In praise of SMALL form factor PC cases: Why have these not picked up steam in a big way??

[lovinthehd]

Touch pads just are not very user friendly if trying to do any real work.

I have found that a wireless trackball works the best for me!

I tried a trackball when they were relatively new, while I was still working....that was okay. One of my customers way back was Mouse Systems....don't remember what happened to them. In my work and for the software/interfaces we used a mouse was of limited use, keyboard skills were far more important then....

 

[pcosmic]

I do play mainly RPGs. Witcher 3 alone my steam client says I have near 800 hours in it.
Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2.
I finished Disco Elysium recently - was a bit disappointed with a fairly short story. I really like Witcher like 100h+ gameplay.
Fighting games? Gawd, No. No way amiho. Just to try to remember even one finishing key combo is way to much for me.
As far as TV vs Monitor, I have dual Samsung CHG70 27" (144hz, 1440p) monitors, while my living room TV is bigger at 55" (and since it's plasma even faster), but I sit much further away from it, so monitor provides me with much wider field-of-view

WITCHER 3???.....OMG amiho,,,,,
What grave injustice have thee done to the stunning beauty of Skellige with a tiny 27" pc monitor? Move it to the 55" atleast (pronto).
What grave injustice have thee done to Marcin Przybylowicz's amazing soundtrack by listening to it on computer speakers?

OMG OMG OMG

P.S
Fighting games....Never fear young padawan. Lord Raiden will teach ya!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

WITCHER 3???.....OMG amiho,,,,,
What grave injustice have thee done to the stunning beauty of Skellige with a tiny 27" pc monitor? Move it to the 55" atleast (pronto).
What grave injustice have thee done to Marcin Przybylowicz's amazing soundtrack by listening to it on computer speakers?

OMG OMG OMG

P.S
Fighting games....Never fear young padawan. Lord Raiden will teach ya!

You missed the point of field-of-view. As for "computer speakers", mine slightly better than the average.
Using Behringer UMC404HD as my USB interface (24/192) to either my Sennheiser HD600 or balanced XLR a pair of JBL LSR2325p's.

 

[lovinthehd]

WITCHER 3???.....OMG amiho,,,,,
What grave injustice have thee done to the stunning beauty of Skellige with a tiny 27" pc monitor? Move it to the 55" atleast (pronto).
What grave injustice have thee done to Marcin Przybylowicz's amazing soundtrack by listening to it on computer speakers?

OMG OMG OMG

P.S
Fighting games....Never fear young padawan. Lord Raiden will teach ya! View attachment 42477

LOL saw this last night

 

[pcosmic]

LOL saw this last night

i saw this a coupla years ago. Conan's a beast.

 

[panteragstk]

The way I look at it is from a completely opposite angle, in the living room usability and 10ft interface (NO MOUSE or Tracker - I don't move a cursor on my TV)
Then I ask what could provide me with such usability - Can Kodi installed on top of Windows/Linux x86 box work - Sure it could, but would I need all that horsepower (and inevitably noise) just to play videos? Plus having full-blown general OS would also mean more manual maintenance sooner or later.
I always felt that just like separating audio processing and amplifying into separate boxes provides you with much better flexibility, the same goes for my living room media consumption.
In short, I rather have a small and simple media streamer device in the living room and a bigger server to be hidden away.
I used a bunch of various DIY solutions like various RasPi like boxes, commercial units, including a few FireTV and less known names. As long as I could Plex client running on it - it's generally good enough.
As far as gaming, I won't be the judge of it, as I strickly play PC games on my desktop PC setup, and I can't envision serious PC gaming with a mouse while sitting on the couch.
As for using a handheld controller, might as well just buy one of the new gaming consoles. God knows they are really packed with power nearly matching the high-end gaming pcs of today.

It's almost like you do this for a living...

Also, I agree. You probably figured that out though.

I have to say, I like to game in my theater, but can't stand not being at a "desk" with my keyboard and mouse. Controllers suck IMHO for FPS, but can work for other stuff. I got a Steam Controller when it came out and have barely used it.

However, I've had this on my wishlist for many years.

http://www.steigerdynamics.com/productcart/pc/configurePrd.asp?idproduct=375&time=2015327133057, 2015327211039, 2015327232413&time=2015328215925

I used to use an HTPC as my only source, but since 99% of my gaming is in my office where my consoles and gaming PC are I have no need for a gaming capable PC other than my main rig.

Shield TV's have filled any gap perfectly, and if I want to game, I can stream to any TV I have from my main PC. Works quite well.

