Denon/Marantz vs Yamaha vs Anthem Thread

[Movie2099]

Yeah, just completely different philosophy.

McIntosh is nothing compared to Yamaha in terms of overall global finance.

But McIntosh caters only to the high-end crowd. Yamaha and DM cater to everyone.

I see that Yamaha's audio side has had $1.09 billion in sales in 2019. Since 2012 they have a total of $7.88 billion in sales.

 

[Movie2099]

If we look at Sony, their home entertainment and sound division has an avg of $10 billion in sales each year. Of that $10B not sure what is specifically the revenue is from speakers, AVR's, etc.. I'd say most of that is coming from their TV's and possibly Playstations.

 

[lovinthehd]

Seems you need to buy a report for McIntosh but see one bit of info that says sales is less than $50M annually....

 

[Movie2099]

Seems you need to buy a report for McIntosh but see one bit of info that says sales is less than $50M annually....

yeah It was hard to find specific numbers. One site said revenue was at $5.5 million as of May 2020 and another site said revenue was around $50million. So not sure what to believe. Either way, McIntosh definitely caters to a specific demographic and will never touch, revenue wise, the likes of Sony or Yamaha.

 

[pcosmic]

If we look at Sony, their home entertainment and sound division has an avg of $10 billion in sales each year. Of that $10B not sure what is specifically the revenue is from speakers, AVR's, etc.. I'd say most of that is coming from their TV's and possibly Playstations.

Sony makes ~2.5 billion per year on playstation plus account subscription fees alone (charging gamer dudes for their online play access).

 

[Verdinut]

What is McIntosh's R&D funding per year? A million at most? Prestigious? These fckwits used to copy Pioneer amps all day long back in the days. Ask the president of audioholics, he may confirm it for you if he managed to test a few of them.. Hope they've managed to learn something by now. Nah man...It is just another brand name associated with audiophool snobbery. It sure did make you feel real prestigious, didn't it?...bwaaaahahaha

P.S Nope...and price isn't the issue for me btw

If McIntosh used to copy Pioneer amps in the past, it wouldn't surprise me. In the 1970's In Montreal, and I'm sure in other large cities as well, Mcintosh reps did conduct audio clinics in hi-fi shops selling their products. They were offering to test amps from other manufacturers to compare their performance against their own products. But they were also using a Variac, a transformer with which you can vary the output voltage. When they were testing an amp from another manufacturer, they lowered the output voltage to 95 volts to jeopardize its performance.

 

[Sachb]

So he wasn't able to setup his X8500 the way he had hoped.

Should follow up to see if he has better luck with the Anthem since Anthem ARC is a lot more difficult to set up than Audyssey. Unless he is not using any kind of Room Correction (like me ).

Its not about setting up right or anything, more of Denon underperforming.

Just play some bass heavy Hip hop on Pure Direct, and see how much bass the yamaha puts out. It'll be plenty that you won't even need a subwoofer provided your speakers can go as low as 40 hz or lower.

As far as I know Pure direct on Denon was nowhere close to yamaha's.

Yamaha is a beast!!

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[Sax-Fan]

Its not about setting up right or anything, more of Denon underperforming.

Just play some bass heavy Hip hop on Pure Direct, and see how much bass the yamaha puts out. It'll be plenty that you won't even need a subwoofer provided your speakers can go as low as 40 hz or lower.

As far as I know Pure direct on Denon was nowhere close to yamaha's.

Yamaha is a beast!!

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I've been reading your posts with Denon bashing for some time. I don't own a Denon, so I'm not going to opine on their sound/quality. And I don't want to get into a flame war. I do want to point out, however, for those who haven't looked, that you tout on your blog how wonderful the Denon sounds, including its bass. It's hard to take your opinion seriously when you aren't consistent in your own writing.

From your blog post reviewing the Denon 2300W:

Sound

The Sound is the Main aspect of any Reciever in the market, and Denon without a doubt surpasses my expectations. I've tested various tracks including the "Chriss Isaak's Wicked Game", "Dire Strait- You & Your Friend".

To me, they sound wonderful, and vocals are very clear, and what I like more is that the Denon's low-end i.e the bass on Wicked Game is very Pronounced & can hear each beat along with the instruments, like the guitar etc. It feels that the instruments are being played right in front of you.
This was for the Music.

