Emotiva xpa-3 or Outlaw 5000x?

[PENG]

I think most people who own any of these AVRs don't need to buy an amp.

And if they need an amp, they can just sell their AVR and buy the RX-A2080, right? virtually the same as the A23+ in two channel output. The numbers you quoted are for 1% THD right, the A23+'s only 0.9%.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

And if they need an amp, they can just sell their AVR and buy the RX-A2080, right? virtually the same as the A23+ in two channel output. The numbers you quoted are for 1% THD right, the A23+'s only 0.9%.

I can't blame anyone for wanting a big brand name amp like ATI, Parasound, Anthem, Bryston, Krell, etc.

 

[lovinthehd]

Sorry, forgot to include the subjective fun part.

SoundStage! Access | SoundStageAccess.com (GoodSound.com) - Parasound Halo A 23+ Stereo/Mono Amplifier

This part included the link to the measurements I posted earlier.

Yeah under the heading "sound" it get silly with his "descriptions". Usually why I go straight to measurements with a review, and if only subjective, usually do not bother.

 

[Gmoney]

And if they need an amp, they can just sell their AVR and buy the RX-A2080, right? virtually the same as the A23+ in two channel output. The numbers you quoted are for 1% THD right, the A23+'s only 0.9%.

@PENG Outlaws 5000 Multi channel amp with a much bigger power supply ton of more Caps in Reality is more amp for the money and say pairing that 5000 up with any AVR with pre amp out would best just about any flagship line. Sure it's only 120 @ 8 Ohms, Genes test results where much better than what Outlaw posted up. Sure that 5000 isn't 0.006 @8Ohms. Still anyone wouldn't hear anything better or worse even if one did a Double blind test with a Pass Lab or Krell amp stack next to it with all thing's being equal. I'm no amp expert as of right now Outlaws 5000 is the king with the 5000 as best value for the coin.

 

[PENG]

@PENG Outlaws 5000 Multi channel amp with a much bigger power supply ton of more Caps in Reality is more amp for the money and say pairing that 5000 up with any AVR with pre amp out would best just about any flagship line. Sure it's only 120 @ 8 Ohms, Genes test results where much better than what Outlaw posted up. Sure that 5000 isn't 0.006 @8Ohms. Still anyone wouldn't hear anything better or worse even if one did a Double blind test with a Pass Lab or Krell amp stack next to it with all thing's being equal. I'm no amp expert as of right now Outlaws 5000 is the king with the 5000 as best value for the coin.

I would agree with you it is king, but based on Watts/dollar only. It doesn't have much storage capacitance at all, didn't you read Gene's review, thought you did so you must have missed his point on the cap.

In my opinion, the Outlaw 5000 is like an AVR on steroid in terms of current output capability. (sorry, I am beginning to hate using the term "power", that makes little sense for reactive loads).

 

[Gmoney]

I would agree with you it is king, but based on Watts/dollar only. It doesn't have much storage capacitance at all, didn't you read Gene's review, though you did so you must have missed his point on the cap.

In my opinion, the Outlaw 5000 is like an AVR on steroid in terms of current output capability. (sorry, I am beginning to hate using the term "power", that makes little sense for reactive loads).

Yes i did, still plenty for the buck. But PENG, 5 full channels of 120 x 5 Continuously! But yeah I get your point on the "term of power" I can't remember if Gene mention Slew rate if it was high.

 

[PENG]

Yes i did, still plenty for the buck. But PENG, 5 full channels of 120 x 5 Continuously! But yeah I get the your point on the "term of power" I can't remember if Gene mention Slew rate if it was high.

Yes, but by now we should all know unless you listen to MCH stereo mode, music and movies there is hardly any media contents that has 5 channels peak at the same time. If it did happen, it wouldn't be continuous. So why invest on parts to support "continuous..". For the same money, I prefer an amp that can do 225W X2, 150 WX3, 90 W WX5, to one that can do 100 WX2 and 100W X5, just for argument sake.

Did you see the pictures I just posted of the blue Mc meters showing "power output" of about 1 W most of the time when the big Blades were playing classical music with high dynamics at near reference level in a large room?

To me, its quality, and peak capability that is most important for real world use. "continuous" rating is more useful for appliances lol.. It is however, to a point/extent only, so I am not saying continuous ratings are useless, just that on a given budget, a smart amp designer will make better choice than one who is not as smart.

 

[Gmoney]

@PENG "Continuous, more useful for appliances" about time someone tells it like it is. "Continuous" is overrated in my book Quality over quantity I always say.

 

[audiophool7878]

I would love to politely hijack this thread if I could. I am in very much the same type of boat and would love some feedback from what seems to be some fairly knowledgeable folks in this discussion. I have a Denon 5308ci flagship and am on the fence about whether or not to add external amplification as well. I am particularly concerned as in my case I am looking to run a 5 speaker Polk LSi surround system (the original LSi that were 4ohm nominal). 3x LSi9 for LRC 2x LSifx for surrounds. My budget at present will only allow me to buy something in the range of the Outlaw 5000x. All speakers will be crossed at 80hz when run as multichanel (I never run 5 ch stereo), and perhaps at 60hz for stereo use.
I am not necessarily looking for any kind of audible improvement but am more concerned with not destroying my speakers and or receiver running 5x 4ohm speakers. I have had people on other forums tell me with confidence that the 5308ci is plenty robust to drive my speakers and that my fears are overblown so I am looking for some additional input. I feel as though my receiver is on par with any of the powerful receivers mentioned in this thread but please do tell me what you think. I listen in a medium sized room and I rarely go further than taking the dial to -10 db with trims of -1.5.
Do I NEED an outlaw 5000x or will my receiver handle what I'm throwing at it in spite of it's 6-8ohm specification.

