, you'll generally see lights dim and with the spikes, you may see a brief flicker.