Sub upgrade opinions

[ryanosaur]

A question from a noob about your comment here. I wonder if he means that for home theater people seem to like more bass? I would think thats why he asked this. Is this not true? Should you have the same amount of bass be used for music and movies?

A speaker should not color the sound by having any band of its FR out of line with the rest. Warm speakers (elevated bass) or bright speakers (elevated high end) don't really do any favors. Neither does the other common one which is depressed mids.
Because of room acoustics, your low end will normally rise a bit naturally. Some people go to the effort of using room correction or DSP to build a house curve that may further assist that low end rise.
At the end of the day, what you do with your system is your own business. But for a company to decide that bass and/or treble should be boosted by 5dB over any other band should be tied to the tracks and forgotten!
That some companies make a name for themselves peddling such speakers is astounding. But hey, there’s no accounting for taste!

All that said, I like my bass too, but I like to hear the whole spectrum of sound and I strive to keep my room as level as possible. My subs can quite easily still rattle the building, or I can just as easily stab myself in the brain with a piccolo solo at 90dB.
The key for me is that everything is in balance though. Given the opportunity I will always choose (and recommend) the speakers with the most accurate sound and flat FR.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

A question from a noob about your comment here. I wonder if he means that for home theater people seem to like more bass? I would think thats why he asked this. Is this not true? Should you have the same amount of bass be used for music and movies?

What I think Ryan is getting at is that, imo some people think that HT can just use some crappy generic speakers. You know, ones that don’t image well or have any dynamic range or clarity. Since it’s just sound effects, it’s not important.
Personally I think it’s stoopid.

 

[Space2013]

Over on the equipment thread, i just posted this. Reposting here as I'm thinking with the other upgrades it might be better to have two smaller sealed subs like the 12" models that I could put on the front soundstage next to the cantons. any thoughts on this idea in lieu of using the pc-2000 in the rear by the sofa? Thanks.

Okay, I'm sure some of you are not going to agree with my direction based on the comments about the Denon 3600/3700 test results, but I decided to order a New with warranty Yamaha RX-A3080. Went that route to take advantage of BB 24mo zero interest and based on my prior refurb experience I was gun-shy on that route. Should get it around the 10th.

This will give me a basic setup of:

Sony X950H 65" monitor
Yamaha RX-A3080 receiver
Canton SL 596.2 main L/R speakers
Canton SL 556.2 center speaker
SVS PC-2000 sub (although I'm sort of rethinking this one in favor of a few others)
And DefTech Promonitor 800 rear surround and front upper effect speakers (until I can upgrade them later to matching cantons)


I'm running basically a 5.1.2 setup at moment with the front atmos speakers wall mounted rather than ceiling. I'm intrigued with the speaker top 500 series atmos speakers from canton though, as I'm guessing they would replace my front wall mounted speakers.

On the sub-front, I'm back thinking about smaller 12" or 15" sealed dual subs but that may not be the best route with the ported cantons.

Sorry, I know I'm all over the board here. I'm done with upgrades for now unless I exchange the sub. This will allow me to get the old receiver and front 3 deftech speakers into my garage gym, along with the deftech prosub 800 once I get it repaired.

I’m on a similar journey with a similar budget! Sounds like you’ve made some awesome selections. I’m excited to hear how you like them.

 

[ryanosaur]

I would add that good speakers do not need to cost a lot. One cat's $10K a pair or somebody else's $1K... the important thing is to shop smart. Research, audition when possible, and have a plan. Goals for what you want to achieve in audio, up front and down the road, are no different from other goals. If you don't have a plan, you aren't getting there (more likely than not).

 

[kxthor]

A speaker should not color the sound by having any band of its FR out of line with the rest. Warm speakers (elevated bass) or bright speakers (elevated high end) don't really do any favors. Neither does the other common one which is depressed mids.
Because of room acoustics, your low end will normally rise a bit naturally. Some people go to the effort of using room correction or DSP to build a house curve that may further assist that low end rise.
At the end of the day, what you do with your system is your own business. But for a company to decide that bass and/or treble should be boosted by 5dB over any other band should be tied to the tracks and forgotten!
That some companies make a name for themselves peddling such speakers is astounding. But hey, there’s no accounting for taste!