Thanks all

 

[lovinthehd]

Your 5308 is plenty robust to drive your speakers If you did get the 5000 it's less powerful....

Denon AVR-5308CI A/V Receiver Measurements

Measurements This graph shows that the AVR-5308CI's left channel, from Multi input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1% distortion at 207.0 watts and 1% distortion at 235.5 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 279.4 watts and 1% distortion...

www.soundandvision.com

 

[audiophool7878]

I don't think you need an external amp in your case.

If you just want an external amp because it's cool, then I say save your money and get at least a 200WPC amp from Monolith or another high-end brand (Anthem, Parasound, ATI, etc.) - no, not Emotiva.

I just commented in this thread and would very much value your feedback if you have the time. You seem to know your stuff. Thanks friend.

 

[Timforhifi]

Your denon 5308 is more powerful then outlaw 5000. It’s actually on par with any emotiva too. That 5308 was the last true great powerhouse avr from denon. 5308 today would be an upgrade over denon 8500. (As far as power)

 

[audiophool7878]

Your 5308 is plenty robust to drive your speakers If you did get the 5000 it's less powerful....
m

Denon AVR-5308CI A/V Receiver Measurements

Measurements This graph shows that the AVR-5308CI's left channel, from Multi input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1% distortion at 207.0 watts and 1% distortion at 235.5 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 279.4 watts and 1% distortion...

www.soundandvision.com

Hey thanks very much for the quick response. Much appreciated. You just hear so much about needing to have an amp that is stable running 4ohm loads and the LSis in particular are said to have some low dips. I used to have an Outlaw 7500 in this system so I am having a bit of sellers remorse lol. But in your opinion, the 5308 should be fine under the conditions I mentioned? Glad to hear that

 

[audiophool7878]

Your denon 5308 is more powerful then outlaw 5000. It’s actually on par with any emotiva too. That 5308 was the last true great powerhouse avr from denon. 5308 today would be an upgrade over denon 8500. (As far as power)

I very much appreciate your time. Are you familiar with the LSi line being pretty tough to drive? Should be ok though? Especially crossed over at 80 hz?

 

[lovinthehd]

Hey thanks very much for the quick response. Much appreciated. You just hear so much about needing to have an amp that is stable running 4ohm loads and the LSis in particular are said to have some low dips. I used to have an Outlaw 7500 in this system so I am having a bit of sellers remorse lol. But in your opinion, the 5308 should be fine under the conditions I mentioned? Glad to hear that

One way to find out....use it. If it shuts down you're asking too much of it. If you do decide to get an external amp something more powerful than the 5000 would be in order....I'd look at much more powerful amps rather than something more lateral....and your screen name is....brave

 

[audiophool7878]

One way to find out....use it. If it shuts down you're asking too much of it. If you do decide to get an external amp something more powerful than the 5000 would be in order....I'd look at much more powerful amps rather than something more lateral....and your screen name is....brave

Brave and honest : ) I appreciate the candor. That's what I came here for. Straight and to the point.
I guess I was looking to avoid having a shut down all together but I suppose my ears can guide the way. Listen for distortion, etc.

 

[audiophool7878]

Your denon 5308 is more powerful then outlaw 5000. It’s actually on par with any emotiva too. That 5308 was the last true great powerhouse avr from denon. 5308 today would be an upgrade over denon 8500. (As far as power)

I guess I knew that it was more powerful at least in terms of on sheet wattage, but isn't there a question of low impedance stability that comes into play as well? For instance, is it possible that the outlaw would have less of a chance of shutting down or overheating, while simultaneously being less powerful overall?
Thanks much

 

[lovinthehd]

Brave and honest : ) I appreciate the candor. That's what I came here for. Straight and to the point.
I guess I was looking to avoid having a shut down all together but I suppose my ears can guide the way. Listen for distortion, etc.

I doubt that you'll have an issue...pretty straight and to the point around here for the most part. Another good one is audiosciencereview.com....

 

[audiophool7878]

I doubt that you'll have an issue...pretty straight and to the point around here for the most part. Another good one is audiosciencereview.com....

I promise I'll let you go here but let me just pick your brain one last time. Leaving aside for now which amp is more powerful, what if I were to have simply asked originally whether my Denon could power the 5 4ohm speakers I mentioned for 5.1 purposes. How may i ask would you have responded to a question posed that way? I know this receiver can kick as with 7x 8ohm speakers but am I pushing my luck with 5x 4ohm ones?

I'm a pain so thanks for bearing with me.

 

[lovinthehd]

I promise I'll let you go here but let me just pick your brain one last time. Leaving aside for now which amp is more powerful, what if I were to have simply asked originally whether my Denon could power the 5 4ohm speakers I mentioned for 5.1 purposes. How may i ask would you have responded to a question posed that way? I know this receiver can kick as with 7x 8ohm speakers but am I pushing my luck with 5x 4ohm ones?

I'm a pain so thanks for bearing with me.

The test results show very good performance into 4 ohm. It probably even has decent performance at 2 ohm. It's a good amp. I've used 4 ohm speakers with avrs less powerful....