Shorter and longer term AVR solution

[AcuDefTechGuy]

1. No. I can't imagine I would need it. I'm not even on 4K yet, although looking to possibly going to an OLED from plasma in the not too distant future. I am not a gamer, so that is not an issue either.

2. I'm not sure if I can answer this yet as I have not had room correction in the past. I thought room correction would be very helpful and was excited about Audyssey, but so far I have not had the success I had hoped. That may, however, be more on me, so the jury is still out.

By the way, I know that Yamaha was going to do one final run of the RX-A3080 (and I actually received a notice from a vendor that I could order a 2080 for delivery in 2-4 weeks), but since they are not discounting them, I was thinking it might make more sense to wait for the newer versions rather than paying for the older tech (whether I need it now or not)

Newer is not always better. Sometimes "older" is better.

With Audyssey and all other Room Correction EQ, some people like them and some people don't like them.

Since you already have the Marantz, give Audyssey a try. If you still think it doesn't sound any better or even make the sound worse, then it probably means you just don't like room correction EQ like some people. Trust your EARS.

 

[Trebdp83]

Seriously, consider your NEEDS before shopping for a new receiver. Compare the back panels of the 6014 and the TSR-700. Will you lose any inputs/outputs you need now? Then, go over the feature sets. What do you need now? What will firmware updates offer in the future? Never mind the opinions regarding how each of them sound. If I’m going to throw another opinion in the ring though, mine is that anybody who prefers the TSR-700 over the 6014 is out of their f#%kin’ mind. But, that’s just MY opinion and it’s your money. What do I know? I bought an Onkyo. But, I do prefer it to the RX-V6A sitting next to it. Maybe later we can work something out. If you can secure a 2080 or 3080, go for it. Supposedly, interesting things are coming from Yamaha next year. If I’d agreed to the NDA, I’d know what they are but then I couldn’t very well tell you guys about them, could I? Boy, you all sure scrub up nicely.

 

[PENG]

So now you brought your personal issues to this thread. Why are you hijacking this thread? Are we sore enemies? You had the need to tag all of them.. , what are you 18? Grow up lad. I'm gonna put you in the ignore list.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

You have some good posts, but those ratings seem uncalled for. Would be nice if you remove them when you still can even if people don't care. As @AcuDefTechGuy (an ex mod) said, this is a friendly forum. He likes to promote Yamaha's too, but never gave anyone negative ratings (unless I missed something).

 

[TechToys2]

Seriously, consider your NEEDS before shopping for a new receiver. Compare the back panels of the 6014 and the TSR-700. Will you lose any inputs/outputs you need now? Then, go over the feature sets. What do you need now? What will firmware updates offer in the future? Never mind the opinions regarding how each of them sound. If I’m going to throw another opinion in the ring though, mine is that anybody who prefers the TSR-700 over the 6014 is out of their f#%kin’ mind. But, that’s just MY opinion and it’s your money. What do I know? I bought an Onkyo. But, I do prefer it to the RX-V6A sitting next to it. Maybe later we can work something out. If you can secure a 2080 or 3080, go for it. Supposedly, interesting things are coming from Yamaha next year. If I’d agreed to the NDA, I’d know what they are but then I couldn’t very well tell you guys about them, could I? Boy, you all sure scrub up nicely.

I have a 5.1 system and my needs currently are pretty basic in terms of inputs/outputs. I bought the 6014 as I thought it was a good value and had everything I could imagine needing now or for the foreseeable future. I had actually been looking at it when it was released in 2019. It's a stupid thing, but among other things, I was interested in the Dolby Atmos height virtualization feature as I don't have height channels at this point. In turns out to add a subtle but nice effect IMO. But at that time I guess I wasn't ready to buy anything and I didn't want to pay full retail for it in any event.

I hear your opinion about the TSR-700 vs the 6014. The TSR-700 would clearly be a stopgap measure. But what you say brings up a valid point/question. If I am going to choose a potential stopgap measure, why not choose one that may actually wind up not to be a stopgap in the end after all?

 

[TechToys2]

Newer is not always better. Sometimes "older" is better.

... Trust your EARS.

Two things I need to remember (and not just with respect to audio equipment)!

