Dual PB-3000 or one PB-16 Ultra

[Baaj]

Hey I have dual PB-3000s for home theatre and something is still missing. These only sound good with the gain on max (0 on the app) and avr trim is set to -5.5). Am I doing something wrong or is the placement off?
Room is 1700 cubic feet rectangle and the opening is closed off with a curtain. Subwoofers are located in the front sound stage between the two towers and centres.

I haven’t bought rew yet and my receiver is a old pioneer model from 2003 using a y splitter to feed a mono signal to the subwoofers.

I’ve tried opposing corners however the bass sounds more better when they are located together in the front.

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[shadyJ]

That should be really loud. You might be sitting in a room mode. You would need to take acoustic measurements to know what is happening for sure. I wouldn't regard going from two PB-3000s to a single PB16-Ultra as an upgrade.

 

[Baaj]

That should be really loud. You might be sitting in a room mode. You would need to take acoustic measurements to know what is happening for sure. I wouldn't regard going from two PB-3000s to a single PB16-Ultra as an upgrade.

Alright, did I set it up correctly? I feel the chest bass when I have the gain set to 0 on the app which is full gain on the subwoofer. (Avr -5.5). When I initially set it up on auto calibration I set it to around the 12 o’clock position (-10 on app per svs).


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[shadyJ]

Alright, did I set it up correctly? I feel the chest bass when I have the gain set to 0 on the app which is full gain on the subwoofer. (Avr -5.5). When I initially set it up on auto calibration I set it to around the 12 o’clock position (-10 on app per svs).


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It sounds to me like you are running those subs really hard. Maybe you are hoping for more output than what they are capable. Nonetheless, you could be sitting in a room null where the pressure waves generated by the sub are cancelling out each other due to the dimensions of the room.

 

[kini]

Hey I have dual PB-3000s for home theatre and something is still missing. These only sound good with the gain on max (0 on the app) and avr trim is set to -5.5). Am I doing something wrong or is the placement off?
Room is 1700 cubic feet rectangle and the opening is closed off with a curtain. Subwoofers are located in the front sound stage between the two towers and centres.

I haven’t bought rew yet and my receiver is a old pioneer model from 2003 using a y splitter to feed a mono signal to the subwoofers.

I’ve tried opposing corners however the bass sounds more better when they are located together in the front.

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Something's wrong. You should be hitting around 120db at your listening position with the subs in that position.

 

[Danzilla31]

Hey I have dual PB-3000s for home theatre and something is still missing. These only sound good with the gain on max (0 on the app) and avr trim is set to -5.5). Am I doing something wrong or is the placement off?
Room is 1700 cubic feet rectangle and the opening is closed off with a curtain. Subwoofers are located in the front sound stage between the two towers and centres.

I haven’t bought rew yet and my receiver is a old pioneer model from 2003 using a y splitter to feed a mono signal to the subwoofers.

I’ve tried opposing corners however the bass sounds more better when they are located together in the front.

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How about near field in difficult rooms that can be helpful both of those subs directly behind the couch either sideways or firing straight into the back

I had in my old place set them up near field behind the seats and it was awesome

Getting max spl with tons of headroom and in that room fixed some room node issues I was having

 

[Danzilla31]

Hey I have dual PB-3000s for home theatre and something is still missing. These only sound good with the gain on max (0 on the app) and avr trim is set to -5.5). Am I doing something wrong or is the placement off?
Room is 1700 cubic feet rectangle and the opening is closed off with a curtain. Subwoofers are located in the front sound stage between the two towers and centres.

I haven’t bought rew yet and my receiver is a old pioneer model from 2003 using a y splitter to feed a mono signal to the subwoofers.

I’ve tried opposing corners however the bass sounds more better when they are located together in the front.

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From the way your subs are sticking out in the front it looks like you don't mind having them out in the room so near field behind the couches might be a good shot

 

[Baaj]

Bought one pb-16 ultra and now bass is hitting the chest nice and hard compared to 2 pb-3000.


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[shadyJ]

Bought one pb-16 ultra and now bass is hitting the chest nice and hard compared to 2 pb-3000.


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Sound like a set up issue. A single PB-3000 can outperform a PB16-Ultra in the mid-bass region where you get that chest punch sensation. Dual PB-3000s should absolutely smash a single PB16-Ultra for that effect.

 

[Baaj]

Sound like a set up issue. A single PB-3000 can outperform a PB16-Ultra in the mid-bass region where you get that chest punch sensation. Dual PB-3000s should absolutely smash a single PB16-Ultra for that effect.

Did I make the wrong choice for pb-16 ultra over the 2 3000? I’m considering getting a second one in the future and decided for a pb-16 to future proof my self. It’s also the top of the line svs product available in gloss black and looks much much nicer than the 3000 did.


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[shadyJ]

Did I make the wrong choice for pb-16 ultra over the 2 3000? I’m considering getting a second one in the future and decided for a pb-16 to future proof my self. It’s also the top of the line svs product available in gloss black and looks much much nicer than the 3000 did.


