Unraveling of America? Is the decline of our "empire" a given at this point?

[mtrycrafts]

The Electoral College has flunked. It should undergo major revision, or better yet, be eliminated.

...

Elimination is a major revision, right.

 

[Jeff R.]

I have been following this thread loosely and to be honest I find the majority of the comments completely unhinged. The general sweeping portals of anybody who is not left leaning in unbelievable. Folks who are republican or trump supporters are called stupid, uneducated, abusers of women, and I can go on... I am actually ashamed of this forum. I have been a member for about 12 years now and actually feel as though I am not welcome here. I am sad to read the comments made about me and many of my friends and family. And just to be clear. Every stereotype that has been brought up does not fit me or my family. It is so sad to see people openly talk about this country as though they understand it all so clearly, yet you all clearly show in your comments that you do not understand the country. Only the bubbles you live in. I watch our country right now and am saddened. I don’t see all the smart folks on this forum trying to understand each other, just trying to convince themselves they are right or smarter that the opposing view. I am going to assume we are all very smart and educated folks on the forum, or we would likely not be able to participate in this forum. But as soon as somebody is on the other side, you are now stupid or racist on misinformed.... quite interesting to me.



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[Irvrobinson]

The Electoral College has flunked. It should undergo major revision, or better yet, be eliminated.

Too often, I've heard the Electoral College defended because it is said to protect the voice & opinions of the minority from the so called dictatorship of the majority. What a bunch of BS! Where in the US Constitution does it say that the minority rules over the majority?

The phrase you are looking for is "the tyranny of the majority".

I think in the US we live with some weighty compromises that were made to form the union originally and then again to aid what was seen as healing after The Civil War. I don't know if the union could have been successful without the Electoral College, but it would take an amendment to the Constitution to change it, which I doubt will happen in my lifetime. Many other compromises were made in the name of Reconstruction after The Civil War. It is difficult to imagine today how the Confederate leaders could escape being charged as traitors, but perhaps only now, 155 years later, are a majority of the US willing to see the Confederacy for what it was. It seems only a short time ago that one of the most popular television series in the country put a Dodge Charger with a huge Confederate flag on its hood in nearly every scene. We have a long way to go.

 

[John Parks]

I have been following this thread loosely and to be honest I find the majority of the comments completely unhinged. The general sweeping portals of anybody who is not left leaning in unbelievable. Folks who are republican or trump supporters are called stupid, uneducated, abusers of women, and I can go on... I am actually ashamed of this forum. I have been a member for about 12 years now and actually feel as though I am not welcome here. I am sad to read the comments made about me and many of my friends and family. And just to be clear. Every stereotype that has been brought up does not fit me or my family. It is so sad to see people openly talk about this country as though they understand it all so clearly, yet you all clearly show in your comments that you do not understand the country. Only the bubbles you live in. I watch our country right now and am saddened. I don’t see all the smart folks on this forum trying to understand each other, just trying to convince themselves they are right or smarter that the opposing view. I am going to assume we are all very smart and educated folks on the forum, or we would likely not be able to participate in this forum. But as soon as somebody is on the other side, you are now stupid or racist on misinformed.... quite interesting to me.



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Yup. The posters in this and all of the other “political” threads in the Steam Vent, with a few notable exceptions, brings to mind a favorite punk band from yesteryear:

 

[Irvrobinson]

I have been following this thread loosely and to be honest I find the majority of the comments completely unhinged. The general sweeping portals of anybody who is not left leaning in unbelievable. Folks who are republican or trump supporters are called stupid, uneducated, abusers of women, and I can go on... I am actually ashamed of this forum. I have been a member for about 12 years now and actually feel as though I am not welcome here. I am sad to read the comments made about me and many of my friends and family. And just to be clear. Every stereotype that has been brought up does not fit me or my family. It is so sad to see people openly talk about this country as though they understand it all so clearly, yet you all clearly show in your comments that you do not understand the country. Only the bubbles you live in. I watch our country right now and am saddened. I don’t see all the smart folks on this forum trying to understand each other, just trying to convince themselves they are right or smarter that the opposing view. I am going to assume we are all very smart and educated folks on the forum, or we would likely not be able to participate in this forum. But as soon as somebody is on the other side, you are now stupid or racist on misinformed.... quite interesting to me.

