Unraveling of America? Is the decline of our "empire" a given at this point?

[KEW]

This has been my point for the past 4 years. Trump is a symptom and not a cause. Micheal Moore said it best about Trump being the middle finger that middle America voted with.

And the provocative aspect that (I believe it was) Mayor Pete pointed out is that the votes for Bernie were in the same vein (the political system is broke and needs to be overhauled).
It would have been interesting to see how Bernie would have played out, but after 4 years of the "Trump experiment" (especially during a health crisis), I'm down for traditional gubberment for a few more years of stability before trying something quite so radical.
Hopefully a lesson has been learned about selecting a president without honor and integrity! I have been shocked at the extent to which an unscrupulous president can commandeer power. Much of his base supports his actions, but I don't think they have honestly evaluated whether they believe it is appropriate to allow any president to engage in the types of manipulations that Trump routinely does.
It is also interesting to see how effectively he has been able to weaponize his base against republican politicians who do not suck up to him!

 

[panteragstk]

What drives me nuts is when his supporters say "he's running the country like a business". Well folks, turns out the business he's running it like is Sears...if Sears were also holding a chickenpox party.

 

[lovinthehd]

This has been my point for the past 4 years. Trump is a symptom and not a cause. Micheal Moore said it best about Trump being the middle finger that middle America voted with.

Too bad those fingers just got stuck up their own asses. We get the government we deserve....

 

[lovinthehd]

What drives me nuts is when his supporters say "he's running the country like a business". Well folks, turns out the business he's running it like is Sears...if Sears were also holding a chickenpox party.

Is that an improvement over how he ran his football team, airline, steak company, university, etc?

 

[panteragstk]

Is that an improvement over how he ran his football team, airline, steak company, university, etc?

Well, considering Sears filed for bankruptcy, no.

 

[jinjuku]

Too bad those fingers just got stuck up their own asses. We get the government we deserve....

Those people are already fucked though. Misery loves company. Better your own fingers up your arsehole than someone else's from a certain POV.

 

[Ponzio]

What drives me nuts is when his supporters say "he's running the country like a business". Well folks, turns out the business he's running it like is Sears...if Sears were also holding a chickenpox party.

They seem to have overlooked the fact that he declared bankruptcy six times between 1991 and 2009. SIX' EFFIN TIMES!!!

Who invests in a guy like that?

Notwithstanding his vile personal/public policies, who in their right mind would invest their hard earned money and future on him?

Oh yeah that's right, the electoral college.

If he's not living proof that the electoral college needs to be reformed and modified, then I don't know what is.

 

[mtrycrafts]

They seem to have overlooked the fact that he declared bankruptcy six times between 1991 and 2009. SIX' EFFIN TIMES!!!

Who invests in a guy like that?

....

Russians, Some Saudis, Deutsche Bank

 

[GO-NAD!]

If I understand correctly, in the US, all citizens registered to vote must indicate a party affiliation or as an independent? And, all those with a party affiliation can vote in primaries. In the past, that may have worked fine, but in this age of such societal polarization and dependency on social media for "news" and "facts", isn't that just a recipe for producing a candidate like DJT?

In the Canadian and other British parliamentary-type systems, dues-paying party members (who have a genuine interest in politics and policy and not just a desire to extend a finger to, or blow up, the "system") choose their party leaders. The two largest parties here, the Liberals (Grits) and Conservatives (Tories) have about 300,000 and 270,000 members, respectively.

I'm not saying either system is superior to the other. While our system may be seen as more stable, the American system could be more democratic.

 

[KEW]

Somewhere in elementary school we were taught about how profound the US Constitution was with checks and balances to prevent travesties (like the debtors prison situation in England). There is an impressive amount of truth to that, but until Trump, we never had someone openly gaming the system to their advantage (or voters willing to turn a blind eye, or rationalize a "by whatever means necessary" argument for their causes). It clearly was not designed with the idea of a president like Trump.
I think the other shortcoming is while the Constitution does much to maintain "checks and balances" within the branches of government, I don't think the founding fathers anticipated corporations and associations buying off politicians (and certainly not the way the "Citizens United" rulings allowed).

 

[Irvrobinson]

Those people are already fucked though. Misery loves company. Better your own fingers up your arsehole than someone else's from a certain POV.

Have any of you actually talked to Trump supporters? You know, had an actual conversation? I'm not talking about just Republicans who think the Democrats just want to tax and regulate them to death, I'm talking about people who actually think Trump is doing a great job.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Have any of you actually talked to Trump supporters? You know, had an actual conversation? I'm not talking about just Republicans who think the Democrats just want to tax and regulate them to death, I'm talking about people who actually think Trump is doing a great job.

There are actually Trump admirers up here and I have come across a couple of them. Ask them how he is doing a great job and they cannot articulate it. It's just, "Well, he just tells it like it is", or "He puts his country first" and so on. I just don't get it.

 

[KEW]

Have any of you actually talked to Trump supporters? You know, had an actual conversation? I'm not talking about just Republicans who think the Democrats just want to tax and regulate them to death, I'm talking about people who actually think Trump is doing a great job.

I have!
They trust everything that Trump says.
They honestly believe that if Biden is elected he will dismantle all police and crime will dominate the US!

 

[panteragstk]

I have!
They trust everything that Trump says.
They honestly believe that if Biden is elected he will dismantle all police and crime will dominate the US!

My mom thinks Trump is a moron, but watches Fox News, so she thinks all this stuff too.

 

[diskreet]

There are actually Trump admirers up here and I have come across a couple of them. Ask them how he is doing a great job and they cannot articulate it. It's just, "Well, he just tells it like it is", or "He puts his country first" and so on. I just don't get it.

This nails it in my experience. I've been waiting over a year, with no answer, to the question "What has Trump done to make our country better?" from some family members. They don't seem to care. They love pretending to be patriots by wrapping themselves in a flag, but cheer the suffering of their fellow Americans.

I genuinely don't understand how anyone can support him. Outside of immense ignorance (brainwashed crowd that get their news from Facebook, Fox News, OANN, etc.) or being a person that wants others to suffer (bigots, endlessly greedy, etc.), I don't see how someone can support him.

Certainly his comments about ignoring election results and staying president no matter what are the antithesis of America's founding principals.

 

[mtrycrafts]

There are actually Trump admirers up here and I have come across a couple of them. Ask them how he is doing a great job and they cannot articulate it. It's just, "Well, he just tells it like it is", or "He puts his country first" and so on. I just don't get it.

Or, like a good friend of spouse: I don't want socialism.

 

[diskreet]

Or, like a good friend of spouse: I don't want socialism.

I'd love to hear their definition of socialism, and whether any of the myriad government benefits they receive fall into that definition.

 

[KEW]

I'd love to hear their definition of socialism

"Government takes your money and gives it to lazy people so they can buy meth."
Am I close?

 

[mtrycrafts]

I'd love to hear their definition of socialism, and whether any of the myriad government benefits they receive fall into that definition.

I would love to discuss that as well and all the government giveaways to businesses but not about to happen as she is a good friend of spouse.

 

[jinjuku]

Have any of you actually talked to Trump supporters? You know, had an actual conversation? I'm not talking about just Republicans who think the Democrats just want to tax and regulate them to death, I'm talking about people who actually think Trump is doing a great job.

I've got some in my family. They like the fact that he's sending Federal police into area's that have active protests going on. They also are enjoying a better stock market (can't argue with that one) and, it fucking kills me to say this, with the crack down on illegal immigration, wages went up for two of my nephews in construction...

So these are tangible things to them.