I’d like to get burned on this opinion question.

[Pogre]

If you really wanna know... REL DOES make the best subs and sealed is better for music but we all lied to you and tricked you into getting the HSUs...

 

[Pogre]

Exactly why you have to take reviews with a healthy dose of salt. IMO, many reviewers have some kind of skin in the game. So reading between the lines is important. I’d love a link to the Rythmik thing if you could.
I like Rythmik, but for your use case, they’ll likely be very much the same as your “shoes”.

Yeah, me too. I wanna see some of these reviews/comments that @ematthews is referencing. I can go online right now and write a glowing review on literally anything.

 

[ematthews]

Who is most?? Tell you what, start a poll here and I'll bet you find it isn't "most"... lol

Not most here. Just do a simple google search and when asking about Rel vs others for audio, you’ll see what I mean.

 

[ematthews]

If you really wanna know... REL DOES make the best subs and sealed is better for music but we all lied to you and tricked you into getting the HSUs...
Well. I thank you then. Saved me money and I’m happy.

 

[ematthews]

Yeah, me too. I wanna see some of these reviews/comments that @ematthews is referencing. I can go online right now and write a glowing review on literally anything.

. Really?? You can’t find them? They are all over the place.

 

[shadyJ]

Just been browsing a lot on subwoofers. I’m not in the market. I’m super happy with my HSU subs. But a question. Why do most feel Rel subs are better for music than Rythmik??? I don’t get it. But I also chose the ULS 15’s over both those brands. Opinions??!!

I would say just look at the measurements, and that settles the matter. Brands that do not have or eschew measurements should be disregarded in discussions of performance.

One other thing I would add is that the vast majority of music isn't a very demanding application for subs. Typically the only musical elements that dip into subwoofer range frequencies are the fundamentals of basslines, and the fundamental of certain percussion instruments like kick drums or bass drums. It is very simple stuff. Movies are far more demanding, and I am not just talking about deep bass. I am talking about signal complexity. There can be a lot happening simultaneously within subwoofer frequency ranges for movie sound mixes. The idea that you need super accurate bass reproduction for music should be marched out back and shot in the head. Any competently designed sub that is also competently set up would be indistinguishable from each other. No subwoofer manufacturer will admit to that, especially high-falutin' brands such as Rel, Rythmik, and JL Audio, and they all have incentive to ignore that reality. I would encourage everyone to kill that myth without mercy.

 

[ematthews]

I would say just look at the measurements, and that settles the matter. Brands that do not have or eschew measurements should be disregarded in discussions of performance.

One other thing I would add is that the vast majority of music isn't a very demanding application for subs. Typically the only musical elements that dip into subwoofer range frequencies are the fundamentals of basslines, and the fundamental of certain percussion instruments like kick drums or bass drums. It is very simple stuff. Movies are far more demanding, and I am not just talking about deep bass. I am talking about signal complexity. There can be a lot happening simultaneously within subwoofer frequency ranges for movie sound mixes. The idea that you need super accurate bass reproduction for music should be marched out back and shot in the head. Any competently designed sub that is also competently set up would be indistinguishable from each other. No subwoofer manufacturer will admit to that, especially high-falutin' brands such as Rel, Rythmik, and JL Audio, and they all have incentive to ignore that reality. I would encourage everyone to kill that myth without mercy.

Great answer. Probably the best info any of us out there reading too much and wondering.

 

[mazersteven]

especially high-falutin' brands such as Rel, Rythmik, and JL Audio

You forgot one company

Bose Bass Module 500 – Powerful, Small Subwoofer | Bose

Want to add bass to your home audio experience but prefer something small? The Bose Bass Module 500 is the perfect small subwoofer or compact subwoofer.

www.bose.com

 

[lovinthehd]

. Really?? You can’t find them? They are all over the place.

I've known some groups/fora to get excited by Rel, but those are usually the really nutty audiophile ones, too.

 

[9397SVTs]

As I recall some of the lessons we’ve had from Headmaster Shady, driver and cabinet design, port tuning, group delay... All of these contributed early on to the creation of that myth. Most of these problems have been left in the past, now. With any of the companies we typically discuss.
It seems that when you move beyond that story, what you are left with is deciding on the FR and output profile (infrasonic v. Mid-bass), then the size and connectivity/UI options.
Other than matching Sub to room size, which includes sealed subs for rooms below 3000cu.ft, or support for large and extreme rooms, there is very little left to worry about.

In the end, the outliers are subs that have not been handled in-depth for third party tests. At this point, that is newer Rythmik and PSA subs. There are some older reviews of Rythmik on DataBass. If anything has changed with them, I can’t say.

But what I can say is that I would not use sealed subs unless I had a room smaller than 3000cu.ft, and be able to employ 3-4 in the room. Even still, my 2 porteds perform very well in my 2000cu.ft. room. Even @CB22 found the outlaws to perform well enough that he moved his old Hsus out iirc.
In the end it’s all about setting the subs up right in your room. If you get that done well, and you have a sub of solid quality and performance, there should be no musicality concerns.

