Monolith by Monoprice out of stock, what are my options

[EscapeV3locity]

The most important elements for an amazing sounding set up are the quality of the media contents and the loudspeakers, and subwoofers of course. Power amps are relatively simple, matured device, there isn't much magic in those, and it does not take much, or cost much to get pass the point of diminishing return. So I would just focus on getting one that is reliable based on track record, have great specs and most important, has more than the power output capability for your need.

I'm confused by this paragraph.

Why would you even recommend Denon over Marantz if the returns diminish so quickly? Why recommend ATI amp over say the Outlaw 5000x or 7000x?

In message above you mentioned to grab the 7000x now and possibly wait for the monolith 7x or 5x, is it really that much audible difference to wait for the monolith or does the sound quality diminish and its not worth the price or wait?

From you paragraph it sounds like in this price point the options are many and the return I'm getting by choosing Monolith 7x or Outlaw 7000x or Denon vs. Marantz is like less then 1% and if that is true any decision I make must be the right one ?

 

[lovinthehd]

More about the power the various amps offer than a sound quality thing.....partially origin/build quality....IMO

 

[PENG]

I'm confused by this paragraph.

Why would you even recommend Denon over Marantz if the returns diminish so quickly? Why recommend ATI amp over say the Outlaw 5000x or 7000x?

Denon over Marantz because of the savings. You would pay less and get more (in terms of measured performance). I mentioned ATI only as an option because I don't know your power requirement. If you need more power, the Outlaw 7000 may not be enough for your mains, but will most likely be more than enough for the surround and Atmos speakers. That's why later on I suggested you figure out your power need first. It is better to buy a power amp based on your need unless cost is not a factor.

In message above you mentioned to grab the 7000x now and possibly wait for the monolith 7x or 5x, is it really that much audible difference to wait for the monolith or does the sound quality diminish and its not worth the price or wait?

No wonder you are confused, I did not say wait for the Monolith, I did not even recommend them. You probably got me mixed up with someone else.

From you paragraph it sounds like in this price point the options are many and the return I'm getting by choosing Monolith 7x or Outlaw 7000x or Denon vs. Marantz is like less then 1% and if that is true any decision I make must be the right one ?

Not at all, again, you might have me mixed up with someone else. In "my paragraph" you quoted, I said "So I would just focus on getting one that is reliable based on track record, have great specs and most important, has more than the power output capability for your need."

Everyone don't have the same power need. It depends a lot of the speaker specs, so yes you have that, but it also depends a lot of your seating distance and your desired spl that we don't know about.

Some people likes to listen at reference level, 85 dB plus 20 dB peak (THX standard), while many others, like me, rarely go pass 75 dB.

3 dB more spl required 2X the power, and 10 dB more spl requires 10X more power. So you can have two people having the same set up, one may only need 30 W to cover the 95 dB peak spl required, while the other may need 300 W to cover his/her 105 dB peak requirement. The one who need 50 W would be happy with an Outlaw 5000, the other would need one of those ATI amp I mentioned.

The calculator I linked will give you a good idea, if you entered the right information.[/QUOTE]

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you're asking if the Emotiva 11Ch amp will sound as good as the Monolith or ATI or other amps, the answer is YES.

I would send them an EMAIL and ask about their POLICY on out of warranty repair service. That way you will have something in writing just in case.

See how responsive they are. Then give EMO a call. And ask them again on their policy for out of warranty repair service.

Then if you like what you see and hear, I see no reason not to buy an Emotiva amp. Their amps will sound as good as other amps.

Perhaps there are many of us who might not buy Emotiva, but that doesn't mean you won't like Emotiva.

You have an awesome JVC NX5 projector. The Pre-pro should sound great. The speakers should sound great. And since you can't get the Monolith 11Ch am, the Emotiva 11Ch is an alternative that should sound just as good.

 

[EscapeV3locity]

Thanks for all the help so far.