All that said, I like my bass too, but I like to hear the whole spectrum of sound and I strive to keep my room as level as possible. My subs can quite easily still rattle the building, or I can just as easily stab myself in the brain with a piccolo solo at 90dB.
The key for me is that everything is in balance though. Given the opportunity I will always choose (and recommend) the speakers with the most accurate sound and flat FR.

Thanks for going into more detail with this. I will be looking for neutral speakers soon with a good sub.

 

[kxthor]

What I think Ryan is getting at is that, imo some people think that HT can just use some crappy generic speakers. You know, ones that don’t image well or have any dynamic range or clarity. Since it’s just sound effects, it’s not important.
Personally I think it’s stoopid.

Understood, fortunately for some of these companies, some people don't research. I however am wanting end game type stuff (my end game) so I'm looking and reading as much as I can. No place under 2 hours away to audition.

 

[Space2013]

I would add that good speakers do not need to cost a lot. One cat's $10K a pair or somebody else's $1K... the important thing is to shop smart. Research, audition when possible, and have a plan. Goals for what you want to achieve in audio, up front and down the road, are no different from other goals. If you don't have a plan, you aren't getting there (more likely than not).

Good advice! Although I sit at the other end and often never get past the research stage (analysis paralysis), but that’s a different problem.

 

[txbonds]

Good advice! Although I sit at the other end and often never get past the research stage (analysis paralysis), but that’s a different problem.

I feel like I'm the worst at analysis paralysis. It's a complication of being a perfectionist. Want to get it right the first time. And with things like large TV's and stuff, you almost have to as it's hard to audition or swap out Audio/Video stuff other than maybe with companies like SVS. Good luck. Hope you have it easier and less stressful that I've made it on myself. LOL

 

[ryanosaur]

Making mistakes in Audio Purchases is a tough pill to swallow. I've been fortunate, thus far! It took me over 6 months of researching speakers and subs before going out and auditioning some stuff I could find in my area. After that, I was pretty comfortable with the decision making process.
Hearing speakers, being able to relate your experience to that of a review, then cross referencing similar speakers. Reviews aren't good for much, but if you keep your emotions out of it and remember they are written subjectively, it is possible to pick some good stuff out. If you see 2-3 different reviews that all like and confirm each other, that is a good sign, too.
When I was shopping, the Monitor Audio Silver series were the only speakers I really found that hit that last one. After listening to them, I knew I could be happy with them. I still kept looking though, and ultimately found the speakers I have now.

 

[txbonds]

Funny I just ran the subwoofer matching feature on the SVS site and chose my new incoming canton's. Used the 595.2 front speakers since they don't have the 596.2 in there. Regardless it recommends the SB-16 ported or sealed for a system with cantons. The SB-16 is out of my budget so it makes me wonder how the PC-2000 is going to be able to do once I have the speakers and can try it.

 

[ryanosaur]

Funny I just ran the subwoofer matching feature on the SVS site and chose my new incoming canton's. Used the 595.2 front speakers since they don't have the 596.2 in there. Regardless it recommends the SB-16 ported or sealed for a system with cantons. The SB-16 is out of my budget so it makes me wonder how the PC-2000 is going to be able to do once I have the speakers and can try it.

Don't believe the hype!
I would love to see you step up to slightly larger subs. I know I mentioned the PC4000s before! But you do not need a single large sub. You will benefit much more from getting multiple subs into your space. 2 PC2000 Pros should capably handle your room, especially with good bass capable speakers.
That being said, I would still set your speakers to small and start experimenting with the XO at 80Hz.
When you realize the second sub in your home, hopefully you will have no more doubts. If you are able to do this within a year, and find you are completely unhappy, you can upgrade through SVS. (Its part of the price you pay to join the SVS club! )
Anyway, those PB16 Ultras are absolute monsters. You were worried about space before! Just one of those will eat up a huge chunk'o'space. You'll need to sell half that Sofa.
(Frankly, that might not be a bad thing unless you have a family of 12 you need to seat for movie night! )
But seriously, folks...
Pretty certain I recall everyone supporting your choice to aim for 2 PC2000 in baby steps. The new speakers are going to put it all over the top. Just stay the course, I say, and get that second Sub as soon as you can.

