AVR vs Integrated (mixed use, 2.1, 100wpc+)

[CoolHandDuke]

I know this topic gets thrown around a lot, but I recently bought a pair of Ascend Acoustic Sierra 1s I love and a Hsu VTF2 MK5 subwoofer. Right now, I'm using a Denon AVR-X2600H to power them.

I hear a lot of chatter that I'm not getting the most out of my speakers using the AVR on a 2.1 system. The drawback is my room is not treated, and I like having the bass management.

It seems difficult to find an integrated with 100wpc+, ability to stream things like Tidal, that also has ability to at least EQ the low bass, and have the ability to connect to digital sources like a PS4/5. I do like the idea of a better built power source, and I will never go past 2.1 or 2.2, so the 9/11 channels are a bit of a waste on me. Most of what I do is music and TV.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

 

[mazersteven]

Right now, I'm using a Denon AVR-X2600H to power them.

I hear a lot of chatter that I'm not getting the most out of my speakers

I'm curious as to where you hear this is it on audioholics that you hear this

 

[CoolHandDuke]

I'm curious as to where you hear this is it on audioholics that you hear this

Not on here. Most what I see on this forum is the opinion that in a blind trial, you wouldn't be able to tell difference. Just makes me second guess my purchases.

 

[lovinthehd]

An avr is an integrated amp....and most avrs have better bass management than most simple 2ch integrated amps. Back in the day we considered an integrated amp a compromise over separates....just a receiver minus tuner. Tidal is its own bullshit, tho.

 

[CoolHandDuke]

An avr is an integrated amp....and most avrs have better bass management than most simple 2ch integrated amps. Back in the day we considered an integrated amp a compromise over separates....just a receiver minus tuner. Tidal is its own bullshit, tho.

That's a great point. I don't know if some just look down on EQ, but even with basic Audyssey XT, it really makes my music low end balanced. I do wish I had sprung for a higher end receiver with pre outs so I could add a separate power amp if I felt the need to separate processing from power.

 

[lovinthehd]

That's a great point. I don't know if some just look down on EQ, but even with basic Audyssey XT, it really makes my music low end balanced. I do wish I had sprung for a higher end receiver with pre outs so I could add a separate power amp if I felt the need to separate processing from power.

Yes a lot of disagreement out there as to how/when/why to use eq, but its ultimately personal preference in that regard (as long as you don't necessarily equate personal preference with reference). The loudness contour via dynamic eq is a nice feature of Audyssey that may or may not be an option outside of Audssey in your avr (there are other loudness contours depending on the model). Additional power may or may not be useful...I generally don't need external amps even on my avrs with preouts with my current listening levels/rooms involved.

 

[mazersteven]

I do wish I had sprung for a higher end receiver with pre outs so I could add a separate power amp if I felt the need to separate processing from power.

CHD your receiver is fine.

 

[CoolHandDuke]

Yes a lot of disagreement out there as to how/when/why to use eq, but its ultimately personal preference in that regard (as long as you don't necessarily equate personal preference with reference). The loudness contour via dynamic eq is a nice feature of Audyssey that may or may not be an option outside of Audssey in your avr (there are other loudness contours depending on the model). Additional power may or may not be useful...I generally don't need external amps even on my avrs with preouts with my current listening levels/rooms involved.

Yes a lot of disagreement out there as to how/when/why to use eq, but its ultimately personal preference in that regard (as long as you don't necessarily equate personal preference with reference). The loudness contour via dynamic eq is a nice feature of Audyssey that may or may not be an option outside of Audssey in your avr (there are other loudness contours depending on the model). Additional power may or may not be useful...I generally don't need external amps even on my avrs with preouts with my current listening levels/rooms involved.

I have to flex the AVR pretty hard on my preamp unit (although this is also related to my preamp gain). When taking measurements, I need to crank close to 90% with my speakers to get to 80db with pink noise.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have to flex the AVR pretty hard on my preamp unit (although this is also related to my preamp gain). When taking measurements, I need to crank close to 90% with my speakers to get to 80db with pink noise.

? What pre-amp are you using with the avr?

 

[CoolHandDuke]

? What pre-amp are you using with the avr?

It's a basic Art DJ Pre II. I can adjust gain to make it louder, but my cartridge sounds better closer to 35db of gain (4.5mV output). I guess I figured if I wanted the processing power of the AVR, but more headroom for my speakers and less distortion, the separate power amp might prove useful.

 

[CoolHandDuke]

CHD your receiver is fine.

Is CHD "Calm the hell down"?

 

[lovinthehd]

It's a basic Art DJ Pre II. I can adjust gain to make it louder, but my cartridge sounds better closer to 35db of gain (4.5mV output). I guess I figured if I wanted the processing power of the AVR, but more headroom for my speakers and less distortion, the separate power amp might prove useful.

That's a phono pre-amp (as opposed to what is normally called a pre-amp). Not sure what you're doing otherwise let alone what you mean by processing power....

ps I'd assume CHD is a abbreviation of your screen name...

 

[mazersteven]

Is CHD "Calm the hell down"?

Cool - C Hand - H Duke - D

CHD

 

[lovinthehd]

As to the 90% crank....what does that mean in use of the avr volume control? Have you tried individual input level control to help out?

 

[CoolHandDuke]

View attachment 43240
Cool - C Hand - H Duke - D

CHD

I'm face palming hard on that one.

 

[CoolHandDuke]

As to the 90% crank....what does that mean in use of the avr volume control? Have you tried individual input level control to help out?

I'm not sure how to do this or if I'm understanding correctly. The 90% was when I was using REW pink nose generator to get up to 80db. It was to point that I could audibly hear the hiss. Seemed excessive. Microphone was at MLP 7.5 feet away.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm not sure how to do this or if I'm understanding correctly. The 90% was when I was using REW pink nose generator to get up to 80db. It was to point that I could audibly hear the hiss. Seemed excessive. Microphone was at MLP 7.5 feet away.

The volume control isn't a percentage, tho, it's dB based (logarithmic, so every 3dB represents a doubling of power)....what were the particular volume control settings? Was the system calibrated with Audyssey or ? What is the source of hiss....you didn't mention that before....is that only using vinyl or everything?

 

[CoolHandDuke]

I

The volume control isn't a percentage, tho, it's dB based (logarithmic, so every 3dB represents a doubling of power)....what were the particular volume control settings? Was the system calibrated with Audyssey or ? What is the source of hiss....you didn't mention that before....is that only using vinyl or everything?

I see. I have it set to the 0-100 volume setting not the dB offset one. I had turned Audyssey off and was using the front HDMI port to connect my laptop to the AVR. I've never had to turn it up that high except when performing REW measurements.

 

[lovinthehd]

The 0-100 is still dB based (and called the absolute scale), it just uses 0-100 (reference level of 82) instead of the reference scale where reference level at 0 with a scale of -79.5 to +18, but same difference between digits. Not a percentage in any case.

 

[CoolHandDuke]

The 0-100 is still dB based (and called the absolute scale), it just uses 0-100 (reference level of 82) instead of the reference scale where reference level at 0 with a scale of -79.5 to +18, but same difference between digits. Not a percentage in any case.

Thank you for explaining that.

My other option is to use my new Triangle Borea BR08s since they don't require nearly as much power. However, initial listening had me prefer Sierras.