Here is a screenshot of some very conservative numbers I put in the SPL applet:

As you can see those are not the volumes I can tolerate or intend to listen at.

Having said that can I get advice which would you recommend from below 3 and why?

1. Outlaw setup ($2700 USD)
- 3 x Outlaw 2220 for LCR
- Outlaw 5000x for surrounds
- Outlaw 5000x for heights

2. Outlaw and Monolith combo ($2710 USD)
- Outlaw 7000x for heights (will be initially used for a few months for LCR and surrounds)
- Monolith 7x for main and surrounds

3. Marantz ($3500 USD)
- Marantz MM8077 for the floor speakers
- Marantz MM7055 for the height speakers

Also, see this review of AVR vs. pre/pro, (skip to 8:10

) its obvious in real world test the pre/pro is winning. Specs. are not everything, you can tell me how an Android phone has very high end specs. but that doesn't doesn't translate into a superior user experience. I deal with engineers all day long and business folks and always have to ask my engineers why what they think is an issue or a feature that is important translate into superior end user experience for the consumer. An apple phone with lesser spec. HW could provide a more superior experience vs. an Android phone. Likewise these days you can now make the same argument for an Android phone vs. Apple with higher spec. HW.

It's not about how big your stick is, but how well you use your stick and get the most use of it. This may mean the stick could also go unused if I never crank it that high .

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Having said that can I get advice which would you recommend from below 2 and why?
1. Outlaw setup ($2700 USD)
- 3 x Outlaw 2220 for LCR
- Outlaw 5000x for surrounds
- Outlaw 5000x for heights

2. Outlaw and Monolith combo ($2710 USD)
- Outlaw 7000x for heights (will be initially used for a few months for LCR and surrounds)
- Monolith 7x for main and surrounds

If you want to spent $2700 on amps then I would go with option 2 above. But, PENG has a point. You could sell your separate Preamp and get a Denon 3700 or 4700 for a fraction of the cost and have better performance. The same applies to the Yamaha Aventage RX-A3080.

The amps in the Denon and the Yamaha receivers mentioned above are cleaner than many external amps on the market. Go read the Outlaw 7000x manual and see how much time they spend on speaker hum. That's not an accident. You won't have speaker hum with these receivers. You may have hum with one of these lower cost amps.

I setup my Denon 4700 this week with a 7.2.4 configuration and the Fronts (Sierra Towers) on an external amp. On the 4700 this disconnects the front channel. Supposedly, that should provide better specs. However, I was unable to tell any sound quality difference with the fronts connected to an ADCOM GFA-7000 amp OR the Denon 4700 internal amp. However, when the Sierra Towers were connected to the Adcom there was a slight hum in the speaker if you put your ear to it while the sound was off. Could not hear it 2 feet away but it's there. When I connected the Sierra Tower to the Denon 4700 there is absolutely no hum.

It's really hard to get the same sound quality these receivers provide without spending 3-4x as much on external amps. It's not as hard if you are just looking for a high quality stereo amp but when you start buying 5-7 channel amps and want them for less than $1200 there are going to be trade offs.

Bottom line... don think getting a preamp and external amps will always lead to better sound quality than a high quality receiver. It won't. That lesson is worth a few thousand by itself.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for all the help so far.

Here is a screenshot of some very conservative numbers I put in the SPL applet:

View attachment 40494

As you can see those are not the volumes I can tolerate or intend to listen at.

Having said that can I get advice which would you recommend from below 3 and why?

