Newbie Audyssey Question

[HTnewb]

I am a complete 70 yr old newbie when it comes to Audyssey. I have exhausted myself by reading through as many pages of this thread and others as i can, to help get some sort of grip on the subject. Many things i've read here, have helped greatly and i appreciate the info that has found it's home here. With that being said, i have a few things that i am just not grabbing well and hope for some clarification from you Guru's.

I have recently purchased a new Denon S750H with MultEQ (5.1 set-up). I came from a bit lower model, S540BT with basic calibration, so this is my first encounter with Audyssey. I have run MultEQ several times to ensure it was done correctly and with all the other settings to go along with it, the outcome does sound reasonable.

Here's the confusing part.................

With MultEQ enabled, say for music streaming, the sound i get does seem ok but when experimenting, if i turn EQ off, the fronts sound like crap and are barely neglible at the same master volume level. Rears are overpowering the listening position, maybe because i sit so close to the surrounds (no choice here.)
Why are my fronts so quiet?? Is this normal Audyssey function? I use Reference EQ, Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume.

My room is small and cramped (11x13) with overstuffed furniture and the layout of the room does not allow for few other choices for speaker placement other than what i have chosen. Audyssey set my levels at a much lower level than what i am accustom to. I have attached pics of the fronts and rears, that was taken a few months back just after installation, prior to making any toe-in adjustments.

Fronts are Klipsch R51m's, center is Klipsch 25C, rears are Klipsch B-200's, sub is Klipsch R-10SW. All speakers are set at 80hz, Small, and LPF 120hz (Audyssey set fronts at 60hz and center at 40hz) . Also includes Levels Audyssey has set. Any help, suggestions or confirmation that i'm not missing something, is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Leemix]

If i remember correctly audyssey dynamic EQ increase the volume quite a bit on the surrounds which can make them overpowering, lower the volume a bit on them and see if thats much better. I have surrounds a bit too close also and find lowering the volume on them helps a lot, i have audyssey turned off so dont even get the added boost from that and still needed to lower.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[PENG]

I am a complete 70 yr old newbie when it comes to Audyssey. I have exhausted myself by reading through as many pages of this thread and others as i can, to help get some sort of grip on the subject. Many things i've read here, have helped greatly and i appreciate the info that has found it's home here. With that being said, i have a few things that i am just not grabbing well and hope for some clarification from you Guru's.

I have recently purchased a new Denon S750H with MultEQ (5.1 set-up). I came from a bit lower model, S540BT with basic calibration, so this is my first encounter with Audyssey. I have run MultEQ several times to ensure it was done correctly and with all the other settings to go along with it, the outcome does sound reasonable.

Here's the confusing part.................

With MultEQ enabled, say for music streaming, the sound i get does seem ok but when experimenting, if i turn EQ off, the fronts sound like crap and are barely neglible at the same master volume level. Rears are overpowering the listening position, maybe because i sit so close to the surrounds (no choice here.)
Why are my fronts so quiet?? Is this normal Audyssey function? I use Reference EQ, Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume.

My room is small and cramped (11x13) with overstuffed furniture and the layout of the room does not allow for few other choices for speaker placement other than what i have chosen. Audyssey set my levels at a much lower level than what i am accustom to. I have attached pics of the fronts and rears, that was taken a few months back just after installation, prior to making any toe-in adjustments.

Fronts are Klipsch R51m's, center is Klipsch 25C, rears are Klipsch B-200's, sub is Klipsch R-10SW. All speakers are set at 80hz, Small, and LPF 120hz (Audyssey set fronts at 40hz and center at 60hz) . Also includes Levels Audyssey has set. Any help, suggestions or confirmation that i'm not missing something, is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

MultEQ set the levels low because your speakers have sensitivity specs on the high side, and in your 11X13' room you likely sit quite close to them, especially the surround speakers.

If you feel the surrounds are too loud when watching movies, try adjusting the DEQ offset to 5, 10 or even 15 dB, or don't use DEQ at all.

Dynamic volume is good if you want to hear the dialogue more easily at low volume, but I would suggest you use the "light" setting only so the effect won't be too aggressive.

If think Audyssey set you level too low, all you need to do is to turn the volume up, but don't mess with the settings unless you really know what you are doing.

What is your typical master volume settings when watching movies, and music?

 

[HTnewb]

MultEQ set the levels low because your speakers have sensitivity specs on the high side, and in your 11X13' room you likely sit quite close to them, especially the surround speakers.

If you feel the surrounds are too loud when watching movies, try adjusting the DEQ offset to 5, 10 or even 15 dB, or don't use DEQ at all.