 

[txbonds]

Don't believe the hype!
I would love to see you step up to slightly larger subs. I know I mentioned the PC4000s before! But you do not need a single large sub. You will benefit much more from getting multiple subs into your space. 2 PC2000 Pros should capably handle your room, especially with good bass capable speakers.
That being said, I would still set your speakers to small and start experimenting with the XO at 80Hz.
When you realize the second sub in your home, hopefully you will have no more doubts. If you are able to do this within a year, and find you are completely unhappy, you can upgrade through SVS. (Its part of the price you pay to join the SVS club! )
Anyway, those PB16 Ultras are absolute monsters. You were worried about space before! Just one of those will eat up a huge chunk'o'space. You'll need to sell half that Sofa.
(Frankly, that might not be a bad thing unless you have a family of 12 you need to seat for movie night! )
But seriously, folks...
Pretty certain I recall everyone supporting your choice to aim for 2 PC2000 in baby steps. The new speakers are going to put it all over the top. Just stay the course, I say, and get that second Sub as soon as you can.

Oh, I'm not changing from them. Just found it funny that for the DefTech it suggested the 2000 range but for the cantons it suggest the sb16. says something about the cantons I think.

 

[KEW]

I would add that good speakers do not need to cost a lot. One cat's $10K a pair or somebody else's $1K... the important thing is to shop smart. Research, audition when possible, and have a plan. Goals for what you want to achieve in audio, up front and down the road, are no different from other goals. If you don't have a plan, you aren't getting there (more likely than not).

Then invest some time in setting things up!
A $1500 system setup with care will usually beat a $15000 system which has just been plugged in without taking some time to listen and tweak. When you get your speakers, yeah, go ahead and plug them in and enjoy them right away! ... but then take a step back and play with positioning and toe-in. Probably most important is subwoofer position in your room!

I finished it for you!

 

[ryanosaur]

I finished it for you!

Well said.

 

[txbonds]

Ryan, one thing I do like about that PC4000 is the XLR input. For a sub in the back of the room you could run a really long balanced line to it, but the Yammy 3080 head unit I ultimately decided on doesn't support XLR sub output so it wouldn't matter unless I had gone with separates.

 

[ryanosaur]

Ryan, one thing I do like about that PC4000 is the XLR input. For a sub in the back of the room you could run a really long balanced line to it, but the Yammy 3080 head unit I ultimately decided on doesn't support XLR sub output so it wouldn't matter unless I had gone with separates.

Get these:

Monoprice 25ft High-quality Coaxial Audio/Video RCA CL2 Rated Cable - RG6/U 75ohm (for S/PDIF, Digital Coax, Subwoofer & Composite Video) - Monoprice.com

This Digital Coax Cable is made from premium quality RG-6/U with double copper braid shielding to prevent signal degradation caused by EMI and RFI interference. This cable is ideal for conducting S/PD

www.monoprice.com

No need to spend stupid amounts of money. I have two 25' cables in use, including one run that runs right along side my 5 Amp Power Cables and a Power Strip, and runs parallel to speaker cables...
No Interference!
Far and away the best buy in my book for such cables!!!

 

[mazersteven]

It's a complication of being a perfectionist.

 

[txbonds]

Thanks. I book marked that. I have the wireless transmitters now but depending on where it ends up I may run one of these through the walls and across the attic if they really reject interference well.

 

[mazersteven]

Funny I just ran the subwoofer matching feature on the SVS site and chose my new incoming canton's. Used the 595.2 front speakers since they don't have the 596.2 in there. Regardless it recommends the SB-16 ported or sealed for a system with cantons. The SB-16 is out of my budget so it makes me wonder how the PC-2000 is going to be able to do once I have the speakers and can try it.

You are so Fucking Wishy Washy. Just like a Women

 

[mazersteven]

I hope this is Not the First Movie you Watch with your New System

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