I ran Audyssey again and plan to do some comparisons with different settings tonight.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I have a 5.1 system and my needs currently are pretty basic in terms of inputs/outputs. I bought the 6014 as I thought it was a good value and had everything I could imagine needing now or for the foreseeable future. I had actually been looking at it when it was released in 2019. It's a stupid thing, but among other things, I was interested in the Dolby Atmos height virtualization feature as I don't have height channels at this point. In turns out to add a subtle but nice effect IMO. But at that time I guess I wasn't ready to buy anything and I didn't want to pay full retail for it in any event.

I hear your opinion about the TSR-700 vs the 6014. The TSR-700 would clearly be a stopgap measure. But what you say brings up a valid point/question. If I am going to choose a potential stopgap measure, why not choose one that may actually wind up not to be a stopgap in the end after all?

I think that’s a good question.(the stopgap one I mean)
I use. 6012(and a Yamaha pro amp) for 7.3.4. I’ve enjoyed it very much but I have spent a lot of time with the app, and minidsp for my three subs. Out of the box, I liked the 6012 right away and enjoyed process of further tweaking. Yamahas I’ve set up sound fine but I don’t like the menu structure and proprietary language. If you can, spend some time with one to see if that will work for you. It might be great, but I haven’t enjoyed that part of them.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Two things I need to remember (and not just with respect to audio equipment)!

I ran Audyssey again and plan to do some comparisons with different settings tonight.

It never hurts to try and try again. But also remember not to beat yourself up if you conclude that Room Correction isn’t your cup of tea, not just with Audyssey. I think we all have different preferences.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You have some good posts, but those ratings seem uncalled for. Would be nice if you remove them when you still can even if people don't care. As @AcuDefTechGuy (an ex mod) said, this is a friendly forum. He likes to promote Yamaha's too, but never gave anyone negative ratings (unless I missed something).

You are correct.

I would never give anyone negative ratings for PREFERRING any brand. Except for Bose. We quit Bose.

After owning both DM and Y brands, I think both can sound awesome. But both have pros and cons depending preferences.

I’ve mentioned this before. The 2 biggest Pros I‘ve come to love about DM include 1) Pure Direct mode with LFE output for 2CH and 2) Dynamic EQ for subwoofer.

Some people think, “Oh, if you can use the subwoofer in 2Ch even in PD, then it’s not really PD. But it is really PD. I know this because unlike most people, I sing karaoke a lot on my system using my great Yamaha Stereo Mixer.

If it’s NOT true Direct Mode, there is a DELAY in sound because it goes through processing. In Direct mode, it doesn’t go through processing so there is no delay in sound at all.

Thus, I have to use Direct Mode for karaoke. Only problem with Yamaha is that in 2CH PD mode, I can’t use the LFE output. So now I have to use the XLR output on my RX-A3080 directly to the Subwoofer Amplifier.

With DM, I use Dynamic EQ for the subs. With Yamaha, I use the manual Parametric EQ for the subwoofers.

I can get AWESOME sound with both DM and Y, but the approach is different.

So it depends on preferences.

Pros and cons. Everyone just needs to figure out what works best for them. But we can all get along.

 

[Gmoney]

You are correct.

I would never give anyone negative ratings for PREFERRING any brand. Except for Bose. We quit Bose.

After owning both DM and Y brands, I think both can sound awesome. But both have pros and cons depending preferences.

I’ve mentioned this before. The 2 biggest Pros I‘ve come to love about DM include 1) Pure Direct mode with LFE output for 2CH and 2) Dynamic EQ for subwoofer.

Some people think, “Oh, if you can use the subwoofer in 2Ch even in PD, then it’s not really PD. But it is really PD. I know this because unlike most people, I sing karaoke a lot on my system using my great Yamaha Stereo Mixer.

If it’s NOT true Direct Mode, there is a DELAY in sound because it goes through processing. In Direct mode, it doesn’t go through processing so there is no delay in sound at all.

Thus, I have to use Direct Mode for karaoke. Only problem with Yamaha is that in 2CH PD mode, I can’t use the LFE output. So now I have to use the XLR output on my RX-A3080 directly to the Subwoofer Amplifier.