1. Outlaw setup ($2700 USD)
- 3 x Outlaw 2220 for LCR
- Outlaw 5000x for surrounds
- Outlaw 5000x for heights

2. Outlaw and Monolith combo ($2710 USD)
- Outlaw 7000x for heights (will be initially used for a few months for LCR and surrounds)
- Monolith 7x for main and surrounds

3. Marantz ($3500 USD)
- Marantz MM8077 for the floor speakers
- Marantz MM7055 for the height speakers

Also, see this review of AVR vs. pre/pro, (skip to 8:10

) its obvious in real world test the pre/pro is winning. Specs. are not everything, you can tell me how an Android phone has very high end specs. but that doesn't doesn't translate into a superior user experience. I deal with engineers all day long and business folks and always have to ask my engineers why what they think is an issue or a feature that is important translate into superior end user experience for the consumer. An apple phone with lesser spec. HW could provide a more superior experience vs. an Android phone. Likewise these days you can now make the same argument for an Android phone vs. Apple with higher spec. HW.

It's not about how big your stick is, but how well you use your stick and get the most use of it. This may mean the stick could also go unused if I never crank it that high .

Youthman is funny. He hears crosstalk spec. Sure he does. He the same one who "tells" you stuff you've mentioned before?

 

[EscapeV3locity]

You could sell your separate Preamp and get a Denon 3700 or 4700 for a fraction of the cost and have better performance.

Denon 3700 or the 4700 are a 9 channel amplifier AVR, this was my first choice for a receiver 2 months ago. I will still need an external amp. to power all my speakers which is what I had planned to do. Now you can see how the devil lead me to where I am, he made me open the amplifier door that lead me down this path .

The amps in the Denon and the Yamaha receivers mentioned above are cleaner than many external amps on the market. Go read the Outlaw 7000x manual and see how much time they spend on speaker hum.

Many amplifiers that make use of Torodial transformers have a hum, if you put your head close to the device. This is why Emotiva have a very low floor when it comes this type of noise as they use a Class H design.

However, when the Sierra Towers were connected to the Adcom there was a slight hum in the speaker if you put your ear to it while the sound was off. Could not hear it 2 feet away but it's there. When I connected the Sierra Tower to the Denon 4700 there is absolutely no hum.

Your not hearing a hum, but rather a hiss from the speakers. If you look at the back of the Denon it only has RCA pre-outs. RCA cable design is susceptible to pickup noise, especially if the receiver components are not shielded well. You now have a weakness in your chain which is unavoidable for an 11 channel setup. This hiss would likely be eliminated or removed if Denon had balanced XLR output and the XLR cables you used were well shielded.

So if my goal was for a 9 channel setup then these Denons are top notch but you see the weakness that is exposed when you go to 11 channel? This means you cannot fix it unless you essentially sell that Denon and get a 11 channel AVR that can actually power 11 channels.

FYI, I haven't bought the Marantz AV7705 yet, but so far I still don't see convicting evidence to sway me towards a better option here.

I really wish this site had more data so I can see if the models I'm interested in actually had a bigger stick: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Audio_DAC_Performance_Index/

 

[EscapeV3locity]

Youthman is funny. He hears crosstalk spec. Sure he does. He the same one who "tells" you stuff you've mentioned before?

Of course he "tells" me this stuff, just like you guys are telling me "stuff".

 

[PENG]

Thanks for all the help so far.

Here is a screenshot of some very conservative numbers I put in the SPL applet:

View attachment 40494

As you can see those are not the volumes I can tolerate or intend to listen at.

Having said that can I get advice which would you recommend from below 3 and why?

1. Outlaw setup ($2700 USD)
- 3 x Outlaw 2220 for LCR
- Outlaw 5000x for surrounds
- Outlaw 5000x for heights

2. Outlaw and Monolith combo ($2710 USD)
- Outlaw 7000x for heights (will be initially used for a few months for LCR and surrounds)
- Monolith 7x for main and surrounds

3. Marantz ($3500 USD)
- Marantz MM8077 for the floor speakers
- Marantz MM7055 for the height speakers

Also, see this review of AVR vs. pre/pro, (skip to 8:10

) its obvious in real world test the pre/pro is winning. Specs. are not everything, you can tell me how an Android phone has very high end specs. but that doesn't doesn't translate into a superior user experience. I deal with engineers all day long and business folks and always have to ask my engineers why what they think is an issue or a feature that is important translate into superior end user experience for the consumer. An apple phone with lesser spec. HW could provide a more superior experience vs. an Android phone. Likewise these days you can now make the same argument for an Android phone vs. Apple with higher spec. HW.