I was using the Shield to play emulated games, but it has some issues with my retro controllers. My PC doesn't. I just use my 65" plasma as my second monitor and load the emulator front end there. Then I can play everything from Atari to Wii U and PS3 (which I can't believe works). The kids love it, but it was weird playing Mario Kart 8 with 2 PS3 controllers and 2 Xbox 360 controllers. My kids all had fun though and 4 player split screen is awesome.

 

[panteragstk]

WITCHER 3???.....OMG amiho,,,,,
What grave injustice have thee done to the stunning beauty of Skellige with a tiny 27" pc monitor? Move it to the 55" atleast (pronto).
What grave injustice have thee done to Marcin Przybylowicz's amazing soundtrack by listening to it on computer speakers?

OMG OMG OMG

P.S
Fighting games....Never fear young padawan. Lord Raiden will teach ya! View attachment 42477

While a large TV is pretty cool to play games on (my last gaming monitor was my 42" 1080p plasma) it doesn't compare to a G-Sync/Freesync ultra wide screen monitor. I can play in my theater with a 120" screen and 7.4.4 Atmos, but it's not nearly as good as my 34" 3440x1440 monitor. It's not even a contest.

 

[pcosmic]

While a large TV is pretty cool to play games on (my last gaming monitor was my 42" 1080p plasma) it doesn't compare to a G-Sync/Freesync ultra wide screen monitor. I can play in my theater with a 120" screen and 7.4.4 Atmos, but it's not nearly as good as my 34" 3440x1440 monitor. It's not even a contest.

Your monitor (if it also has very low input lag) can do you some favors in fighting games. TVs can't compete there. Otherwise, i'm not entirely sure how "it's not even a contest" on something like a RPG.

Also, 7.4.4 Atmos on a serious hometheater setup!!! How does that not beat out anything you may have on your pc speaker setup for sound?
(We are all audiophiles first remember)

 

[panteragstk]

Your monitor (if it also has very low input lag) can do you some favors in fighting games. TVs can't compete there. Otherwise, i'm not entirely sure how "it's not even a contest" on something like a RPG.

Also, 7.4.4 Atmos on a serious hometheater setup!!! How does that not beat out anything you may have on your pc speaker setup for sound?
(We are all audiophiles first remember)

When it comes to games, I'm smooth gameplay first. You can't touch variable refresh rate monitors when comparing to displays that have a static refresh. It's just not the same and you have to see it in person.

If I ever play PC games on a TV, it'll have to support variable refresh rates. Plus, 21:9 vs 16:9 aspect ratio is another no contest. 16:9 is great, but 21:9 is better for the games that support it. Plus, at my viewing distance it appears as big as my 120" screen anyway.

Audio is the only drawback of my system, but it doesn't make sense in my office to have a 5.1 PC setup and a 5.1 TV setup. I'd do it if I could, but I can't. I used to have a 4.1 system way back when, but it got annoying moving the rear speakers every time I wanted to play.

 

[pcosmic]

When it comes to games, I'm smooth gameplay first. You can't touch variable refresh rate monitors when comparing to displays that have a static refresh. It's just not the same and you have to see it in person.

If I ever play PC games on a TV, it'll have to support variable refresh rates. Plus, 21:9 vs 16:9 aspect ratio is another no contest. 16:9 is great, but 21:9 is better for the games that support it. Plus, at my viewing distance it appears as big as my 120" screen anyway.

Audio is the only drawback of my system, but it doesn't make sense in my office to have a 5.1 PC setup and a 5.1 TV setup. I'd do it if I could, but I can't. I used to have a 4.1 system way back when, but it got annoying moving the rear speakers every time I wanted to play.

Here you go amiho, 77inches, it's got your Nvida Gsync Freesync whatever 120hz...pretty low lag actually
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0829RYR8L/ref=twister_B08HKJ412D?_encoding=UTF8&th=1

Here you go amiho, 85 inches
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MVZMD4C?tag=georiot-us-default-20&th=1&ascsubtag=tomsguide-us-1419066925455641300-20

I guess LG has a 105inch 21:9,,,,but, the price looks ....ahem...
On second thought, looks like these tvs have come a long way in the last few years. i may need an upgrade...

 

[panteragstk]

Here you go amiho, 77inches, it's got your Nvida Gsync Freesync whatever 120hz...pretty low lag actually
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0829RYR8L/ref=twister_B08HKJ412D?_encoding=UTF8&th=1

Here you go amiho, 85 inches
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MVZMD4C?tag=georiot-us-default-20&th=1&ascsubtag=tomsguide-us-1419066925455641300-20

I guess LG has a 105inch 21:9,,,,but, the price looks ....ahem...
On second thought, looks like these tvs have come a long way in the last few years. i may need an upgrade...

