Shorter and longer term AVR solution

[TechToys2]

Were you using “direct mode” on the Rotel without any EQ/DSP?

Essentially yes, with respect to music. For movies/TV etc. it was usually Dolby Digital, but no other tone adjustments were set.

 

[TechToys2]

I have used many Denon models and I do not believe Denon/Marantz characteristics have changed all that much since then. I was not impressed with the TSR-700 and returned it. TechToys2 wanted some opinions. I gave him mine.

And I appreciate yours and everyone else's opinions and help who have replied, internal squabbling aside

Were your issues with the TSR-700 functions/mechanical/firmware related?

 

[TechToys2]

The Dolby Atmos upward-firing module and this virtual speaker DSP are pure gimmick to me.

In general, I hate DSP and EQ (above 200Hz). One of the things I hate about Yamaha is all their DSP modes, which might be cool for Karaoke, but not for most things. Fortunately, I don’t have to use any of their DSP modes like Virtual Speakers. Yes, not surprisingly, Yamaha has their own Virtual Speaker DSP mode also.

P.S. Even when I sing Karaoke (Yamaha mixer), I turn the DSP modes (like echo) off.

Have you had the opportunity to spend significant time with height virtualization on a system that doesn't have height channels? Like you, I generally really dislike DSP modes and the proliferation of them on Yamaha receivers is one of the things that I dislike. I was surprised, however, that I actually found height virtualization to have a subtle, but positive impact when watching movies etc. YMMV

I was also surprised that in some cases I like what the Dolby Surround upmix with center spread does. I have been a "stereo only" person when it comes to music.

 

[mazersteven]

And I appreciate yours and everyone else's opinions and help who have replied, internal squabbling aside

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Essentially yes, with respect to music. For movies/TV etc. it was usually Dolby Digital, but no other tone adjustments were set.

That’s what I figured. Something tells me you might be in the same audio camp as I am - no Auto Room EQ for me.

Based on my experience, I think Speaker-EQ does something unnatural to the sound of the speakers. The Room Frequency Response might be flatter on REW measurements, but it just sounds unnatural to my ears.

I think the one area where speaker EQ might be okay is when the speaker is 100% Active, not passive. And even then, I would only EQ the Active Woofers, not the midrange or tweeter.

I bypass Auto Room EQ. Then just do Manual Parametric EQ only for the Subwoofers from around 40-80Hz, +3.0dB, Q=0.5. But absolutely no EQ for any speakers, like for your Rotel.

 

[Trebdp83]

To answer the TSR-700 question, yes, yes and yes. I do believe it was simply a bad unit. The RX-V6A is functioning well after a bug fix firmware update. It simply does not have the feature set or ease of use I enjoy with the Onkyo. Oh, and I always turned Dynamic EQ off myself. For more information about different user experiences with the Yamaha, you can refer to the “Yamaha RX-V6A/TSR-700 views” thread.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Have you had the opportunity to spend significant time with height virtualization on a system that doesn't have height channels? Like you, I generally really dislike DSP modes and the proliferation of them on Yamaha receivers is one of the things that I dislike. I was surprised, however, that I actually found height virtualization to have a subtle, but positive impact when watching movies etc. YMMV

I was also surprised that in some cases I like what the Dolby Surround upmix with center spread does. I have been a "stereo only" person when it comes to music.

I do love DTS NeuralX and DSU (Dolby Surround Upmix) where the surround effects are upmixed to actual real ceiling speakers.

I have heard height virtualization on a friend’s system because he doesn’t have ceiling speakers. It sounds absolutely nothing compared to actual ceiling speakers. But I guess it could be better than nothing. Like you said, YMMV.

 

[TechToys2]

That’s what I figured. Something tells me you might be in the same audio camp as I am - no Auto Room EQ for me.

I bypass Auto Room EQ. Then just do Manual Parametric EQ only for the Subwoofers from around 40-80Hz, +3.0dB, Q=0.5. But absolutely no EQ for any speakers, like for your Rotel.

I'm beginning to think that's right.

As a novice, how can I most closely replicate something like this on the Marantz? (Edit: Just looked back at your prior post).

I have a Rel subwoofer but have it set up using only the low level input as it is easier to deal with. Years ago at this point I had both the high and low levels connected. Perhaps I should reconnect the high level and try again. Might help for music.

 

[mazersteven]

I have a Rel subwoofer

 

[Sachb]

So I re-ran Audyssey and played around with it last night with both music (FLAC files streamed from my computer using a Sonos Connect and some CDs) and Netflix streamed using a Roku Ultra. I limited the eq filter to 300hz, and turned midrange compensation off.

I am going to continue to test different content but my mostly subjective thoughts so far are as follow.

First, Audyssey set the levels lower than when I set them manually myself (which I think I may have noted in another thread). This is no big deal, but I had to turn the volume up around 4 db higher while watching Netflix (same series I had watched the prior night) and the sound for whatever reason still didn't seem quite as punchy to me. FWIW, while watching I had Audyssey set to Reference, Dynamic EQ on and a Reference Level offset of 10 db (leaving it at 0 seemed to bloat the bass).

