Hegel H90 vs Denon AVR-X4700H (Stereo use)

[VMPS-TIII]

I have been using the Hegel H90 with my BMR's for stereo in my office for the last month. The Hegel H90 is rated at 60W a channel. It's an integrated amp with a USB port along with several other inputs. The Hegel H90 shows up as a sound card on the MBP when a USB cable connects the computer to the H90.

Philharmonic Audio

philharmonicaudio.com

As the Hegel H90 has a relatively low 60W rating I wondered how the 125W Denon AVR-X4700H would work as a replacement for powering the BMRs.

What did I find?
The Denon 4700 sounds like WEAK SAUCE compared to the Hegel H90. I have to turn up the Denon to 65 to get the same volume level as the Hegel H90 at a 50 volume setting. And even then the bass sounds weak and that's with Denon Dynamic EQ turned on the 4700. The H90 has no EQ settings just awesome sound and power.

The Denon sounds so weak in an A/B blind test that I guessed it was the 60W amp and the Hegel H90 was the 125W. I am blown away. I never would have guessed the difference would be this HUGE. The Hegel H90 sounds so much better than the 4700 in this stereo BMR side by side test.

What did I learn?
1. Rated Watts on an amp may not mean as much as I thought.
2. If you have a speaker with a super flat response, you probably don't want any EQ.
3. Side by side, listening comparison tests are much more helpful than ANY spec!

 

[Beave]

You can't compare amp power by comparing the volume control settings. They don't necessarily track each other or have the same scale. Different volume controls ramp up at different rates. 60 on one isn't the same as 60 on another brand, and that has nothing to do with amp power.

Also, to do a proper A/B comparison, you need to level-match and be able to switch quickly back and forth between the two units. How did you do that?

 

[VMPS-TIII]

You can't compare amp power by comparing the volume control settings. They don't necessarily track each other or have the same scale. Different volume controls ramp up at different rates. 60 on one isn't the same as 60 on another brand, and that has nothing to do with amp power.

Also, to do a proper A/B comparison, you need to level-match and be able to switch quickly back and forth between the two units. How did you do that?

I sure did. Denon didn't compare at all. The quality of sound wasn't even close. Hegel H90 beat Denon 4700 by a mile. I was shocked how big the difference was.

 

[Beave]

You sure did what? Level match? If so, how? Quick switch? If so, how?

 

[lovinthehd]

You sure did what? How did you level match? How did you quick switch between the two units?

 

[lovinthehd]

LOL @Beave same thoughts....

 

[Beave]

You sure did what? How did you level match? How did you quick switch between the two units?

Good questions!

 

[VMPS-TIII]

1. Setup Hegel H90 and Denon 4700 side by side.
2. Use the same source for playback.
3. Level match both to 70dB.
4. Listen to Denon 4700 with BMR's. (Optimize config for best sound quality)
5. Simply switch banana plugs, listen to same song with Hegel H90.
6. Continue switching back and forth by turning off unit and switch banana plugs, until you discover the differences.

After several times switching the sound quality difference is amazingly obvious and easily identifiable.. The Hegel sounds so much better it's crazy.

 

[lovinthehd]

So sighted rather than blind. What does #4 mean optimize config? Both weren't tested in pure direct type mode? Did you use pink noise or ? and what was the resolution of the measuring device (could you match within .1 dB rather than whole numbers?).

 

[VMPS-TIII]

So sighted rather than blind. What does #4 mean optimize config? Both weren't tested in pure direct type mode? Did you use pink noise or ? and what was the resolution of the measuring device (could you match within .1 dB rather than whole numbers?).

Denon always sounds weak in pure direct mode in my home. I find using Audyssey with DEQ usually sounds better. In this case, I tried the Denon 4700 with and without EQ so I could compare the best possible sound the 4700 can offer.

The sound quality in the bass and midrange with the Hegel H90 is so much fuller and controlled. It wasn't even a fair fight. No matter what I write you would have to hear it to believe the depth of the difference. It's night and day. The Hegel has no EQ settings. Just great sound.

Even if I test while playing the Denon substantially louder than the Hegel, the BMR sounds a lot cleaner and more satisfying with the Hegel H90.

 

[lovinthehd]

Denon always sounds weak in pure direct mode in my home. I find using Audyssey with DEQ usually sounds better. In this case, I tried the Denon 4700 with and without EQ so I could compare the best possible sound the 4700 can offer.

The sound quality in the bass and midrange with the Hegel H90 is so much fuller and controlled. It wasn't even a fair fight. No matter what I write you would have to hear it to believe the depth of the difference. It's night and day. The Hegel has no EQ settings. Just great sound.

Even if I test while playing the Denon substantially louder than the Hegel, the BMR sounds a lot cleaner and more satisfying with the Hegel H90.

I would like to hear the difference but that's not too likely due where I am and how much interest I have in traveling for audio. I'm glad you like the Hegel better, but the great differences are nothing I've experienced just with different amps.

 

[Truthslayer]

Denon always sounds weak in pure direct mode in my home. I find using Audyssey with DEQ usually sounds better. In this case, I tried the Denon 4700 with and without EQ so I could compare the best possible sound the 4700 can offer.

