Denon or Onkyo or ???

[lovinthehd]

Good grief Sachin Bhatia you are fukking annoying.

 

[PENG]

Dang... my Marantz probably unqualified me. Lol.

Me too, my Denon(s) and Marantz(s) all have those infinity fans on top but there for added insurance only, none of them had shutdown before the fans were added. ADTG might have his Denon(s) placed in such ways that they didn't get the recommended natural cooling, but I am just guessing. Hopefully he will tell us more.

Just an aside, don't we all notice the Yamaha photos someone posted earlier revealed an obviously larger enclosure, more heat sink area, but sadly, made of stamped metal instead of Denon's seemingly smaller but much better real heat sinks? Denon's design is actually smarter, choosing fans over size and weight. They ran hotter than Yamaha's, likely due to higher bias current used for the sake of reduced crossover distortions, and the overall cost might be lower because of the reduced weight that should result in lower shipping costs, just one example..

If you compare the look of the transformers, Denon's are very well shielded with copper wraps to offset the one advantage that Toroidal transformers offer, i.e. lower magnetic flux leakage. The Yamaha's don't seem to have the same degree of shielding.

For real heat sinks, like Denon/Marantz's (higher models), one can look to the Yamaha MX-A5000:

This is not directed at you, and am not choosing side, just making some factual observations. Just a by the way kind of thing, instead of making a separate post, and since we both are D+M users.

 

[Sachb]

Me too, my Denon(s) and Marantz(s) all have those infinity fans on top but there for added insurance only, none of them had shutdown before the fans were added. ADTG might have his Denon(s) placed in such ways that they didn't get the recommended natural cooling, but I am just guessing. Hopefully he will tell us more.

Just an aside, don't we all notice the Yamaha photos someone posted earlier revealed an obviously larger enclosure, more heat sink area, but sadly, made of stamped metal instead of Denon's seemingly smaller but much better real heat sinks? Denon's design is actually smarter, choosing fans over size and weight. They ran hotter than Yamaha's, likely due to higher bias current used for the sake of reduced crossover distortions, and the overall cost might be lower because of the reduced weight that should result in lower shipping costs, just one example..

If you compare the look of the transformers, Denon's are very well shielded with copper wraps to offset the one advantage that Toroidal transformers offer, i.e. lower magnetic flux leakage. The Yamaha's don't seem to have the same degree of shielding.

For real heat sinks, like Denon/Marantz's (higher models), one can look to the Yamaha MX-A5000:

This is not directly to you, and am not choosing side, just making some factual observations. Just a by the way kind of thing, instead of making a separate post, and since we both are D+M users.

View attachment 41998

Someone over here reported temperature of about 85 F on a Denon X3700H, which is the temperature of the chassis itself. I'm wondering what would be the temperature internally?
What do you think?

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[Sachb]

Me too, my Denon(s) and Marantz(s) all have those infinity fans on top but there for added insurance only, none of them had shutdown before the fans were added. ADTG might have his Denon(s) placed in such ways that they didn't get the recommended natural cooling, but I am just guessing. Hopefully he will tell us more.

Just an aside, don't we all notice the Yamaha photos someone posted earlier revealed an obviously larger enclosure, more heat sink area, but sadly, made of stamped metal instead of Denon's seemingly smaller but much better real heat sinks? Denon's design is actually smarter, choosing fans over size and weight. They ran hotter than Yamaha's, likely due to higher bias current used for the sake of reduced crossover distortions, and the overall cost might be lower because of the reduced weight that should result in lower shipping costs, just one example..

If you compare the look of the transformers, Denon's are very well shielded with copper wraps to offset the one advantage that Toroidal transformers offer, i.e. lower magnetic flux leakage. The Yamaha's don't seem to have the same degree of shielding.

For real heat sinks, like Denon/Marantz's (higher models), one can look to the Yamaha MX-A5000:

This is not directly to you, and am not choosing side, just making some factual observations. Just a by the way kind of thing, instead of making a separate post, and since we both are D+M users.