For music, with Dynamic EQ on and a 10 db reference offset, I preferred Audyssey on. Music seemed thin with it off. Switching between Reference, L/R Bypass and Flat produced varying results depending on the particular song/artist/genre. If I had to choose between the 3, I think Reference sounded best more consistently. Interestingly, and perhaps it was just my own perception based on the different levels, I felt as though music sounded better when I had the system set up manually without Audyssey than simply turning Audyssey off after running. I assume there should be no difference as Audyssey is off in both cases, so I chalk this up to the fleetingness of audio memory and my inability to compare side by side prior to running Audyssey.

For Netflix I felt the music part of the soundtrack sounded better with Audyssey on, but dialog was somewhat less clear. The dialog seemed muddier. I did not try it with dynamic volume last night, but my prior experience with it was mixed.

The bottom line is that I'm still not sure how I feel about the effects of Audyssey. There are times I prefer it and times I don't, but in either case (and expectation bias or not) I am still finding it difficult to recreate the emotional impact I frequently felt while listening to music and watching movies and other content with my Rotel.

Make sure you set the LFE to 120 HZ.

Also bass setting should ideally only be set to LFE only.

Don't use LFE + Main.

Hmm, its interesting to know that for you bass is bloated on 0 db, 0 db is what will give you the most impact, cause movies are recorded at that level, you can also try the 5 db offset.

Manual is gonna be a lot of work tho.

For music if you have speakers that go as low as 40 hz then use Pure direct.

Not just direct, but Pure direct is what you want, as it bypasses every eq and sends the signal directly to the speakers from the source.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[TechToys2]

View attachment 42633

I take it this is not a favored brand? Like my speakers and the old receiver. It is also 21 years old.

 

[mazersteven]

It is also 21 years old.

Like a child graduating college it's time to cut him/her loose

 

[Sachb]

@TechToys2 Try Restorer setting, play with the low, medium, or high setting.

Content on Netflix is usually encoded in dolby digital+ 5.1 which is a compressed format, you need to try using restorer settings to see if the mudiness is gone.

Check crossovers, set it to 80 hz & small.

Don't go beyond 120 hz, or else some of the vocals will be sent to the sub.
You will hear male vocals through sub.

Also, may I know how you're watching netflix, is it through TV(ARC) , blu ray or something else?

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[TechToys2]

Like a child graduating college it's time to cut him/her loose

Dare I ask what the issue is with Rel? FWIW , it's a Strata III. Not sure I'm ready to do so yet, but replacement suggestions?

 

[lovinthehd]

Rel tends to be over priced and under performing. Not horrible just so much better to choose from at better prices. The Strata III is okay for a 10" sub but nothing special, depending on your interests in extension it may be fine for your use. I wouldn't consider a Rel personally.

 

[TechToys2]

@TechToys2 Try Restorer setting, play with the low, medium, or high setting.

Content on Netflix is usually encoded in dolby digital+ 5.1 which is a compressed format, you need to try using restorer settings to see if the mudiness is gone.

Check crossovers, set it to 80 hz & small.

Don't go beyond 120 hz, or else some of the vocals will be sent to the sub.
You will hear male vocals through sub.

Also, may I know how you're watching netflix, is it through TV(ARC) , blu ray or something else?

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

By "restorer" function, I assume you mean M-Dax? I'll check. I'm not sure if that works for Dolby Digital, but maybe.

Crossovers are all set appropriately -- speakers small, crossover 80hz, subwoofer LFE @ 120 hz. Streaming Netflix through a Roku Ultra via HDMI.

 

[mazersteven]

Dare I ask what the issue is with Rel? FWIW , it's a Strata III.

No real issues they are a quality subwoofer generally small and overpriced for what is. There are Subs on the market that offer performance and a lot less cost

 

[TechToys2]

Rel tends to be over priced and under performing. Not horrible just so much better to choose from at better prices. The Strata III is okay for a 10" sub but nothing special, depending on your interests in extension it may be fine for your use. I wouldn't consider a Rel personally.

I suspect there were many fewer choices back when I bought the sub. At the time I remember it was recommended by the place I bought the rest of the system. I don't remember what else they carried... was a long time ago.

There is a lot more info available when shopping today, that's for sure.

 

[lovinthehd]

I suspect there were many fewer choices back when I bought the sub. At the time I remember it was recommended by the place I bought the rest of the system. I don't remember what else they carried... was a long time ago.

Definitely more choice these days, particularly in the US. They are marketed well to the magazines and stores. Many (most) of the better subs are internet direct these days.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I suspect there were many fewer choices back when I bought the sub. At the time I remember it was recommended by the place I bought the rest of the system. I don't remember what else they carried... was a long time ago.

Looks like it’s from 2009. From my short reading it seems like for its size, it was fairly good for its time. In fact it probably sounds good with most music in a smallish to medium sized room. However, it’s probably not lost on you that they’re are subs today that are more linear and better overall. Whether that matters to you, I surely can’t say. I would personally look at updating for my own needs though.