I'm pretty far to the right, more so lately when the left has moved so much farther left. Though I'm not a Trump supporter at all, I think he needs to go, I often do feel like my economic views are dismissed as those of a dinosaur. Too bad. I'm not buying the progressive arguments.

 

[Jeff R.]

Yes. I am a trump supporter and therefore admit I am stupid and ill informed and racist. I sit in the corner drool, stroke my gun and beat my wife. That’s what most America hears daily from most news cycles.

Quite sad actually. My wife and I are very smart and very successful, both engineers but clearly we are not smart enough or so stupid we get tricked everyday to think or vote incorrectly....


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[Irvrobinson]

Yes. I am a trump supporter and therefore admit I am stupid and ill informed and racist. I sit in the corner drool, stroke my gun and beat my wife. That’s what most America hears daily from most news cycles.

Quite sad actually. My wife and I are very smart and very successful, both engineers but clearly we are not smart enough or so stupid we get tricked everyday to think or vote incorrectly....

You have entered a den of progressive lions who hate Trump, and some even think the entire GOP is evil. If those views offend you, the steam vent will probably not be an enjoyable place.

So, why are you a Trump supporter?

 

[shadyJ]

So, why are you a Trump supporter?

It's not so much Trump I support, but more that I support SARS-CoV-2. It is an exquisite creation that must be allowed to flourish, to reach its full glory, and no one has enabled it to do that as much as Trump. How can you not admire its geometric perfection? A form of such sublime elegance that is matched only by the efficiency of its function. They say that form follows function, and in this light, SARS-CoV-2 is nothing less than biological perfection. Who are we to stand in its way? We, ungainly, clumsy, hideous bags of flesh. Let our wretched species be swept aside as one of nature's failed experiments. Trump sees this so clearly. He has removed obstacles such as our pathetic 'science' in order to let SARS-CoV-2 fulfill its teleological ends. Its blossoming will engulf us all in oblivion, and heaven will rejoice at this cleansing of Earth. THE TIME OF PURIFICATION IS AT HAND! LONG LIVE THE NEW FLESH! TRUMP/PENCE 2020!!

 

[Auditor55]

That is flat out wrong. Our nonunion sites make more money than our union sites in many cases. Unions are out dated. They discourage individuals from bettering them selves and climbing the ladder.


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Let look at the facts.

Nonunion workers had weekly earnings 81 percent of union members in 2019 : The Economics Daily: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

Among full-time wage and salary workers, union members had median usual weekly earnings of $1,095 in 2019, while those who were not union members had median weekly earnings of $892.

www.bls.gov

Among full-time wage and salary workers, union members had median usual weekly earnings of $1,095 in 2019, while those who were not union members had median weekly earnings of $892.

• CHART IMAGE
• CHART DATA

Median weekly earnings of full-time wage and salary workers, by union affiliation and other characteristics, 2019 annual averages

Characteristic	Members of unions	Nonunion
Total	$1,095	$892
Total men	1,147	986
Total women	1,018	792
White	1,127	917
White Men	1,181	1,012
White women	1,044	810
Black or African American	905	711
Black or African American men	948	746
Black or African American women	874	683
Asian	1,173	1,179
Asian men	1,151	1,357
Asian women	1,216	995
Hispanic or Latino ethnicity	954	686
Hispanic or Latino ethnicity, men	1,009	722
Hispanic or Latino ethnicity, women	875	622
Note: Persons whose ethnicity is identified as Hispanic or Latino may be of any race. Data refer to the sole or principal job of full-time wage and salary workers. All self-employed workers are excluded, both those with incorporated businesses as well as those with unincorporated businesses. Updated population controls are introduced annually with the release of January data.

ONCE AGAIN, UNION WORKERS MAKE MORE THAN NON-UNION.

 

[Auditor55]

You just can't get your facts straight. Bezos pays income taxes, it's Amazon the company that hasn't paid federal income taxes because they are using part of the tax code which I hate, called loss carryforward. It allows you to count past losses against current earnings, so a common strategy with American companies is to lose money during a growth phase, and then use the losses to offset future profits. It applies to individual taxpayers too, but Bezos makes hundreds of millions or billions in capital gains, and guaranteed he pays taxes on it.

Amazon's current market capitalization as of this posting date is $1.56 trillion.