Dynamic volume is good if you want to hear the dialogue more easily at low volume, but I would suggest you use the "light" setting only so the effect won't be too aggressive.

If think Audyssey set you level too low, all you need to do is to turn the volume up, but don't mess with the settings unless you really know what you are doing.

What is your typical master volume settings when watching movies, and music?

Good morning PENG and thanks for the reply. Typically, i use the 0-98 scale on master volume and i mostly listen to music at 40-45. Movies at 45-50 depending on time of day or night. My concern is whether AUD has incorrectly set the levels too low or i just don't understand the technology well. Could be that i'm now hearing things i didn't hear correctly before, IDK

 

[HTnewb]

If i remember correctly audyssey dynamic EQ increase the volume quite a bit on the surrounds which can make them overpowering, lower the volume a bit on them and see if thats much better. I have surrounds a bit too close also and find lowering the volume on them helps a lot, i have audyssey turned off so dont even get the added boost from that and still needed to lower.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks @Leemix

 

[connta]

If I could hijack the thread with a similar audissey question, when i run the automatic setup the fronts and surrounds distance is detected basically 1:1 with a tape measure, both fronts at 4m and both surrounds at 1.8m which is spot on but the center is consistently detected as being way closer than it is. Factually (tape measure) it is 3.8m away and audissey is placing it at 1.6m consistently (like ran it 5 times).

I dont really hear a difference either way, i mean while testing i can sense the delay that "distance" setting is introducing but if i play content with center set at 1.6m or 3.8m i really cant hear anything wrong with either setting. The question is, should i actually follow audissey since it should be calculating bounces and whatnot or just force the tape measure value?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

If I could hijack the thread with a similar audissey question, when i run the automatic setup the fronts and surrounds distance is detected basically 1:1 with a tape measure, both fronts at 4m and both surrounds at 1.8m which is spot on but the center is consistently detected as being way closer than it is. Factually (tape measure) it is 3.8m away and audissey is placing it at 1.6m consistently (like ran it 5 times).

I dont really hear a difference either way, i mean while testing i can sense the delay that "distance" setting is introducing but if i play content with center set at 1.6m or 3.8m i really cant hear anything wrong with either setting. The question is, should i actually follow audissey since it should be calculating bounces and whatnot or just force the tape measure value?

For distances I think the common thought is to trust Audyssey. It doesn’t “see” the room the way do. It sees it acoustically. So any differences between audyssey and the tape are academic only.

 

[lovinthehd]

If I could hijack the thread with a similar audissey question, when i run the automatic setup the fronts and surrounds distance is detected basically 1:1 with a tape measure, both fronts at 4m and both surrounds at 1.8m which is spot on but the center is consistently detected as being way closer than it is. Factually (tape measure) it is 3.8m away and audissey is placing it at 1.6m consistently (like ran it 5 times).

I dont really hear a difference either way, i mean while testing i can sense the delay that "distance" setting is introducing but if i play content with center set at 1.6m or 3.8m i really cant hear anything wrong with either setting. The question is, should i actually follow audissey since it should be calculating bounces and whatnot or just force the tape measure value?

Usually it would be the sub that would have the biggest difference (due additional processing time in the sub amp)....haven't heard of large differences with center particularly....what sort of center is it and how is it positioned? If you don't have any audible issues with either delay setting, tho....

 

[Teetertotter?]

I have a small room and I settled positioning the Mic a couple feet in front of my head/closer to the center speaker, and have everything turned off......in my case. You just have to experiment for what's the best listening for you.

I watch Netflix and TV programing. Sometimes internet radio and I change the sound setting via the "Music" button on the Denon remote.

 

[TechToys2]

I have a Marantz 6014 and I am having similar issues to you. I have been watching Youtube videos and fiddling for days. I am finally starting to get some sense of what things are doing to the sound, but it is taking some time for me to figure out what I like and what I don't. I am replacing an old 5.1 receiver that had far fewer settings and options to deal with. My room is also very small (9x11) but open on one side.

I'm finding there is more than one way to reach similar results. Turn down the surrounds a little, turn up the center a little, try dynamic EQ with an offset, etc. Last night I watched a documentary-type show on Netflix with a good bit of surround and music and was having trouble hearing the dialog. I didn't like what dynamic volume did, but I got a good result turning on dynamic EQ with a -10db reference offset and raising the center channel by 1.5db. Other things I find dynamic volume works great on light.