View attachment 41998

Lower cost could also be cause its most probably made in Vietnam or China, as opposed to Yamaha which is made in Malaysia.

I don't have the box but it definately had "Made in Malaysia" printed on it.


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[Gmoney]

Someone over here reported temperature of about 85 F on a Denon X3700H, which is the temperature of the chassis itself. I'm wondering what would be the temperature internally?
What do you think?

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Probably around 212 Fahrenheit! What does water start boiling at? Only takes about 160 degrees of heat to cook eggs.

 

[Sachb]

Probably around 212 Fahrenheit! What does water start boiling at? Only takes about 160 degrees of heat to cook eggs.

Let's be real, lets say, 105F if the outer temps are 85 F. With a smaller enclosure like a denon, it would be nearly difficult to dessipate such temp, requiring one to put all that fancy fanc on it. Hehe

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[Gmoney]

Let's be real, lets say, 105F if the outer temps are 85 F. With a smaller enclosure like a denon, it would be nearly difficult to dessipate such temp, requiring one to put all that fancy fanc on it. Hehe

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lol

 

[PENG]

Someone over here reported temperature of about 85 F on a Denon X3700H, which is the temperature of the chassis itself. I'm wondering what would be the temperature internally?
What do you think?

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It depends on where you aim on enclosure and the internal parts. 85 F on the outside of the chassis is very good, the hottest spot inside could be as high as 130 to 140 F, assuming Eco off.

Regardless, that would be well within the safe zone for output devices and transformer windings/cores.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Let's be real, lets say, 105F if the outer temps are 85 F. With a smaller enclosure like a denon, it would be nearly difficult to dessipate such temp, requiring one to put all that fancy fanc on it. Hehe

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My Denon 4500 in an open air environment got so hot within 60 minutes of running that I could not touch the top without wanting to pull my hand away. I'll take the fans off sometime and measure exact temperatures. My guess is 120-130F in some spots on the top metal frame. The $20 dual fans make a BIG difference.

My Denon 4700 set in Preamp mode would reach 108F even while not using internal amps. The fans take it down to 82F. The Denon design could use a cooling engineer's perspective? Or maybe they don't think it's important?

Does Yamaha use Midrange Compensation automatically like Audyssey does on Denon Models? If not, that might contribute to a sonic difference? It's weird to hear Denon described as bright when by default Audyssey rolls off the high end. Hearing them side by side will be interesting.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Subjective opinions are of course biased. Plus I don't see your point in that thread....Archaea is the most experienced in that bunch, let alone the doofus touting Shunyata and other crap.

I also noticed that only ONE guy agreed with the OP, and even he said he didn’t use direct so why compare that way....lmao.

 

[eljr]

I am in need of a replacement for my Onkyo Sr606 12 yrs old. I was interested in the new Yamaha (especially the Costco clone) until I read about the HDMI board issues most likely requiring a physical replacement. I am considering Onkyo TX-NR696 and a Denon X2600H soon to be on sale at BestBuy. I know these are 2019 versions without 8K. What do you advise. These 2 along with the Yamaha V6A are similar price points (except for the rebadged TSR-700). I’m interested in what would be a good direction to go. Thanks a lot.

if they both have the features you want, choose the one whose looks are most appealing to you

 

[VMPS-TIII]

I never use direct mode with the Denon 4700 (Pure). It sounds weak in comparison to Audyssey Reference. Does anyone here use it as the main listening mode?

 

[Gmoney]

My Denon 4500 in an open air environment got so hot within 60 minutes of running that I could not touch the top without wanting to pull my hand away. I'll take the fans off sometime and measure exact temperatures. My guess is 120-130F in some spots on the top metal frame. The $20 dual fans make a BIG difference.

My Denon 4700 set in Preamp mode would reach 108F even while not using internal amps. The fans take it down to 82F. The Denon design could use a cooling engineer's perspective? Or maybe they don't think it's important?

