VTF-3 MK5 HP or PB-2000 Pro

[Golfer474]

Yes, it's another one of these threads, but I'd like to poll this community on which sub I should get for my HT setup. I'm on a fairly tight budget and I've narrowed down to these two (I think). Below is a rough sketch of my basement so you can get a feel for the dimensions and space I'm working with. I inherited SpeakerCraft AIM3 LCRs for the front left, right and center channels, and I've got a Denon AVR-X1600H for the receiver.

What does everyone think between these sub options?

• VTF-3 MK5 HP
• PB-2000 Pro

Or, is there another option? I considered dual SB-1000s, but I don't think that will be enough for the space. I also considered a single SB-3000 but am concerned I'll be missing a lot of deep bass extension. What about dual PB-1000s?

I plan to spend 80% of the time watching movies/tv and 20% listening to music.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP would be my first choice. The only thing better would be two.

 

[mazersteven]

The SVS will match better with the Speakercrafts. I know this because I have Aim8 Fives

IMO the $100 difference you get SVS's legendary customer service is worth it.

 

[shadyJ]

The SVS will match better with the Speakercrafts. I know this because I have Aim8 Fives

IMO the $100 difference you get SVS's legendary customer service is worth it.

Lol, those subs are a better match with those speakers huh?

 

[Kleinst]

Yeah I’d go 15 inches to start and finish vs a 12. But I’ve never had a HSU but there aren’t many horror stories on here about them

 

[mazersteven]

Yeah I’d go 15 inches to start and finish vs a 12.

But I’ve never had a HSU but there aren’t many horror stories on here about them

Its not All about the driver size. IMO the cabinet design, internal bracing, amp and driver quality make the difference

 

[Kleinst]

Its not All about the driver size. IMO the cabinet design, internal bracing, amp and driver quality make the difference

Can't go wrong with an SVS, that's true

 

[TankTop5]

High jacking this thread... I have a single PB1000, how would dual VTF-3 MK5 compare? I know its a huge difference but $1,600 would it be 2nd only to top tier of any major subwoofer manufacturers?

 

[mazersteven]

I have a single PB1000, how would dual VTF-3 MK5 compare? I know its a huge difference but $1,600 would it be 2nd only to top tier of any major subwoofer manufacturers?

I don't quite understand your top-tier statement but dual vtf-3 MK5 compared to a single pb-1000 night and day difference with headroom and extension.
It would be like a Lightning Bolt Strike from 3 miles away vs. 1/4 mile away

 

[TankTop5]

I don't quite understand your top-tier statement but dual vtf-3 MK5 compared to a single pb-1000 night and day difference with headroom and extension.
It would be like a Lightning Bolt Strike from 3 miles away vs. 1/4 mile away

I just created another post about DIY subwoofers with a link to a GR research video about “fast” subwoofers. It’s really a discussion of fidelity, my S40’s just sound better than my PB1000, the SVS is loud but it just doesn’t sound good doing it, at least not matched with the Dyn’s. It’s bothered me for a long time, I don’t know exactly what it is but my ears don’t lie.

 

[mazersteven]

The PB1000 is a nice sub for what it is. And room dimensions/placement have a lot to do with performance. There is only so much a small enclosure and 10" driver can do
But I would hope that the Special 40's would outshine that little Sub

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

High jacking this thread... I have a single PB1000, how would dual VTF-3 MK5 compare? I know its a huge difference but $1,600 would it be 2nd only to top tier of any major subwoofer manufacturers?

They wouldn’t compare much at all. “A huge difference” is an understatement.
The pb1000 is a great entry level sub. But it’s trade off of linearity for output makes it an entry level sub. If you have the means for dual MK5’s there’s nothing that would make you want the pb1k back. EVER....

 

[mazersteven]

If you have the means for dual MK5’s there’s nothing that would make you want the pb1k back. EVER....