Now for Movies, this Denon is a Monster.

All it takes is the right setting and the right Volume to enjoy the heart-thumping effects directly at you. If you have come across a Movie named " American Sniper", you must have noticed that there are various scenes in which sound effects take place, such as the shooting, blasting sounds etc.

I loved watching the movie "American Sniper" because of the added sound effects. The Denon pretty much has the "WoW" effect left on every person who is watching the movie which is encoded in 5.1/7.1 and various audio formats such as the Dolby Digital, DTS etc.

 

[Sachb]

I've been reading your posts with Denon bashing for some time. I don't own a Denon, so I'm not going to opine on their sound/quality. And I don't want to get into a flame war. I do want to point out, however, for those who haven't looked, that you tout on your blog how wonderful the Denon sounds, including its bass. It's hard to take your opinion seriously when you aren't consistent in your own writing.

From your blog post reviewing the Denon 2300W:

Sound

The Sound is the Main aspect of any Reciever in the market, and Denon without a doubt surpasses my expectations. I've tested various tracks including the "Chriss Isaak's Wicked Game", "Dire Strait- You & Your Friend".

To me, they sound wonderful, and vocals are very clear, and what I like more is that the Denon's low-end i.e the bass on Wicked Game is very Pronounced & can hear each beat along with the instruments, like the guitar etc. It feels that the instruments are being played right in front of you.
This was for the Music.

Now for Movies, this Denon is a Monster.

All it takes is the right setting and the right Volume to enjoy the heart-thumping effects directly at you. If you have come across a Movie named " American Sniper", you must have noticed that there are various scenes in which sound effects take place, such as the shooting, blasting sounds etc.

I loved watching the movie "American Sniper" because of the added sound effects. The Denon pretty much has the "WoW" effect left on every person who is watching the movie which is encoded in 5.1/7.1 and various audio formats such as the Dolby Digital, DTS etc.

Ok, I wrote this earlier but did you see which track I was referring to?

It's Chris Isaak, that track doesn't require much effort. Its a slow track, for heaven's sake read and process, what I write.

If you play any modern day music on Denon, then forget that you even have a hi-fi system. It'll sound like a soundbar. Rap, hip hop are some examples.

This, current Yamaha reciever which I have puts out some serious bass, I turned up the volume to 60 and could feel hefty punch and no distortion at all, pure clean output. Even Spotify sounds wonderful with heavy pounding bass.

Haven't you yet done an A/B comparison for yourself?? For god's sake get your favourite tracks play on both side by side,
Yamaha will surely sound better, and its not slightly better, its miles better then Denon.






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[Sachb]

I've been reading your posts with Denon bashing for some time. I don't own a Denon, so I'm not going to opine on their sound/quality. And I don't want to get into a flame war. I do want to point out, however, for those who haven't looked, that you tout on your blog how wonderful the Denon sounds, including its bass. It's hard to take your opinion seriously when you aren't consistent in your own writing.

From your blog post reviewing the Denon 2300W:

Sound

The Sound is the Main aspect of any Reciever in the market, and Denon without a doubt surpasses my expectations. I've tested various tracks including the "Chriss Isaak's Wicked Game", "Dire Strait- You & Your Friend".

To me, they sound wonderful, and vocals are very clear, and what I like more is that the Denon's low-end i.e the bass on Wicked Game is very Pronounced & can hear each beat along with the instruments, like the guitar etc. It feels that the instruments are being played right in front of you.
This was for the Music.

Now for Movies, this Denon is a Monster.

All it takes is the right setting and the right Volume to enjoy the heart-thumping effects directly at you. If you have come across a Movie named " American Sniper", you must have noticed that there are various scenes in which sound effects take place, such as the shooting, blasting sounds etc.

I loved watching the movie "American Sniper" because of the added sound effects. The Denon pretty much has the "WoW" effect left on every person who is watching the movie which is encoded in 5.1/7.1 and various audio formats such as the Dolby Digital, DTS etc.

Idk if its true or not but there is some sort of talk on Denons limiting their current on their amp.

