Emotiva xpa-3 or Outlaw 5000x?

[DarthNooR]

I have a home system that I use for both music and HT. It is composed of an Onkyo RZ-1100, two Polk Lsim 705 for mains, one Polk 706C for center, 6 Polk S15 for surrounds, and a HSU V15H-mk2.
I think that the Onkyo is roughly able to drive these speakers but the 705 are known to be not very efficient and I a looking for a dedicated power amplifier to drive the front 3 channels (while listening to music or HT). I am trying to get some opinions about going for a 3 channel Emotiva XPA-300 or the Outlaw 5000x. The Outlaw is quite a bit cheaper, yet seems to get good reviews and the additional channels could later on be use for two extra surround or by-amp the 705s.
Any opinion about this or a suggestion for another amplifier?
I might actually just be paranoid and my RZ-1100 might just be good enough, even with headroom while listening at 75dB at my listening position (8-9 feet away from 705s). The Peak SPL calculator indicates that this amp would produce 109dB, which is more than enough for say 75dB+ 20dB headroom. The Onkyo power ratings of this amp are sort of fishy however and the Polk 705 get quite a bit lower than 8 ohm... so would it really be safer to use an external amp, even for moderate use, and, maybe more importantly, would I notice any differences while listening to a movie at ~75dB?

 

[PENG]

I have a home system that I use for both music and HT. It is composed of an Onkyo RZ-1100, two Polk Lsim 705 for mains, one Polk 706C for center, 6 Polk S15 for surrounds, and a HSU V15H-mk2.
I think that the Onkyo is roughly able to drive these speakers but the 705 are known to be not very efficient and I a looking for a dedicated power amplifier to drive the front 3 channels (while listening to music or HT). I am trying to get some opinions about going for a 3 channel Emotiva XPA-300 or the Outlaw 5000x. The Outlaw is quite a bit cheaper, yet seems to get good reviews and the additional channels could later on be use for two extra surround or by-amp the 705s.
Any opinion about this or a suggestion for another amplifier?
I might actually just be paranoid and my RZ-1100 might just be good enough, even with headroom while listening at 75dB at my listening position (8-9 feet away from 705s). The Peak SPL calculator indicates that this amp would produce 109dB, which is more than enough for say 75dB+ 20dB headroom. The Onkyo power ratings of this amp are sort of fishy however and the Polk 705 get quite a bit lower than 8 ohm... so would it really be safer to use an external amp, even for moderate use, and, maybe more importantly, would I notice any differences while listening to a movie at ~75dB?

The Onkyo amps are most likely better, based on specs and measurements I have seen. I would bite the bullet and grab a Monolith or Outlaw monoblocks.

 

[DarthNooR]

The Onkyo amps are most likely better, based on specs and measurements I have seen. I would bite the bullet and grab a Monolith or Outlaw monoblocks.

Are you saying that both the Emotiva xpa-3 and Outlow 5000x would end up sounding worse than the Onkyo's built in? The Monoprice Monolith 3x200w being better?

 

[Movie2099]

I have a home system that I use for both music and HT. It is composed of an Onkyo RZ-1100, two Polk Lsim 705 for mains, one Polk 706C for center, 6 Polk S15 for surrounds, and a HSU V15H-mk2.
I think that the Onkyo is roughly able to drive these speakers but the 705 are known to be not very efficient and I a looking for a dedicated power amplifier to drive the front 3 channels (while listening to music or HT). I am trying to get some opinions about going for a 3 channel Emotiva XPA-300 or the Outlaw 5000x. The Outlaw is quite a bit cheaper, yet seems to get good reviews and the additional channels could later on be use for two extra surround or by-amp the 705s.
Any opinion about this or a suggestion for another amplifier?
I might actually just be paranoid and my RZ-1100 might just be good enough, even with headroom while listening at 75dB at my listening position (8-9 feet away from 705s). The Peak SPL calculator indicates that this amp would produce 109dB, which is more than enough for say 75dB+ 20dB headroom. The Onkyo power ratings of this amp are sort of fishy however and the Polk 705 get quite a bit lower than 8 ohm... so would it really be safer to use an external amp, even for moderate use, and, maybe more importantly, would I notice any differences while listening to a movie at ~75dB?

Stay away from Emotiva. Bad customer support. Stick with Outlaw or Monoprice. Can't go wrong with either one. I own the Outlaw 5000 and it works great in my HT. I use it to power my front 3 and then leave my 2 surrounds in my AVR.

 

[DarthNooR]

Stay away from Emotiva. Bad customer support. Stick with Outlaw or Monoprice. Can't go wrong with either one. I own the Outlaw 5000 and it works great in my HT. I use it to power my front 3 and then leave my 2 surrounds in my AVR.

Monoprice is almost 2x the price of the Outlaw 5000x, and is out of stock but is rated at 200W per channel versus 120W for the Outlaw. I just would like to ensure no buyer's remorse with the Outlaw. The RZ-1100 does sound good to my ears.