Does Yamaha use Midrange Compensation automatically like Audyssey does on Denon Models? If not, that might contribute to a sonic difference? It's weird to hear Denon described as bright when by default Audyssey rolls off the high end. Hearing them side by side will be interesting.

Both of my Sons have Yamahas Aventage line a1080 and a1050. Well one day, We decided to see how hot a1050 and a1080 would get, Polk Lsi-15's and Impression Elite towers, 4 Ohm and 6 Ohm load. Two channel only, ran both at Reference levels with some heavy metal music CD's and yep got hot as hell. So yeah Yamaha AVR's may not run hot say Normal volumes whatever that means. But run them for 45 minutes or so Hot hot hot!

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Both of my Sons have Yamahas Advantage line a1080 and a1050. Well one day, We decided to see how hot a1050 and a1080 would get, Polk Lsi-15's and Impression Elite towers, 4 Ohm and 6 Ohm load. Two channel only, ran both at Reference levels with some heavy metal music CD's and yep git hot as hell. So yeah Yamaha AVR's may not run hot say Normal volumes whatever that means. But run them for 45 minutes or so Hot hot hot!

It may turn out that all receivers need fans. lol

 

[Gmoney]

It may turn out that all receivers need fans. lol

That's the thing, I'd say All AVR's will run hot and they do so yeah makes sense to keep audio gear cool.

 

[Sachb]

My 12+ year old reciever from Sony is also made in Malaysia, which easily sounds better than Denon X2300W.

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[William Lemmerhirt]

My Denon 4500 in an open air environment got so hot within 60 minutes of running that I could not touch the top without wanting to pull my hand away. I'll take the fans off sometime and measure exact temperatures. My guess is 120-130F in some spots on the top metal frame. The $20 dual fans make a BIG difference.

My Denon 4700 set in Preamp mode would reach 108F even while not using internal amps. The fans take it down to 82F. The Denon design could use a cooling engineer's perspective? Or maybe they don't think it's important?

Does Yamaha use Midrange Compensation automatically like Audyssey does on Denon Models? If not, that might contribute to a sonic difference? It's weird to hear Denon described as bright when by default Audyssey rolls off the high end. Hearing them side by side will be interesting.

I mentioned before that my older pioneer in the bedroom runs hotter than any other AVR I’ve experienced. It’s still working great. @PENG mentioned being within normal operating ranges. Heat doesn’t help, but I can’t believe that after 800 years of consumer electronics the engineering department ever thought about heat.
I don’t believe yamaha/ypao uses MRC. We seem to be circling around it, but I THINK sachb is trying to say his “comparisons” were in direct mode. In that case MRC would’ve relevant. I don’t really believe these comparisons were made level matched and in direct. Interested in your results.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

My 12+ year old reciever from Sony is also made in Malaysia, which easily sounds better than Denon X2300W.

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Ok. AV card revoked.....
3500watts lmao.....

 

[Sachb]

My Denon 4500 in an open air environment got so hot within 60 minutes of running that I could not touch the top without wanting to pull my hand away. I'll take the fans off sometime and measure exact temperatures. My guess is 120-130F in some spots on the top metal frame. The $20 dual fans make a BIG difference.

My Denon 4700 set in Preamp mode would reach 108F even while not using internal amps. The fans take it down to 82F. The Denon design could use a cooling engineer's perspective? Or maybe they don't think it's important?

Does Yamaha use Midrange Compensation automatically like Audyssey does on Denon Models? If not, that might contribute to a sonic difference? It's weird to hear Denon described as bright when by default Audyssey rolls off the high end. Hearing them side by side will be interesting.

No there is no MRC or so in Yamaha. Nothing of that poop at all.

They sound much fuller as compared to Denon.

I tried curve 2 of multieq app also played with MRC, nothing made much of a difference.

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[Sachb]

Ok. AV card revoked.....
3500watts lmao.....

It says 100×2 + 40×3 = 320 watts total of rms. These systems were monsters and would most probably destroy most entry level recievers for sound.

But quality would be ok, still sonically better than most.

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