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[Gmoney]

Its not about setting up right or anything, more of Denon underperforming.

Just play some bass heavy Hip hop on Pure Direct, and see how much bass the yamaha puts out. It'll be plenty that you won't even need a subwoofer provided your speakers can go as low as 40 hz or lower.

As far as I know Pure direct on Denon was nowhere close to yamaha's.

Yamaha is a beast!!

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[William Lemmerhirt]

He says “its not about setup”.
I guess when it looks like this.....

Yes. It’s sachb’s.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I've been reading your posts with Denon bashing for some time. I don't own a Denon, so I'm not going to opine on their sound/quality. And I don't want to get into a flame war. I do want to point out, however, for those who haven't looked, that you tout on your blog how wonderful the Denon sounds, including its bass. It's hard to take your opinion seriously when you aren't consistent in your own writing.

From your blog post reviewing the Denon 2300W:

Sound

The Sound is the Main aspect of any Reciever in the market, and Denon without a doubt surpasses my expectations. I've tested various tracks including the "Chriss Isaak's Wicked Game", "Dire Strait- You & Your Friend".

To me, they sound wonderful, and vocals are very clear, and what I like more is that the Denon's low-end i.e the bass on Wicked Game is very Pronounced & can hear each beat along with the instruments, like the guitar etc. It feels that the instruments are being played right in front of you.
This was for the Music.

Now for Movies, this Denon is a Monster.

All it takes is the right setting and the right Volume to enjoy the heart-thumping effects directly at you. If you have come across a Movie named " American Sniper", you must have noticed that there are various scenes in which sound effects take place, such as the shooting, blasting sounds etc.

I loved watching the movie "American Sniper" because of the added sound effects. The Denon pretty much has the "WoW" effect left on every person who is watching the movie which is encoded in 5.1/7.1 and various audio formats such as the Dolby Digital, DTS etc.

Pretty much said the same in the review he posted on AVS. That’s mysteriously missing too...

 

[Sax-Fan]

Ok, I wrote this earlier but did you see which track I was referring to?

It's Chris Isaak, that track doesn't require much effort. Its a slow track, for heaven's sake read and process, what I write.

" I've tested various tracks including the "Chriss Isaak's Wicked Game", "Dire Strait- You & Your Friend".

"To me, they sound wonderful"

As I said, I'm not interested in a war. I'm not even saying anything about your opinion. It's your opinion and you are welcome to it. As I mentioned, I don't own a Denon and never have, so I don't have an opinion on the subject.

But my reading comprehension is very good, thank you. It says you tested various tracks and they sounded wonderful. And your review had no caveats about style of music, etc. So if there were any, there is no way for anyone to know that. If your opinion has changed, that's fine. But please don't insult my intelligence. Thanks.

That's it from me on this .

 

[Trebdp83]

Well said. We try to keep the forums from stinking up too badly, so if you could spray a bit of that Febreze left for your convenience on that dead horse, it would be much appreciated.

 

[Sachb]

" I've tested various tracks including the "Chriss Isaak's Wicked Game", "Dire Strait- You & Your Friend".

"To me, they sound wonderful"

As I said, I'm not interested in a war. I'm not even saying anything about your opinion. It's your opinion and you are welcome to it. As I mentioned, I don't own a Denon and never have, so I don't have an opinion on the subject.

But my reading comprehension is very good, thank you. It says you tested various tracks and they sounded wonderful. And your review had no caveats about style of music, etc. So if there were any, there is no way for anyone to know that. If your opinion has changed, that's fine. But please don't insult my intelligence. Thanks.

That's it from me on this .

Bare with me, but since you had the need to copy paste half of my blog, i'll tell you this, there is always something better out there and we don't know it as we haven't tested them yet.

And since you said you haven't got any experience in Denon, you countering me becomes trully pointless.

I've had 2 denons in the past, & it was my mistake that I bought them, cause I didn't do my research well enough. I went with the hype that was once created by some audiophiles, and suffered all these years with poor stereo performance. Lack of details, lack of midbass/mids.
There were surely some good moments, but majority of the time it was bad.

I had to use the audyssey to boost the dialogue volume on denon, with Yamaha I rarely had to do that. To get the Denon sound good or say decent, it requires more effort then the Yamaha. Trust me.