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To be sure, the PB16-Ultra is not a bad sub, but it doesn't quite have the mid-bass power of the PB-3000. I think the problem is placement. If you place the sub in a bad spot, it can leave a big hole in the response which will make it seem week in some respect. It sounds to me like the PB16-Ultra was placed in a location that gave that frequency band strength whereas the PB-3000s were placed in a spot that had an acoustic problem. There is also the chance that there might have been some phase conflict between the PB-3000s, and that will nullify output. The thing you, you can never really be sure of what the problem is until you measure the response. Instead of getting a more powerful subwoofer, I think you would have been better off getting a measurement microphone to identify the issue, but the PB16-Ultra seems to be working for you, so maybe its a moot point now.

 

[Baaj]

To be sure, the PB16-Ultra is not a bad sub, but it doesn't quite have the mid-bass power of the PB-3000. I think the problem is placement. If you place the sub in a bad spot, it can leave a big hole in the response which will make it seem week in some respect. It sounds to me like the PB16-Ultra was placed in a location that gave that frequency band strength whereas the PB-3000s were placed in a spot that had an acoustic problem. There is also the chance that there might have been some phase conflict between the PB-3000s, and that will nullify output. The thing you, you can never really be sure of what the problem is until you measure the response. Instead of getting a more powerful subwoofer, I think you would have been better off getting a measurement microphone to identify the issue, but the PB16-Ultra seems to be working for you, so maybe its a moot point now.

Yah I see what you mean. My receiver is very old and doesn’t accept hdmi so that’s my first upgrade then I will purchase a response measurer. I really wanted infrasonic bass that you feel throughout the sofa and I’ve never felt this sensation until I got the pb-16 ultra. Funny thing is I have it in the same placement as the 3000 and I use to run those on -0 dB. The pb-16 ultra is more then enough at -10 and -5 to impress friends.


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[bikdav]

That should be really loud. You might be sitting in a room mode. You would need to take acoustic measurements to know what is happening for sure. I wouldn't regard going from two PB-3000s to a single PB16-Ultra as an upgrade.

That sounds like a room mode problem alright. I have an 8ft X 12ft room (my "office") with the same problem. It took several tries to get the sub-woofers to play nice in the room. According to the picture, you have the sub-woofers in front of everything. Sub-woofers "like" to be close to walls and/or corners. Is there any way to back the sub-woofers up against the front wall to line them up with everything else in the system?

 

[Baaj]

So why would anyone purchase a pb-16 ultra over 2 pb-3000? Is there any benefit in getting a larger sub if all the feeling is in the 30 hz plus range ?


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[William Lemmerhirt]

So why would anyone purchase a pb-16 ultra over 2 pb-3000? Is there any benefit in getting a larger sub if all the feeling is in the 30 hz plus range ?


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Lots of factors to consider. All the feeling isn’t in the 30hz range, although that range is felt quite easily. Ime feeling the couch shake in the 15-20hz range is pretty awesome.

 

[Baaj]

Lots of factors to consider. All the feeling isn’t in the 30hz range, although that range is felt quite easily. Ime feeling the couch shake in the 15-20hz range is pretty awesome.

Yah that’s exactly what I feel now with the pb-16 which I wasn’t getting with the pb-3000. Guess I need to purchase rew to figure out what’s going on


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[William Lemmerhirt]

Yah that’s exactly what I feel now with the pb-16 which I wasn’t getting with the pb-3000. Guess I need to purchase rew to figure out what’s going on


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Rew is the best tool(especially being free!) that I know of that’s ready available with tons of support.

 

[chrysler82000]

Yah that’s exactly what I feel now with the pb-16 which I wasn’t getting with the pb-3000. Guess I need to purchase rew to figure out what’s going on


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I also have dual pb3k's in nearly the same size room as you, and I am getting a true THX experience. The lows are low, and spot on. I do understand you want that pounding and the svs might fall a little short there. I have been 100% satisfied with mine. My walls move and I've had to tack everything down to rid my home of rattles. Did you demo the Monolith 15's? I'm thinkin those might have been what you were lookin for.

 

[Baaj]

I also have dual pb3k's in nearly the same size room as you, and I am getting a true THX experience. The lows are low, and spot on. I do understand you want that pounding and the svs might fall a little short there. I have been 100% satisfied with mine. My walls move and I've had to tack everything down to rid my home of rattles. Did you demo the Monolith 15's? I'm thinkin those might have been what you were lookin for.

I heard the single monolith 15 and it was nice, but the svs pb-16 hits harder once you use parametric eq and boost the 20, 30 and 50 hz range.


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[txbonds]

As Shady pointed out, If you end up getting a second PB-16 and have similar problems, for kicks and giggles, try running one of the two subs out of phase just to see if it makes any difference. I remember back in the ole car stereo days having to sometimes run a mid/midbass door located driver out of phase (manually or via the headunit).

Don't remember the technical jargon but I guess the two drivers were cancelling each other out when run in phase. You may be experiencing that in your room.