The sound quality in the bass and midrange with the Hegel H90 is so much fuller and controlled. It wasn't even a fair fight. No matter what I write you would have to hear it to believe the depth of the difference. It's night and day. The Hegel has no EQ settings. Just great sound.

Even if I test while playing the Denon substantially louder than the Hegel, the BMR sounds a lot cleaner and more satisfying with the Hegel H90.

I think i get what your trying to say. The Hegel feels like that 14 ounce steak that's just been sat in front of you, while Denon feels like somebody's already picked off all the meat clean down to the bone.
While in theory all amplification processes should sound the same, in reality it's not always the case.
Gene's discussed this before, comes down to the quality of parts being used.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

I would like to hear the difference but that's not too likely due where I am and how much interest I have in traveling for audio. I'm glad you like the Hegel better, but the great differences are nothing I've experienced just with different amps.

I use a Denon 4700 in my home theatre. It works great for 7.2.4. Obviously, the Hegel H90 can't handle that job at all. So when I had a 2nd Denon 4700 I thought it might be worth a try with Stereo mode in the office. Boy was I wrong.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Denon always sounds weak in pure direct mode in my home. I find using Audyssey with DEQ usually sounds better. In this case, I tried the Denon 4700 with and without EQ so I could compare the best possible sound the 4700 can offer.

The sound quality in the bass and midrange with the Hegel H90 is so much fuller and controlled. It wasn't even a fair fight. No matter what I write you would have to hear it to believe the depth of the difference. It's night and day. The Hegel has no EQ settings. Just great sound.

Even if I test while playing the Denon substantially louder than the Hegel, the BMR sounds a lot cleaner and more satisfying with the Hegel H90.

I wonder if the Hegel has some kind of built-in manual EQ +3dB boost from 40Hz-100Hz without having to do anything?

Maybe they figured that‘s what sounds best to many people, so they just fixed it.

That’s what I do for my Yamaha - I shut off Auto EQ, but use manual Parametric EQ to boost the bass +3dB from 40-100Hz. The difference is, of course, night and day vs Direct Mode or any mode that doesn’t boost the bass from 40-100Hz by +3dB.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

I think i get what your trying to say. The Hegel feels like that 14 ounce steak that's just been sat in front of you, while Denon feels like somebody's already picked off all the meat clean down to the bone.
While in theory all amplification processes should sound the same, in reality it's not always the case.
Gene's discussed this before, comes down to the quality of parts being used.

The parts inside the Hegel H90 are totally different. It's designed for Stereo from the ground up. It does not support 9 channels with amps or 11 channels of pre-outs like the Denon 4700.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think i get what your trying to say. The Hegel feels like that 14 ounce steak that's just been sat in front of you, while Denon feels like somebody's already picked off all the meat clean down to the bone.
While in theory all amplification processes should sound the same, in reality it's not always the case.
Gene's discussed this before, comes down to the quality of parts being used.

Gotta link to Gene's comments in that regard?

 

[Truthslayer]

Gotta link to Gene's comments in that regard?

Go look at his video and the review he posted about separates and multi-channel avr's. No, i dont feel like looking for the post or vid, but it was probably only a year ago. We discussed this before on the forum and this was one of the reason he made the video and post's.
He clearly stated most multi-channel avr's are not going to sound as good as a unit made purely for stereo reproduction. Due to the fact all of the components crammed into an avr, all crammed together, compromises have to be made with all the electronic components necessary to make an avr. While designing a strictly stereo component usually requires less electronic components and there is more room to work with. Plus it affords the luxury of less parts used more money can be spent on better internal parts. Sorry long winded i know, im tired and probably veering off track, but i think you get my point.

I get it Lovin, you being skeptical, totally understand. And i don't blame if you don't recall Genes video or post and don't feel like searching for it at this hour. Just shoot Gene a message, im sure he will be happy to give you a quick answer.

 

[Truthslayer]

The parts inside the Hegel H90 are totally different. It's designed for Stereo from the ground up. It does not support 9 channels with amps or 11 channels of pre-outs like the Denon 4700.

I understand exactly what your saying and totally agree. The steak analogy was bad attempt for some humor to help some understand the difference. You don't need to convince me or provide the difference in the quality of parts being used in these units.

 

[lovinthehd]

Go look at his video and the review he posted about separates and multi-channel avr's. No, i dont feel like looking for the post or vid, but it was probably only a year ago. We discussed this before on the forum and this was one of the reason he made the video and post's.
He clearly stated most multi-channel avr's are not going to sound as good as a unit made purely for stereo reproduction. Due to the fact all of the components crammed into an avr compromises have to be made.
I get it Lovin, you love being skeptical, totally understand. And i don't blame if you don't recall Genes video or post and don't feel like searching for it at this hour. Just shoot Gene a message, im sure he will be happy to give you a quick answer.

I seem to remember that he didn't quite say that but I'll look again.

 

[Sachb]

I've been saying this time & again, Denon isn't good for music. I've had my X2300W for years but it never impressed me for its stereo performance.

The Denon is optimized for movies & surround, thats why you see Imax enhanced & other fancy gimmicks like auro 3D.

If bass is weak, you need to use L/R bypass, or manually turn up the bass with the multieq app editor.

Lfe + Main is another option to increase bass, but it'll sound muddy which is useless on Denons. Extra Bass on Yamaha works much better.

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