One guy named "John" said the same, he didn't like his new X4500H reciever but preferred his $250 Onkyo for movies.

I'm not the only one arguing about it, there are plenty of people out there now.
One example being in this forum itself, someone recently opened a new thread Hagel H90 vs Denon something. Go read that.

You won't believe us until you hear it yourself. Mark my words.

Mr. William here in this forum hasn't done an A/B comparison so he doesn't know what we have experienced.

You don't feel the sound by looking at measurements alone, your ears are the witness. There are some things which are immeseaurable.

Also, let me ask you one simple question. Can you measure your ears? Is there any proof that every flat curve is same in every brands of reciever?

Ask this to yourself and then come back to me.



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[Sachb]

He says “its not about setup”.
I guess when it looks like this.....

Yes. It’s sachb’s.

Woah, you even took a screenshot, as if this is $1000 mistake. I really feel pity for you, that bullying me is your only way to make you feel better. If it helps you in any way go for it.

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[pcosmic]

Pretty much said the same in the review he posted on AVS. That’s mysteriously missing too...

Hmm, so it appears that the guy liked a Denon once upon a time and he finds that something else (a Yam in this case) sounds or caters better to his taste/requirements. What is so absurd about that?? Is that reason to go Sherlock on him and try to find every old post of his? and prove what?

I am sure everyone's lived with some crappy audio gear at some point in life and thought it was good until they heard something better (something which may let them realize what a crappy thing they put up with for too long)

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hmm, so it appears that the guy liked a Denon once upon a time and he finds that something else (a Yam in this case) sounds or caters better to his taste/requirements. What is so absurd about that?? Is that reason to go Sherlock on him and try to find every old post of his? and prove what?

I am sure everyone's lived with some crappy audio gear at some point in life (and thought it was good) until they heard something better.

Fair points. In fact even my own gear would be considered crappy by many. And no, the screenshot was a from links he provided to his own videos. I also happened to remember him from avs and the review so not much digging there.
I don’t care what anybody likes for gear. There’s a LOT of different stuff out there, and what you like is what you like. My problem is the way he’s going about it. ZERO credible testing, or measurements of any kind. I’ve asked him questions which were not answered but glossed over and twisted into something else altogether. He won’t answer me, but I gave him a very detailed answer to a pointed question. So Fukk him.
The other thing, and what spurred me on was in a thread of similar situations, the only and first reply he made was(paraphrase) for music denon sucks and Yamaha is miles better. No qualifiers.... just blatantly waving the Yamaha flag. This is NOT OK for newbs that come looking for advice. Context matters as you well know so blanket statements(which is all he provides) need not apply.
So no. Nothing is absurd about that he likes his Yamaha. IDGAF. But don’t just blast off aimlessly.
I do apologize to the collective here for stinking up the thread. But I think it’s important for newbs not to be swayed by bullshitt, so I’ll probably keep it up. Until he leaves or gets the ban hammer.
The screenshot was just to illustrate lack of credibility which anyone else here already has dismissed. But in My mind, I’m watching out for noobs who might buy into his non objective BS.
Edit: if you have nothing to do. Search his user name and browse. You’ll see.

 

[Sachb]

Hmm, so it appears that the guy liked a Denon once upon a time and he finds that something else (a Yam in this case) sounds or caters better to his taste/requirements. What is so absurd about that?? Is that reason to go Sherlock on him and try to find every old post of his? and prove what?

I am sure everyone's lived with some crappy audio gear at some point in life and thought it was good until they heard something better (something which may let them realize what a crappy thing they put up with for too long)

Spot on, infact I would've never bought a Denon if I knew it was this bad for the stereo listening. My first eye opener was, when I connected my old boston satellites to my very old Dvd deck reciever at home. This was when I realised I wasted my $870 for a crappy Denon X2300W.

I have nothing against Denon, but the thing is that, if I'm spending a premium price tag for something thats performing like a complete garbage then obviously anyone might loose the cool, cause you have to live with it for years.

I have also demoed one Denon X4000 series, in a well treated room. The guy had poped in some DTS demo disc, & instantly one thing came on my mind, it was sharp, harsh, ear fatiguing.

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