I've read the articles about Amazon's working conditions, both good and bad. I'm not sure what to believe, but the conditions described in The Guardian article strike me as unsustainable, and I doubt Amazon management is that stupid.

On the other hand, many jobs are very physically demanding. Try being a UPS driver for a day, especially now.

That's even worse since corporations (which he owns) are treated as individuals. People like Jeff and others are tantamount to modern-day feudal lords.

 

[Auditor55]

Unions are not outdated the way they are run is outdated and in many cases the leadership is corrupt. The fault lies with the average union members because they continue to allow it.

Stop believing in the lies and brainwashing of big businesses, large corporations, and oligarchs.

Fresh Proof That Strong Unions Help Reduce Income Inequality

Fresh Proof That Strong Unions Help Reduce Income Inequality

New research demonstrates the direct and indirect effects of unions going back to the 1930s. Now that the union movement is weaker, inequality has risen.

www.nytimes.com

"New evidence shows that unions played a major role in reducing income inequality in the United States in the decades when organized labor was strong.

But it also demonstrates that the decline in union power since the 1960s — which may be exacerbated as a result of a recent Supreme Court decision — has contributed to the widening gap between rich and poor."

 

[Auditor55]

Or, like a good friend of spouse: I don't want socialism.

I want socialism.

 

[Trell]

You have entered a den of progressive lions who hate Trump, and some even think the entire GOP is evil. If those views offend you, the steam vent will probably not be an enjoyable place.

So, why are you a Trump supporter?

You know there are conservatives and Republicans that are just as offended by Trump, even in this forum or the Steam Vent for that matter?

 

[Irvrobinson]

I want socialism.

What a surprise.

 

[Irvrobinson]

It's not so much Trump I support, but more that I support SARS-CoV-2. It is an exquisite creation that must be allowed to flourish, to reach its full glory, and no one has enabled it to do that as much as Trump. How can you not admire its geometric perfection? A form of such sublime elegance that is matched only by the efficiency of its function. They say that form follows function, and in this light, SARS-CoV-2 is nothing less than biological perfection. Who are we to stand in its way? We, ungainly, clumsy, hideous bags of flesh. Let our wretched species be swept aside as one of nature's failed experiments. Trump sees this so clearly. He has removed obstacles such as our pathetic 'science' in order to let SARS-CoV-2 fulfill its teleological ends. Its blossoming will engulf us all in oblivion, and heaven will rejoice at this cleansing of Earth. THE TIME OF PURIFICATION IS AT HAND! LONG LIVE THE NEW FLESH! TRUMP/PENCE 2020!!

I finally figured it out. Gmoney is your alter ego. You're the same person. I always wondered what "Gmoney" stood for and now I know. I strongly suspect you're a paid contributor to AH, so Gmoney stand's for Gene's Money, and that explains it.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Let look at the facts.

Nonunion workers had weekly earnings 81 percent of union members in 2019 : The Economics Daily: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

Among full-time wage and salary workers, union members had median usual weekly earnings of $1,095 in 2019, while those who were not union members had median weekly earnings of $892.

www.bls.gov

Among full-time wage and salary workers, union members had median usual weekly earnings of $1,095 in 2019, while those who were not union members had median weekly earnings of $892.

• CHART IMAGE
• CHART DATA

Median weekly earnings of full-time wage and salary workers, by union affiliation and other characteristics, 2019 annual averages
​

Characteristic	Members of unions	Nonunion
Total	$1,095	$892
Total men	1,147	986
Total women	1,018	792
White	1,127	917
White Men	1,181	1,012
White women	1,044	810
Black or African American	905	711
Black or African American men	948	746
Black or African American women	874	683
Asian	1,173	1,179
Asian men	1,151	1,357
Asian women	1,216	995
Hispanic or Latino ethnicity	954	686
Hispanic or Latino ethnicity, men	1,009	722
Hispanic or Latino ethnicity, women	875	622
Note: Persons whose ethnicity is identified as Hispanic or Latino may be of any race. Data refer to the sole or principal job of full-time wage and salary workers. All self-employed workers are excluded, both those with incorporated businesses as well as those with unincorporated businesses. Updated population controls are introduced annually with the release of January data.

ONCE AGAIN, UNION WORKERS MAKE MORE THAN NON-UNION.