It's not about how big your stick is, but how well you use your stick and get the most use of it. This may mean the stick could also go unused if I never crank it that high .

All options end up idling at least one amplifier channel. So just pick the one that costs less I guess.
Pre/pro is winning in real world test, but that's subjective tests.

That gentleman in the video talking about something magic..., afaic, its more like he's imagining things because he's told those things, such as, expectation, Placebo, hearsay effects, all added up for him. To me, real world tests are those with bench measurements, for science/engineering based products, there are real cause and effects that are measurable. If measurements show the prepro did worse in all the important tests than an AVR, then it doesn't matter what subjective reviewers say, think or believe, especially when they know what they are listening to, that is, not done in DBT. If you are interested, you may want to view Dr. Toole's video on how to do comparison listening tests.

I do believe the Marantz AVPs, especially the AV8805 (I still have my AV8801, and a few other Marantz products) are good solid pieces, just not good values, but what that gentleman said in the video, imo, is good for entertainment only.

By the way, what the calculator shows will not be as loud as you may think, because

1) Most movies don't push all 11 speakers to the same level all the time.
2) Your speakers are not 8 ohm nominal (the calculator is based on 8 ohm), Paradigm claimed 8 Ohm compatible, to me they are more like 5 to 6 ohm nominal. Good thing is, they have benign phase angles and sensitivity is good, so still relatively easy to drive by an AVR, just won't be as loud as what the calculator show you.

I would say in real world use, you may get quite close to reference level, that is, 85/105 +/- 2 dB SPL, still very loud for most people. I listen to 75/95 dB at the most.

So here you go again, let me say it for the last time, in your application you could have saved money going with a AVR-X4500H (about the same vintage as the AV7705) and get better results by acquiring a good ATI, or Anthem 3 channel power amp for the LCR, and let the AVR drive the surround and Atmos speakers.

If it was me, since we are in 2020 now, I would trade the AV7705 (if you can't sell it for a good price) in for an AVR-X4700H (ignore the sales rep as he may think you are crazy..).

Lastly, I highly recommend you read some of those ASR reviews such as this one:
ASR review AVR-X4700H

Sorry if came across as not sensitive to the obvious fact that you already bought the 7705 and believe in what those subjective review said. I just can't help to think that it is not too late to start paying attention to the objective findings, and reap the benefits of some of the features offered in the 2020 models at the same time. Like others, adtg, hd etc., I can say, been there done that..

 

[txbonds]

If you didn’t buy 7705 yet, then here, problem solved.

Accessories4less: High End Audio at Low End Prices!

www.accessories4less.com

Or this and a 2 channel amp and use xlr cables. Mono price 2 channel was in stock I think. Also twin outlaw monos.

FS: YAMAHA RX-A3080 Brand New

I have an extra Flagship Yamaha RX-A3080 brand new in the box for sale for $1575 shipped. The RX-A3080 is in high demand and short supply. It has both Main XLR Inputs and XLR Outputs. Send me a PM if you are interested.

forums.audioholics.com

 

[EscapeV3locity]

Why not Anthem AVM 60 11.2CH Preamp/Processor

AVM60 would be far superior than mostly anything we have discussed for a pre/pro or even AVR mentioned in this discussion.

 

[PENG]

Why not Anthem AVM 60 11.2CH Preamp/Processor

AVM60 would be far superior than mostly anything we have discussed for a pre/pro or even AVR mentioned in this discussion.

Superior, may be, not sure about far superior, especially if cost is factored in, and that 2020 models are already out. I couldn't care less about the 2018/19 features, but the 2020's include HDMI version update, that could be significant for some people.