With DM, I use Dynamic EQ for the subs. With Yamaha, I use the manual Parametric EQ for the subwoofers.

I can get AWESOME sound with both DM and Y, but the approach is different.

So it depends on preferences.

Pros and cons. Everyone just needs to figure out what works best for them. But we can all get along.

Yeah! love Karaoke!!

 

[Trebdp83]

I have a 5.1 system and my needs currently are pretty basic in terms of inputs/outputs. I bought the 6014 as I thought it was a good value and had everything I could imagine needing now or for the foreseeable future. I had actually been looking at it when it was released in 2019. It's a stupid thing, but among other things, I was interested in the Dolby Atmos height virtualization feature as I don't have height channels at this point. In turns out to add a subtle but nice effect IMO. But at that time I guess I wasn't ready to buy anything and I didn't want to pay full retail for it in any event.

I hear your opinion about the TSR-700 vs the 6014. The TSR-700 would clearly be a stopgap measure. But what you say brings up a valid point/question. If I am going to choose a potential stopgap measure, why not choose one that may actually wind up not to be a stopgap in the end after all?

The TSR-700 would be a downgrade in every way. The HDMI 2.1 inputs are not a factor since they require a firmware update and provide nothing unless you plan to game and have compatible TV and console. You will lose height virtualization. Yamaha will bring dolby later to TSR-700 but no DTS. You will give up a very nice GUI for one that is s#%t. It matters to some. Yamaha will do no updating of 2019 models so no virtualizers will appear in the 1080, 2080 or 3080. Just some things to consider while you think of your next move.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You will lose height virtualization.

In case anyone is asking what is "Dolby Atmos Height Virtualization"?

This uses digital signal processing (DSP) to create the sensation (virtual speakers) of overhead sound in speakers that are actually installed at listener height.

So it takes your real speakers and uses more DSP to create some Fake Virtual Ceiling speakers.

Of course, if you have REAL Ceiling speakers, you would not be using DSP to create some fake virtual speakers.

 

[Trebdp83]

The OP mentioned using Dolby Atmos Height virtualization because he didn't have REAL ceiling speakers. But, thanks for being a REAL d#%k about it. If you think it's silly, write Dolby since they came up with it.

 

[Sachb]

The TSR-700 would be a downgrade in every way. The HDMI 2.1 inputs are not a factor since they require a firmware update and provide nothing unless you plan to game and have compatible TV and console. You will lose height virtualization. Yamaha will bring dolby later to TSR-700 but no DTS. You will give up a very nice GUI for one that is s#%t. It matters to some. Yamaha will do no updating of 2019 models so no virtualizers will appear in the 1080, 2080 or 3080. Just some things to consider while you think of your next move.

Can you not get it? He will use this as a temporary reciever, until the big aventage 2021 line-up comes up.

For now, he's still working out with the Marantz.

That TSR-700 will sound sweet, & I know it.

If I'm not wrong he can use Yamaha TSR 700 as a Pre-amp & the Marantz 6014 to power the front Left & Right speakers.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[Trebdp83]

I know what the TSR-700 and RX-V6A sound like, do you? It's a step down from the 6014 in every way no matter what the Yamaha devotees have to say about it. He spent good money on a good Marantz. If he wants to spend a bit more on a lesser Yamaha, that is his business. I offered the information to somebody considering the TSR-700. He can take it or leave it. When Yamaha sent me a receiver and wanted my feedback, I gave it to them. When they didn't like it, they shut up and left me alone. If their fanboys could do as much, I for one would be grateful. Now, go put a salve on your forehead. That Y brand looks infected. Otherwise, you look great along with everybody else around here.

 

[Sachb]

I know what the TSR-700 and RX-V6A sound like, do you? It's a step down from the 6014 in every way no matter what the Yamaha devotees have to say about it. He spent good money on a good Marantz. If he wants to spend a bit more on a lesser Yamaha, that is his business. I offered the information to somebody considering the TSR-700. He can take it or leave it. When Yamaha sent me a receiver and wanted my feedback, I gave it to them. When they didn't like it, they shut up and left me alone. If their fanboys could do as much, I for one would be grateful. Now, go put a salve on your forehead. That Y brand looks infected. Otherwise, you look great along with everybody else around here.

