Combining rear height speakers with Atmos enabled module speakers.

[Mohtechnix]

Hi Fellas,

I have looked through a few threads to see if this question has been asked answered in the past but I couldn’t find any pertinent answers.

So I am currently running a 5.2 system

Marantz SR7013 AVR
Monitor Audio - Silver 500s
Monitor Audio Gold GXC150 centre
Monitor Audio Radius 90 Surround
XTZ- 12 .17 Edge (dual )


My living room is rectangular in shape and approximately 4.5m x 6.5m and the ceiling is flat. I’d like to switch to Atmos (5.2.4) but the dilemma is I Iive in a rented flat so drilling the ceiling is not an option.

I have just purchased some KefR50s to use as upfiring speakers (height 1) placed on the floorstanding speakers , I intend to purchase some Cambridge audio minis to use as rear height.

Although Dolby recommends that one ought to place two additional upfiring speakers (height 2) on the Surround speakers. My rear surrounds are too small so I can’t place additional speakers on them.

My question is can I place the Cambridge audio minis on the wall somewhere above the sorrounds and use them as rear height speakers ? Or I shouldn’t just bother with them and save myself the trouble. Please let me know your thoughts as I am pretty new to all of these.

cheers

 

[mazersteven]

Better than asking us buy them, try them, see if they work for you if not return them

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well a couple things. First off, the ls50’s as I understand them, are excellent nearfield speakers. Not intended for high output, or having great extension(deeper bass), but known for uncanny imaging in a close setting. That’s an expensive pair of speakers to use as upfiring that could make a real nice 2.0 or 2.1 office setup.
Also, you can’t just use any regular speaker as an upfiring speaker. Actual AE(Atmos Enabled) speakers have a notch in the frequency response that helps trick the brain into thinking the sounds are coming from overhead. I would consider returning them for something else, or use them as a nice desktop pair.
For rear heights, it looks like the minis are smaller than the 90’s. So to my eye, they should fit. If not, you could lower the surrounds a tad, and install a couple of small shelves. A problem with the minis is the same as the ls50’s. They’re a regular old speaker.
In any case, setting up AE speakers is tricky. Getting the right angle so the sound bounces where you need it to will take some time.
So imo, it’s worth exploring Atmos, but some different speakers will be in order.
Edit: I thought I was looking at the “minis” but realized I was not. Can’t find them so maybe a link?
How was it you decided on the ls50’s and the minis? Very different speakers from each other.

 

[mazersteven]

Thought he said R50 not Ls50

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[William Lemmerhirt]

Thought he said R50 not Ls50

Accessories4less: High End Audio at Low End Prices!

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Holy shitt..... I’m fired!!!
Still the r50 is also a good speaker. But neither of the intended ones are made for upfiring.

 

[Mohtechnix]

Holy shitt..... I’m fired!!!
Still the r50 is also a good speaker. But neither of the intended ones are made for upfiring.

The R50 are upfiring speakers. I heard the unspoken rule of thumb is not to combine up firing with wall mounted height speakers.

 

[Mohtechnix]

Better than asking us buy them, try them, see if they work for you if not return them

It’s a lot of work in terms of wiring, trunking, and mounting the speakers so I’d rather check if someone here has tried it before.

After all that’s what we are here for - To share experiences and assist one another

 

[VMPS-TIII]

My setup is 7.2.4 with two smaller bookshelf speakers mounted at ceiling level firing down 30 degrees for the front heights and two VMPS 626 larger bookshelves mounted 7 foot above the floor on the rear wall as rear heights.

These are not special ATMOS approved speakers - just quality drivers with a wide frequency range. I cross them over at 80Hz and run Audyssey with the 11.2 amp assign mode. They work great for me. Auro-3D sounds wonderful from my seat.

Perhaps William has more experience with what's best for ATMOS speaker configurations? But I found as long as I have rear and front height speakers setup with Audyssey and the speakers match well, I'm happy.