I'm aware that they exist, don't need a new TV right now. That's why I said that if I bought a new TV it'd have VRR. Bonus that it'll be an OLED, but that has to wait for my plasma to die on it's own. Priority #1 for me is getting my theater a 4k HDR projector. If I found one that had VRR then I'd have to seriously consider gaming with it quite often.

 

[Cos]

As someone who builds PCs for friends and upgrades often, I thought about trying to do a mini-ATX. For a HTPC it's a logical choice. When you throw in a high end gaming unit, it becomes more of a challenge, mainly due to heat. You have CPU's with more cores, generating more heat and the high end GPUs from AMD & Nvidia are extremely large, and might present a challenge for most Mini/Micro ATX cases. I have an eVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 Ultra, and that basically takes up 3 slots by itself for cooling. I believe the AMD cards are a a little smaller, but run at higher clock speeds which can generate more heat. Liquid cooling would be an option, but you really don't have the space, even for closed loop.

If you really want high spec gaming PC for your HTPC I would be curious how it works out. When I am playing Watchdogs 3 or Cyberpunk 2077 my system generates a LOT of heat. I can't image it in a cabinet. Then again I am one of those nerds who has the large Mid-tower case to have room for fans. I also recently pre-ordered a waterblock for my GPU as I will be building an open loop liquid cooling system for that. I still use a closed loop for my CPU.

I did pull up that Syber PC and they do not use any higher end cards, the biggest currently in the system is the RTX 3060. It has two slots, the AMD cards take up 2 slots at a minimum which would minimal airflow which is not a good thing. I would also upgrade the PS, I would go to at least 750W. At peek load the GPU can consume 400+ watts by itself

If you are looking to build that type of system, I think Silverstone does a very good job of making cases that would fit in a Home Theater

SilverStone - Computer Chassis (silverstonetek.com)
I would go with the GD08 or GD07 for the extra wiggle room for your video card, it should fit a 6900XT fine.

 

[pcosmic]

As someone who builds PCs for friends and upgrades often, I thought about trying to do a mini-ATX. For a HTPC it's a logical choice. When you throw in a high end gaming unit, it becomes more of a challenge, mainly due to heat. You have CPU's with more cores, generating more heat and the high end GPUs from AMD & Nvidia are extremely large, and might present a challenge for most Mini/Micro ATX cases. I have an eVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 Ultra, and that basically takes up 3 slots by itself for cooling. I believe the AMD cards are a a little smaller, but run at higher clock speeds which can generate more heat. Liquid cooling would be an option, but you really don't have the space, even for closed loop.

If you really want high spec gaming PC for your HTPC I would be curious how it works out. When I am playing Watchdogs 3 or Cyberpunk 2077 my system generates a LOT of heat. I can't image it in a cabinet. Then again I am one of those nerds who has the large Mid-tower case to have room for fans. I also recently pre-ordered a waterblock for my GPU as I will be building an open loop liquid cooling system for that. I still use a closed loop for my CPU.

I did pull up that Syber PC and they do not use any higher end cards, the biggest currently in the system is the RTX 3060. It has two slots, the AMD cards take up 2 slots at a minimum which would minimal airflow which is not a good thing. I would also upgrade the PS, I would go to at least 750W. At peek load the GPU can consume 400+ watts by itself

If you are looking to build that type of system, I think Silverstone does a very good job of making cases that would fit in a Home Theater

SilverStone - Computer Chassis (silverstonetek.com)
I would go with the GD08 or GD07 for the extra wiggle room for your video card, it should fit a 6900XT fine.

Thanks for the suggestion on the silverstone cases

 

[highfigh]

I wish I knew the answer to your question. I have two HTPCs, one medium sized and one very small.

I would say that both those units are the most used peripherals in both systems.

You have digitized your music and video catalogs? What are you using to navigate your collections, or do you use a BD player for those? How do you navigate for streaming- directly from their website?

 

[TLS Guy]

You have digitized your music and video catalogs? What are you using to navigate your collections, or do you use a BD player for those? How do you navigate for streaming- directly from their website?

For audio only I use the DAW. If it is video I use the HTPC. I don't have any trouble getting what I want. I can access the UK as the VPN to the London Amazon server is loaded on all three units. I only play discs on the disc players.