Step down I know, but he said that he's trying to make Marantz work, in the process of doing that he might just try another brand "Yamaha", I also gave him some tips on Audyssey before he plans to make any more investment.

TSR700 = V6A FYI, are you not liking it mate? I'm sure the V6A would sound better in every way than my older Denon X2300W..

 

[mazersteven]

Let's not turn ANOTHER thread into a Fucking Disaster.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The OP mentioned using Dolby Atmos Height virtualization because he didn't have REAL ceiling speakers. But, thanks for being a REAL d#%k about it. If you think it's silly, write Dolby since they came up with it.

I don’t have the energy to write Dolby or anyone else. But I will voice my opinions on AH.

I love Atmos/DTSX and NeuralX and the cool sound effects from the ceiling speakers. But it seems most of their (Dolby, DTS, Auro3) marketings are more gimmick than good.

The Dolby Atmos upward-firing module and this virtual speaker DSP are pure gimmick to me.

In general, I hate DSP and EQ (above 200Hz). One of the things I hate about Yamaha is all their DSP modes, which might be cool for Karaoke, but not for most things. Fortunately, I don’t have to use any of their DSP modes like Virtual Speakers. Yes, not surprisingly, Yamaha has their own Virtual Speaker DSP mode also.

P.S. Even when I sing Karaoke (Yamaha mixer), I turn the DSP modes (like echo) off.

 

[Trebdp83]

Well, I’m glad you found the energy to post. I didn’t technically use profanity. You filled it in. I offered TechToys2 my opinion based on my own experience with an AVR. I have used many Denon models and I do not believe Denon/Marantz characteristics have changed all that much since then. I was not impressed with the TSR-700 and returned it. TechToys2 wanted some opinions. I gave him mine. I’d appreciate everybody else’s opinions be directed toward TechToys2 as I am not asking for them. Boy, you guys look very dapper in your Sunday best. See, no f#%kin’ profanity, or was there?

 

[TechToys2]

So I re-ran Audyssey and played around with it last night with both music (FLAC files streamed from my computer using a Sonos Connect and some CDs) and Netflix streamed using a Roku Ultra. I limited the eq filter to 300hz, and turned midrange compensation off.

I am going to continue to test different content but my mostly subjective thoughts so far are as follow.

First, Audyssey set the levels lower than when I set them manually myself (which I think I may have noted in another thread). This is no big deal, but I had to turn the volume up around 4 db higher while watching Netflix (same series I had watched the prior night) and the sound for whatever reason still didn't seem quite as punchy to me. FWIW, while watching I had Audyssey set to Reference, Dynamic EQ on and a Reference Level offset of 10 db (leaving it at 0 seemed to bloat the bass).

For music, with Dynamic EQ on and a 10 db reference offset, I preferred Audyssey on. Music seemed thin with it off. Switching between Reference, L/R Bypass and Flat produced varying results depending on the particular song/artist/genre. If I had to choose between the 3, I think Reference sounded best more consistently. Interestingly, and perhaps it was just my own perception based on the different levels, I felt as though music sounded better when I had the system set up manually without Audyssey than simply turning Audyssey off after running. I assume there should be no difference as Audyssey is off in both cases, so I chalk this up to the fleetingness of audio memory and my inability to compare side by side prior to running Audyssey.

For Netflix I felt the music part of the soundtrack sounded better with Audyssey on, but dialog was somewhat less clear. The dialog seemed muddier. I did not try it with dynamic volume last night, but my prior experience with it was mixed.

The bottom line is that I'm still not sure how I feel about the effects of Audyssey. There are times I prefer it and times I don't, but in either case (and expectation bias or not) I am still finding it difficult to recreate the emotional impact I frequently felt while listening to music and watching movies and other content with my Rotel.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm still not sure how I feel about the effects of Audyssey. There are times I prefer it and times I don't, but in either case (and expectation bias or not) I am still finding it difficult to recreate the emotional impact I frequently felt while listening to music and watching movies and other content with my Rotel.

Were you using “direct mode” on the Rotel without any EQ/DSP?

If that’s the case, then pretend the Marantz has absolutely no Audyssey or any kind of Auto Room EQ. Just set everything up manually like you did with the Rotel.