Or dual PB-2000 Pro's

 

[shadyJ]

I just created another post about DIY subwoofers with a link to a GR research video about “fast” subwoofers. It’s really a discussion of fidelity, my S40’s just sound better than my PB1000, the SVS is loud but it just doesn’t sound good doing it, at least not matched with the Dyn’s. It’s bothered me for a long time, I don’t know exactly what it is but my ears don’t lie.

I don't know what your S40 is, but one possible reason for your impression is that the SVS DSP has a delay that you haven't compensated for. It can be as much as 20ms. You need to calibrate the sub accordingly. Another reason is that some subs with deeper extension sound slower. Deep bass by nature is slower to develop than higher frequencies. It could also be loading the lower frequencies of your room which can exaggerate the deep bass. Don't blame the SVS unless you have taken measurements.

 

[TankTop5]

Or dual PB-2000 Pro's

How would they compare from a sound quality perspective, not just output?

 

[TankTop5]

I don't know what your S40 is, but one possible reason for your impression is that the SVS DSP has a delay that you haven't compensated for. It can be as much as 20ms. You need to calibrate the sub accordingly. Another reason is that some subs with deeper extension sound slower. Deep bass by nature is slower to develop than higher frequencies. It could also be loading the lower frequencies of your room which can exaggerate the deep bass. Don't blame the SVS unless you have taken measurements.

From the GR research video, fast speakers are called tweeters. A fast sounding subwoofer returns to rest faster, it has more moving mass and is slower moving. They go on to talk about servo subs and how they correct for that, I’m also aware 1/4 wave TL subs do well in this regard but I believe a well designed ported speaker can as well. I’m not sure measurements capture this although a poorly placed subwoofer would exacerbate it. I’m not discounting what you’re saying, I’m saying I don’t understand what you’re saying.

REL guys talk about signal hitting your subs and speakers at the same time, are you saying my SVS may have a timing issue? Would that be affected by changing distance? Is the a measurement I can get with a Umik-1 and REW that would help me discover the problem?

 

[shadyJ]

From the GR research video, fast speakers are called tweeters. A fast sounding subwoofer returns to rest faster, it has more moving mass and is slower moving. They go on to talk about servo subs and how they correct for that, I’m also aware 1/4 wave TL subs do well in this regard but I believe a well designed ported speaker can as well. I’m not sure measurements capture this although a poorly placed subwoofer would exacerbate it. I’m not discounting what you’re saying, I’m saying I don’t understand what you’re saying.

REL guys talk about signal hitting your subs and speakers at the same time, are you saying my SVS may have a timing issue? Would that be affected by changing distance? Is the a measurement I can get with a Umik-1 and REW that would help me discover the problem?

The measurements from REL subs I have seen in the past have had a delerious amount of harmonic distortion. One thing you can do to give a deep bass sound more "detail" is to jack up 2nd order harmonic distortion. This can make it seem like it is reproducing more sound, so long as you weren't familiar with the original recording. This is called euphonic distortion. It is the same reason why some people are drawn to tube amps and record players; they like the sound of certain kinds of distortion. Those were older REL subs though, and I would expect some modern models to be better. Hopefulyl.

Yes, measurements can capture delayed energy, the measurement is of group delay.

Yes, your SVS could have a timing issue. The way to compensate for it is to set a delay on the main speakers. Many auto EQ systems do this. This is a measurement you can get with a UMIK-1 and REW. The best way to see it is in the spectrogram or GD measurements. If there is a rise across the sub spectrum versus the main speakers in an overall response, the signal is probably arriving at the subs a bit later than the rest of the system.

 

[ryanosaur]

GR research video

I've watched many... and I still do from time to time....
But he has his, like oh so many others out there have and are entitled to their, own opinions.
It doesn't make him any more right than anybody else.

I’m not sure measurements capture this

A microphone doesn't lie. It's a measurement tool... like a tape measure, a level, a laser... properly calibrated it is an accurate scientific tool which you can use! And these tools will measure these acoustic phenomena in a way you can interpret and manipulate to your advantage!

 

[Golfer474]

Thanks for the inputs. I ordered the VTF-3 MK5 HP