People expected a lot from the $6,000 JBL, only to be disappointed when they saw the bench test results. The Anthem costs much less but that's good you are sure you don't need more than 11 channel processing, HDMI2.1/8K etc. for future proofing. IMO, it is again, too late in the cycle to buy into something on the way out for a lot of money. The reason I switched to AVR after two prepro is to avoid paying a lot more on something that seem to get outdated quickly. When I paid over $3K for my AV8801 I thought it was a good deal and told myself I won't, or never need any more feature that it already offer. Yet, after resisting Atmos for a year or two, I finally had to give in, and was "forced to" upgrade when the 8801 is still in brand new condition, now a 30+ lbs paper weight.

JBL SDP-55 Audio/Video Processor Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the audio performance of the JBL SDP-55 AVP home theater processor. It was kindly purchased by a member and drop shipped to me for testing first. It arrived about two months ago. The SDP-55 costs US $6000. Note: our company Madrona Digital is a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[txbonds]

Why not Anthem AVM 60 11.2CH Preamp/Processor

AVM60 would be far superior than mostly anything we have discussed for a pre/pro or even AVR mentioned in this discussion.

Uh, because you asked for options since 11 channel mono price not available. People are giving you options. I’m sure the Anthem would be fine as would the 1000’s of other possible options. All it takes is money.

The Yammy combo stayed in budget near the cost of an 7705 and mono price amp also.

 

[PENG]

Uh, because you asked for options since 11 channel mono price not available. People are giving you options. I’m sure the Anthem would be fine as would the 1000’s of other possible options. All it takes is money.

The Yammy combo stayed in budget near the cost of an 7705 and mono price amp also.

I don't think he asked for AVP options, I might have been the first one offered the AVP option without being asked, so I guess it is my fault..

The CX-A5100 seems to be a good option if no more than 11 channel is needed, but then again it is an outgoing model, even the CX-A5200 is. It may be better to wait and see what's coming soon.

 

[txbonds]

I don't think he asked for AVP options, I might have been the first one offered the AVP option without being asked, so I guess it is my fault..

The CX-A5100 seems to be a good option if no more than 11 channel is needed, but then again it is an outgoing model, even the CX-A5200 is. It may be better to wait and see what's coming soon.

I know but he was looking for 11 channel amp options and said he hadn’t bought the 7705 yet. The CX/RX5200 pair is just a good alternative for the $3,499 price. That said there are lots of options. Just takes money.

 

[snakeeyes]

I don't think he asked for AVP options, I might have been the first one offered the AVP option without being asked, so I guess it is my fault..

The CX-A5100 seems to be a good option if no more than 11 channel is needed, but then again it is an outgoing model, even the CX-A5200 is. It may be better to wait and see what's coming soon.

Think Yamaha 5300 pre/pro is coming late 2021. Saw that mentioned on that other site.

 

[snakeeyes]

@M Code Yamaha 5300 pre/pro is scheduled for late 2021? Or is it further out?

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Monolith 7x200 and Monolith 5x200 shipping today. Not sure how many will be available. Emails sent to everyone who requested back in stock notices.

Monolith by Monoprice 7x200 Watts Per Channel Multi-Channel Home Theater Power Amplifier with XLR Inputs - Monoprice.com

The Monolith™ 7X is a state‑of‑the‑art, high‑performance, audiophile‑grade multichannel home theater amplifier. Rated at a full 200 watts per

www.monoprice.com

Monolith by Monoprice 5x200 Watts Per Channel Multi-Channel Home Theater Power Amplifier with XLR Inputs - Monoprice.com

The Monolith™ 5X is a state‑of‑the‑art, high‑performance, audiophile‑grade multichannel home theater amplifier. Rated at a full 200 watts per channel into 8 ohms an

www.monoprice.com

 

[EscapeV3locity]

Thanks, just ordered the Monolith 7x200 and Outlaw 5000x. I'm set now.