 

[ellisr63]

All I use anymore are mIni PCs... I stream from my USB HDDs all my music and 30TB of movies. I fell in love with the mini pc idea back in the 80s when Intel showed them at COMDEX. Only my NAS (which is used for storage omly )is has a full size case, and I hope to move that much smaller when the 25TB and 50TB HDDs come out

Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk

 

[pcosmic]

As someone who builds PCs for friends and upgrades often, I thought about trying to do a mini-ATX. For a HTPC it's a logical choice. When you throw in a high end gaming unit, it becomes more of a challenge, mainly due to heat. You have CPU's with more cores, generating more heat and the high end GPUs from AMD & Nvidia are extremely large, and might present a challenge for most Mini/Micro ATX cases. I have an eVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 Ultra, and that basically takes up 3 slots by itself for cooling. I believe the AMD cards are a a little smaller, but run at higher clock speeds which can generate more heat. Liquid cooling would be an option, but you really don't have the space, even for closed loop.

If you really want high spec gaming PC for your HTPC I would be curious how it works out. When I am playing Watchdogs 3 or Cyberpunk 2077 my system generates a LOT of heat. I can't image it in a cabinet. Then again I am one of those nerds who has the large Mid-tower case to have room for fans. I also recently pre-ordered a waterblock for my GPU as I will be building an open loop liquid cooling system for that. I still use a closed loop for my CPU.

I did pull up that Syber PC and they do not use any higher end cards, the biggest currently in the system is the RTX 3060. It has two slots, the AMD cards take up 2 slots at a minimum which would minimal airflow which is not a good thing. I would also upgrade the PS, I would go to at least 750W. At peek load the GPU can consume 400+ watts by itself

If you are looking to build that type of system, I think Silverstone does a very good job of making cases that would fit in a Home Theater

SilverStone - Computer Chassis (silverstonetek.com)
I would go with the GD08 or GD07 for the extra wiggle room for your video card, it should fit a 6900XT fine.

I pounced like a leopard when Zotac's 1080Ti mini came out 3 years ago. Do you think a mini version of the RTX3080 or 6800 XT may be in the works from Zotac? I can wait if that's the case.

 

[panteragstk]

I pounced like a leopard when Zotac's 1080Ti mini came out 3 years ago. Do you think a mini version of the RTX3080 or 6800 XT may be in the works from Zotac? I can wait if that's the case.

Zotac is usually the company that puts the powerful GPUs into a smaller form factor so if you can, wait. You'll probably have a long wait though since both cards recently came out. I still haven't gotten my notification to step up from my 3070 to the 3080 FTW, but I'm fine until then.

It makes it much easier that I have a huge full tower case. I tried the mini ATX and ITX route once and am not a fan of the tight confines of those types of cases. My last "real" HTPC case was a large full size desktop case that fit right in with my theater rack. No issues putting large video cards in that one. Silverstone makes quite a few different ones that are similar.

What' I'd keep an eye out for if you still want to go the small case route is one that has a PCIe riser card so you can rotate the GPU so it fits in a smaller case. I'll see if I can find some examples.

 

[Trell]

...It makes it much easier that I have a huge full tower case. I tried the mini ATX and ITX route once and am not a fan of the tight confines of those types of cases. My last "real" HTPC case was a large full size desktop case that fit right in with my theater rack. No issues putting large video cards in that one. Silverstone makes quite a few different ones that are similar. ...

I've the huge tower case case as well as two passively cooled, smalls box PC with integrated graphics. Works like a charm, and is SILENT. Even the big full tower. No fans, no dust, no noise, except for electronic noise which I don't have.

 

[pcosmic]

Zotac is usually the company that puts the powerful GPUs into a smaller form factor so if you can, wait. You'll probably have a long wait though since both cards recently came out. I still haven't gotten my notification to step up from my 3070 to the 3080 FTW, but I'm fine until then.

It makes it much easier that I have a huge full tower case. I tried the mini ATX and ITX route once and am not a fan of the tight confines of those types of cases. My last "real" HTPC case was a large full size desktop case that fit right in with my theater rack. No issues putting large video cards in that one. Silverstone makes quite a few different ones that are similar.

What' I'd keep an eye out for if you still want to go the small case route is one that has a PCIe riser card so you can rotate the GPU so it fits in a smaller case. I'll see if I can find some examples.

Yes, a riser card is a godsend (i remember the days when such a thing didn't exist!).
I understand the cons associated with suboptimal case cooling and other restrictions when trying to build a high performance machine in a tiny case. Weighing the pros/cons, i am willing to put up with it due to work travel. In non-covid times, i need to travel for work and i'm stuck in a hotel room every month for 7 to 10 days. Being able to throw a tiny pc in my hand carry and zip through airports is worth the trouble for me. The alternative is to hug the hotel bar till midnight and end up in bed with some headache inducing hag. I'd be a whole lot happier 4k gaming in my room instead. I am too old to a) hug the hotelbar till midnight & b) too old to attract anything attractive.