At first I was a little concerned about playing with things figuring Audyssey knows better than me, but then I realized the worst that happens is I do a reset and start from scratch . It's clearly going to be an experimentation game and it can be a little frustrating because things vary by how the content was mixed. But eventually I know I'll settle on what I prefer and just leave it alone and enjoy.

This weekend I plan to buy the Audyssey app (which I should have done from the beginning) and rerun everything.

 

[PENG]

Good morning PENG and thanks for the reply. Typically, i use the 0-98 scale on master volume and i mostly listen to music at 40-45. Movies at 45-50 depending on time of day or night. My concern is whether AUD has incorrectly set the levels too low or i just don't understand the technology well. Could be that i'm now hearing things i didn't hear correctly before, IDK

Since your volume is quite low, if it isn't loud enough for you just turn it up to you liking. As long as you don't go above 70 you are in great shape.

 

[connta]

Usually it would be the sub that would have the biggest difference (due additional processing time in the sub amp)....haven't heard of large differences with center particularly....what sort of center is it and how is it positioned? If you don't have any audible issues with either delay setting, tho....

It is an Onkyo TX-NR646 with Jamo 506 HCS 3 5.0 system (no sub).

What kinda bugs me the most is that the center is actually detected as much CLOSER than it really is, i dont understand how anything can make a channel appear closer, further i would get but closer i do not... especially that all other speakers are detected spot on in the same room and all the speakers in the system are equally placed (as you can deduce from the position measurements). The center is on top of a wooden AV rack angled upwards slightly, 4 degrees, so that the imginary line from the tweeter hits the prime listening position exactly (when i sit there and place the laser on the center it hits me basically on the nose). The measurement mic is setup to emulate the same position as my head when i sit there. Could it be that the positioning is that "perfect" that some waveguide technology from the center tweeter focuses in such a way that the speaker appears closer? I dont know much about acoustics so just a shot in the dark.

 

[lovinthehd]

Simple answer is your room/speaker acoustics are being read by mic/Audyssey/avr that way....

No sub!?

 

[HTnewb]

Since your volume is quite low, if it isn't loud enough for you just turn it up to you liking. As long as you don't go above 70 you are in great shape.

PENG, it's not that the volume is too low with MultEQ on, it's the speaker levels that are virtually non existant when MultEQ is off, hence the levels audyssey set are very low to me.

 

[HTnewb]

I have a Marantz 6014 and I am having similar issues to you. I have been watching Youtube videos and fiddling for days. I am finally starting to get some sense of what things are doing to the sound, but it is taking some time for me to figure out what I like and what I don't. I am replacing an old 5.1 receiver that had far fewer settings and options to deal with. My room is also very small (9x11) but open on one side.

I'm finding there is more than one way to reach similar results. Turn down the surrounds a little, turn up the center a little, try dynamic EQ with an offset, etc. Last night I watched a documentary-type show on Netflix with a good bit of surround and music and was having trouble hearing the dialog. I didn't like what dynamic volume did, but I got a good result turning on dynamic EQ with a -10db reference offset and raising the center channel by 1.5db. Other things I find dynamic volume works great on light.

At first I was a little concerned about playing with things figuring Audyssey knows better than me, but then I realized the worst that happens is I do a reset and start from scratch . It's clearly going to be an experimentation game and it can be a little frustrating because things vary by how the content was mixed. But eventually I know I'll settle on what I prefer and just leave it alone and enjoy.

This weekend I plan to buy the Audyssey app (which I should have done from the beginning) and rerun everything.

Thanks @TechToys2 My thoughts exactly.

 

[lovinthehd]

PENG, it's not that the volume is too low with MultEQ on, it's the speaker levels that are virtually non existant when MultEQ is off, hence the levels audyssey set are very low to me.

Why would it sound the same with the Dynamic EQ/loudness contour off? It doesn't have anything to do with the trim levels per speaker/channel.....

 

[HTnewb]

Why would it sound the same with the Dynamic EQ/loudness contour off? It doesn't have anything to do with the trim levels per speaker/channel.....

Yep, i gotta put all these related pieces in my mind. I just wasn't expecting levels as low as audyssey set them. I'll get it eventually.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yep, i gotta put all these related pieces in my mind. I just wasn't expecting levels as low as audyssey set them. I'll get it eventually.

You more need to understand the meaning of some....you're making trim level out to be something it isn't.

 

[HTnewb]

You more need to understand the meaning of some....you're making trim level out to be something it isn't.

That's the whole point in asking questions..........to learn.

 

[lovinthehd]

That's the whole point in asking questions..........to learn.

Absolutely....or at least explain why you have certain assumptions to start with so we can steer you in the appropriate direction(s).