 

[Movie2099]

Monoprice is almost 2x the price of the Outlaw 5000x, and is out of stock but is rated at 200W per channel versus 120W for the Outlaw. I just would like to ensure no buyer's remorse with the Outlaw. The RZ-1100 does sound good to my ears.

If you have 8ohm speakers you'll get about 150-160w/channel with just power the front 3. If you have 4ohm, you'll get about 200-210w/channel with 3. My speakers are 4ohm. I can push them hard and they sound amazing and the 5000 doesn't sweat at all. Has never overheated.

If you check the used market like Audiogon, i just saw some guy selling his 7000x for $650 I believe. Was less than a year old. That would've been a great deal for a great product. I purchased my 5000x on Audiogon and paid $450 and had free shipping.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I own the Outlaw 5000 and it works great in my HT. I use it to power my front 3 and then leave my 2 surrounds in my AVR.

Oh, I'm disappointed. Going from $60K dual Trinnov Altitude 32 to a lowly Outlaw 5000 amp and some - excuse me - AVR?

Haha.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have a home system that I use for both music and HT. It is composed of an Onkyo RZ-1100, two Polk Lsim 705 for mains, one Polk 706C for center, 6 Polk S15 for surrounds, and a HSU V15H-mk2.
I think that the Onkyo is roughly able to drive these speakers but the 705 are known to be not very efficient and I a looking for a dedicated power amplifier to drive the front 3 channels (while listening to music or HT). I am trying to get some opinions about going for a 3 channel Emotiva XPA-300 or the Outlaw 5000x. The Outlaw is quite a bit cheaper, yet seems to get good reviews and the additional channels could later on be use for two extra surround or by-amp the 705s.
Any opinion about this or a suggestion for another amplifier?
I might actually just be paranoid and my RZ-1100 might just be good enough, even with headroom while listening at 75dB at my listening position (8-9 feet away from 705s). The Peak SPL calculator indicates that this amp would produce 109dB, which is more than enough for say 75dB+ 20dB headroom. The Onkyo power ratings of this amp are sort of fishy however and the Polk 705 get quite a bit lower than 8 ohm... so would it really be safer to use an external amp, even for moderate use, and, maybe more importantly, would I notice any differences while listening to a movie at ~75dB?

I don't think you need an external amp in your case.

If you just want an external amp because it's cool, then I say save your money and get at least a 200WPC amp from Monolith or another high-end brand (Anthem, Parasound, ATI, etc.) - no, not Emotiva.

 

[mazersteven]

LSiM = Outlaw 2220

Model 2220

Mono? Mini? Micro? Magnificent? Whatever that M is, this is one UNREAL little single-channel amp. 200 Watts (conservatively!) into a 3-inch chassis with balanced input stage to offer Common Mode Rejection! MANUAL See Front Panel Huge See Rear Panel Huge

outlawaudio.com

 

[lovinthehd]

Seems the 5000x is very close to your avr in terms of power already, if you want a significant increase in power I'd go with at least 200wpc (keep in mind a doubling of power yields only a 3dB increase in spl). If truly worried about low impedance get an amp capable of 2 ohm loads.

 

[Movie2099]

Oh, I'm disappointed. Going from $60K dual Trinnov Altitude 32 to a lowly Outlaw 5000 amp and some - excuse me - AVR?

Haha.

Hahaha! Right! Only had $59k, so decided to scrap the whole thing and grab one 5000x and a dare i even say an AVR. People of AH, don't judge, i'm living in the stone age. If only I had that extra $1k i'd be living in the future.

 

[PENG]

Are you saying that both the Emotiva xpa-3 and Outlow 5000x would end up sounding worse than the Onkyo's built in? The Monoprice Monolith 3x200w being better?

Not at all. I was only talking about comparing specs and measurements of some of the Onkyo AVRs and Emo amps. Even that, I should take it back because I should not assume the XPA-300 would measure worse than the Onkyo. In terms of how they would sound, I do believe even at this level of gear, sound quality would be dictated by the recording quality of the source and the speakers in room performance.

Without any bench test data for the XPA-300, I would go with the Outlaw, though I still don't think they are that much more powerful than the Onkyo AVR on its own.

By the way, I just noticed you are now talking about the XPA-3, while in your first post it was the XPA-300, so which one are you really considering?

 

[lovinthehd]

Not at all. I was only talking about comparing specs and measurements of some of the Onkyo AVRs and Emo amps. Even that, I should take it back because I should assume the XPA-300 would measure worse than the Onkyo. In terms of how they would sound, I do believe even at this level of gear, sound quality would be dictated by the recording quality of the source and the speakers in room performance.

Without any bench test data for the XPA-300, I would go with the Outlaw, though I still don't think they are that much more powerful than the Onkyo AVR on its own.

By the way, I just noticed you are now talking about the XPA-3, while in your first post it was the XPA-300, so which one are you really considering?