Originally, I tried some smaller speakers that used a 120hz crossover on the rear height and they just didn't have the dynamics I was looking for. None of my speakers are mounted in the ceiling so I can easily move them or try something else if I feel the need.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well I guess I should stop multitasking...lol
I guess I haven’t really heard you shouldn’t mix AE and regular speakers. Just curious, where have you seen that? Any system will have its compromises. You just have to know what your giving up. If you absolutely can’t mount anything, I think I’d try and get another pair r50 and just use all of them on top of existing speakers. If you’re able to at least mount on the wall(imo it’s easy to fill holes and cover with paint) I agree with VMPS. Find a nice quality speaker and mount accordingly. The option I personally like best for an on wall situation is this. Those are SVS prime elevation speakers.

That’s because it usually keeps closer to the 45°, and closer to the Top position that I personally prefer. I find that heights on the front wall can get a little lost in competing with the mains and also smaller speakers which are typical of height speakers can have a harder time volume wise. In rooms where the length is shorter, or ceiling is higher, the front height angle usually stays closer to 45°. In 5.1.2 you want to keep the heights just a couple feet in front of the LP. It’s also my personal thought that top speakers can place objects on the XYZ planes due to being farther in the room and at different angles relative to the mains than front heights. Practically speaking either way can sound great so it’s important to use the room however you can. Available gear, and space combined with personal preference and experience vs expectation are all part of the equation. So it’s not really in size fits all.
For AE speakers it’s all about the angles. Imagine playing pool, and making a bank shot. The angle has to be right or else you over/under shoot and miss. It’s a little grayer for audio, but the idea is the same. Here’s a doodle I made to illustrate.(no critiques lol).

It’s crude, but the idea is to show how different distances and ceiling heights can affect aiming the AE speakers. A simple tilt up or down can really change where they land also. Wow, that got a little rambly. Sorry if it’s TLDR. Still waking up... coff......eeeeeeeeee.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

@VMPS-TIII
I don’t recall you mentioning ever a VOG speaker. Can you confirm Auro will phantom image one between all 4 heights? I THINK that’s the case but I can’t confirm. Auros slim selection of content has kept me from getting too excited about Auro in general. However auromatic and music playback seems generally awesome.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

@VMPS-TIII
I don’t recall you mentioning ever a VOG speaker. Can you confirm Auro will phantom image one between all 4 heights? I THINK that’s the case but I can’t confirm. Auros slim selection of content has kept me from getting too excited about Auro in general. However auromatic and music playback seems generally awesome.

@William Lemmerhirt - I don't have the tools to verify if front and rear heights can create a phantom image. But, I can tell you just using front and rear heights can create a very nice sound with Auro-3D. The other feature that's awesome is the total control of Auro-3D settings in the Denon 4700 receiver.

The Auro-3D decoder creates three-dimensional audio output using the Height Channel. While it's ideal for playback of signals encoded as Auro-3D with Height Channels, if the source is not encoded as Auro-3D are input, the Upmixer called the Auro-Matic is used to create highly realistic three-dimensional audio output.

Auro-Matic offers lots of options for converting stereo to Auro-3D. Try them all and pick your favorite.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

@William Lemmerhirt - I don't have the tools to verify if front and rear heights can create a phantom image. But, I can tell you just using front and rear heights can create a very nice sound with Auro-3D. The other feature that's awesome is the total control of Auro-3D settings in the Denon 4700 receiver.

The Auro-3D decoder creates three-dimensional audio output using the Height Channel. While it's ideal for playback of signals encoded as Auro-3D with Height Channels, if the source is not encoded as Auro-3D are input, the Upmixer called the Auro-Matic is used to create highly realistic three-dimensional audio output.

Auro-Matic offers lots of options for converting stereo to Auro-3D. Try them all and pick your favorite.

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I was just wondering if you had even done a rudimentary kinda thing. Like possibly turn off your amps and just listen to your heights with a known VOG signal maybe. Seems like auro-matic is really good. Too bad Auro is channel based. Even Atmos is to a point, but objects can be really cool.