Stop believing in the lies and brainwashing of big businesses, large corporations, and oligarchs.

Fresh Proof That Strong Unions Help Reduce Income Inequality

Fresh Proof That Strong Unions Help Reduce Income Inequality

New research demonstrates the direct and indirect effects of unions going back to the 1930s. Now that the union movement is weaker, inequality has risen.

www.nytimes.com

"New evidence shows that unions played a major role in reducing income inequality in the United States in the decades when organized labor was strong.

But it also demonstrates that the decline in union power since the 1960s — which may be exacerbated as a result of a recent Supreme Court decision — has contributed to the widening gap between rich and poor."

Of course unions reduce income inequality. That is the intent of labor contracts that treat everyone identically. High performers are suppressed and low performers are over-compensated (and usually protected). And this article stupidly lumps public service workers into the mix. Public service unions are the worst examples of unions, since their workers help elect their managers, and the public service unions are allowed to endorse candidates, which I believe is a first derivative violation of the Hatch Act.

I'll ask again. Have you ever been a union member?

 

[highfigh]

Yeah, I feel you on your points, time will only tell huh. To much BS up in Congress to many running with there Religious conscience of what ever God they are following give you two Guess, one doesn't count which one is their God of choice. Them a$$hats pass bills like the money isn't theirs in the first place. Once one of them 80, 90 year old Senile Alzheimer's has taken over fools finally dies the laws and Policies that they passed has all but Ruined a Select set of Citizens. No jobs, all jobs that really matter for the working poor are overseas fuel Countries that hate America because Corporate America Greedy bastards funded a political party to get those deals in the first place. So now that Select poor working class has no other choice but to Sling Illegal drugs on the streets In order to feed themselves or their families. But yet the very drug money from Drug cartels gets Funneled up the chain to bribe Special interest groups so Lobbyists fools up in Congress to get their man in office or a deal made. I'm not Optimistic or pessimistic, or am I for Or against either party. I've seen enough in my short life that it isn't going to change not in my life time or anyones in the next 50 years.

Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same entity, just with different names. Pretty hard to sell that point on anyone who knows this but for those who don't, it's too easy to make them hate someone based on religion. It's usually the culture that people really hate.

 

[highfigh]

From the other side of the large pond I understand your desire for term limits for members of Congress. To be facetious I could point out that term limits is another word for elections

Getting rid of the US very extensive gerrymandering and introduce something like Ranked Choice Voting could go a long way to reduce the advantage of incumbents and have some real rotation among the members of Congress.

In general, I'm quite wary of introducing term limits for Congress or Parliaments that more or less reflects popular wills, but that is of course very much dependent on the particular system of government a country has.

Term limits need to be mandatory- if not, it's impossible to have enough different choices to make a difference and people tend to vote for the convenient candidate. In some elections, an incumbent runs unopposed.

We might have real rotation, but we would also need good candidates. Change for the sake of change could be disastrous.

The will of ignorant people doesn't help. When people base their vote on race, religion and other characteristics that should have no bearing on the candidate being considered 'qualified', we get people we don't need. I'm sure you know that some members of Congress were members of the KKK and John Birch Society and they did reflect the voters in their districts.

 

[highfigh]

Not trying to sell one anything just pointed out that the one's no names, who say they are Religious, try to pass laws on their Moral ship of what ever God they choose to follow, but yet they are, getting BJ's while sitting in the Oval office or Getting hookups with Prostitutes taking money under the table so to speak. Sure no one's Perfect. Money is something everybody needs its the way the system is setup some will do anything for money and money is what? Resource right? the more one has the more Resources one can acquire. What comes with money when Acquired? Power, more money? or power? which do You feel is Corruptible? Thats my point of my post. You choose to make it About religion I just stated Whos " God " one choose. You took out of "Context" one word from my post Religion and jumped on it with the way you see it. Good try though. That's called "baiting" seems to be used a lot on forums. But its the internet, cheers

I'm not baiting anyone- I should have continued about people who see one person or a group do something and retaliate against someone who's not involved in any way, just because the victim's culture requires something similar to the offender's group but the ignorance of the person retaliating causes them to show it. This happened in the Phoenix area after 9-11. A Sikh man was killed because the idiot who murdered him thought he was Muslim.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Is that by % of population as we have about 10x larger population.

That would be a very small percentage of our population.