Well, it would be the BasX A-300 perhaps?

 

[PENG]

Well, it would be the BasX A-300 perhaps?

I guess it would have to be, unless he actually meant the XPA-3. Either way, I am not a fan, I would take the cheap Outlaw 5000, that to me, while don't have impressive specs and measurements, is more of a known quantity, and more importantly really good bang for the money.

 

[ryanosaur]

I'll put my finger, too, on the scale for Outlaw Monoblock 2220s!
Three for $1K is a great price for some good clean power! I have 5ea 2200s and love them.

Model 2220

Mono? Mini? Micro? Magnificent? Whatever that M is, this is one UNREAL little single-channel amp. 200 Watts (conservatively!) into a 3-inch chassis with balanced input stage to offer Common Mode Rejection! MANUAL See Front Panel Huge See Rear Panel Huge

outlawaudio.com

 

[Timforhifi]

Sound and vision bench test has rz1100 at 256x2 at 4 ohms at 1 percent distortion. That’s as powerful as the denon 8500. Rz1100 was also 127x7 at 8 ohms 1% distortion all ch driven

sound and vision also benched Monoprice and outlaw too.

mono 7ch was 400x2 at 4ohms 1% distortion or 211x7 all ch driven at 8ohmd 1% distortion

Outlaw was tested here by gene and it did ok but is a step below onkyo in power. Still it’s not bad though and would help give everything adequate power. I don’t see it as an upgrade though.

Make sure you turn on pre amp mode in your onkyo too. Makes a good difference.

look at something like Rotel 1095 or anthem mca 50. Just so many choices on the market used. I’m using a nad t977 right now and it’s working great.

 

[DarthNooR]

Sound and vision bench test has rz1100 at 256x2 at 4 ohms at 1 percent distortion. That’s as powerful as the denon 8500. Rz1100 was also 127x7 at 8 ohms 1% distortion all ch driven

sound and vision also benched Monoprice and outlaw too.

mono 7ch was 400x2 at 4ohms 1% distortion or 211x7 all ch driven at 8ohmd 1% distortion

Outlaw was tested here by gene and it did ok but is a step below onkyo in power. Still it’s not bad though and would help give everything adequate power. I don’t see it as an upgrade though.

Make sure you turn on pre amp mode in your onkyo too. Makes a good difference.

look at something like Rotel 1095 or anthem mca 50. Just so many choices on the market used. I’m using a nad t977 right now and it’s working great.

Thanks. I am starting to conclude that there is a lot of snake oil business going on even in the review process of these amps. I wish we could find a reputable lab to actually make proper measurements of these amps rather than quote and then complain about the manufacturers specs sheet... (yes, I am furstrated)

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks. I am starting to conclude that there is a lot of snake oil business going on even in the review process of these amps. I wish we could find a reputable lab to actually make proper measurements of these amps rather than quote and then complain about the manufacturers specs sheet... (yes, I am furstrated)

Are you sure about that? What makes you think sites like this or others have measurement issues particularly? You think all measurements are done by the same guy in exactly the same way in the same place and time with the same gear? Are you sure you can correlate different specs/measurements? I saw your post in the Onkyo avr thread too and you seem awfully new to most of this....so would you please indulge us with an expansion on just what you are finding as "snake oil business going on".....

 

[DarthNooR]

Are you sure about that? What makes you think sites like this or others have measurement issues particularly? You think all measurements are done by the same guy in exactly the same way in the same place and time with the same gear? Are you sure you can correlate different specs/measurements? I saw your post in the Onkyo avr thread too and you seem awfully new to most of this....so would you please indulge us with an expansion on just what you are finding as "snake oil business going on".....

Too many reviews simply reproducing the manufacturers spec sheets with little care to even check for typos. The audioholics review of the RZ-1100 is not very informative. What else do you want me to say? That I bow to your genius and sense of superiority? There... consider it done. My sincerest apologies if I offended you.
Meanwhile, I have to say that I am very impressed by the shared knowledge of hobbyists who have indeed been patient and very informative and these guys have been great (including you of course)!

 

[lovinthehd]

Too many reviews simply reproducing the manufacturers spec sheets with little care to even check for typos. The audioholics review of the RZ-1100 is not very informative. What else do you want me to day? That I bow to your genius and sense of superiority? There... consider it done. My sincerest apologies if I offended you.
Meanwhile, I have to say that I am very impressed by the shared knowledge of hobbyists who have indeed been patient and very informative and these guys have been great!

Reproducing the manufacturer's spec sheets? Are we talking about bench test results or the "previews" which are based on manufacturer press releases?

The RZ1100 wasn't bench tested, it's not a full review. It's more an article speaking to the various way amp specs are published/provided by the manufacturer.

You can bow to me, but that's kinda nutty IMO You didn't offend me, but you made some odd comments and you still haven't really detailed what your problem is with what you're reading. Seems to be a comprehension issue....