Where does the belief that sealed subs are for areas less than 3000 cu.ft? Is this for a single or multiple subs?

I have a pair of sealed subs in an open floorplan area, living room/dinning room/kitchen, with a combined area of about 6441 cu.ft. The main area, living room/kitchen, is about 4517 cu.ft.

I am not lacking performance from the subs.

What am I misunderstanding?

 

[mazersteven]

open floorplan area, living room/dinning room/kitchen, with a combined area of about 6441 cu.ft.

What am I misunderstanding?

That's a little over 800 sq ft w/ 8' ceilings. That's not that big

 

[9397SVTs]

That's a little over 800 sq ft w/ 8' ceilings. That's not that big

I'm not suggesting that it is. I'm providing a basis for my comparison and question as to the 3000 cu.ft. statement.

 

[Pogre]

I've known some groups/fora to get excited by Rel, but those are usually the really nutty audiophile ones, too.

That's why I wanted to see some links. Entertainment purposes.

 

[Pogre]

Where does the belief that sealed subs are for areas less than 3000 cu.ft? Is this for a single or multiple subs?

I have a pair of sealed subs in an open floorplan area, living room/dinning room/kitchen, with a combined area of about 6441 cu.ft. The main area, living room/kitchen, is about 4517 cu.ft.

I am not lacking performance from the subs.

What am I misunderstanding?

What kind of frequency response do you have?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Where does the belief that sealed subs are for areas less than 3000 cu.ft? Is this for a single or multiple subs?

I have a pair of sealed subs in an open floorplan area, living room/dinning room/kitchen, with a combined area of about 6441 cu.ft. The main area, living room/kitchen, is about 4517 cu.ft.

I am not lacking performance from the subs.

What am I misunderstanding?

Curious though, what are your subs, and have you ever directly compared ported subs of a similar quality in that space?
People say all the time that they’re not “lacking” in bass, or have plenty of bass. Maybe you do have enough for your use case, and that’s great, but maybe you don’t know what you don’t know yet either. Room construction is I huge factor that gets overlooked too. Concrete vs suspended wood floor are two different worlds.

 

[9397SVTs]

What kind of frequency response do you have?

I don't know, nor do I know how to measure it.

Curious though, what are your subs, and have you ever directly compared ported subs of a similar quality in that space?
People say all the time that they’re not “lacking” in bass, or have plenty of bass. Maybe you do have enough for your use case, and that’s great, but maybe you don’t know what you don’t know yet either. Room construction is I huge factor that gets overlooked too. Concrete vs suspended wood floor are two different worlds.

I have a pair of SVS SB4000's.

No, I haven't compared them to the ported version. I likely don't know what I don't know, which is why I'm asking the question.

The flooring is ceramic tile on concrete.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I don't know, nor do I know how to measure it.



I have a pair of SVS SB4000's.

No, I haven't compared them to the ported version. I likely don't know what I don't know, which is why I'm asking the question.

The flooring is ceramic tile on concrete.

Well, generally speaking, the PB would have much great output below about 35hz. Your room is not very large, so you will have a decent amount of cabin gain, but also concrete devours bass. I like dealing with subs on concrete personally because suspended floors tend to exaggerate bass, as the floor itself resonates like a drum head and messes up mode behavior.
Although I would personally use PB’s, it’s possible that output and extension are satisfying enough for you. Honestly that’s great, but it’s just a personal thing for me to try not to leave stuff on the table. I’d like to hear your system and hear for myself.
As for the 3000 cubic foot suggestion, I think it’s just that. A suggestion. Use case will decide that more than an arbitrary number.

 

[ryanosaur]

Where does the belief that sealed subs are for areas less than 3000 cu.ft?

As for the 3000 cubic foot suggestion, I think it’s just that. A suggestion. Use case will decide that more than an arbitrary number.

The suggestion has been put forth that you start to lose the benefits of cabin gain around 3000cu.ft. No, not a hard fast rule. but as Bill suggested, the lower extended output of sealed subs is weaker than their ported brethren. But as has also been demonstrated (I think SVS Ed posted the graph in a thread early last year) that a good sealed Sub with solid cabin gain can can produce good quality extended bass.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong to do so, but for me, I would choose ported subs for any room larger than 3000cu.ft. *shrugs No Biggie either way.

open floorplan area, living room/dinning room/kitchen, with a combined area of about 6441 cu.ft. The main area, living room/kitchen, is about 4517 cu.ft.

For sake of accuracy, Volume is cubic feet (as in the measurements you provided)... Area is in square feet.

I could benefit from Cabin gain in my private room... it is ~11x15' closed room with volume af ~2000cu.ft. When I was shopping for subs, it was suggested my another friend here that I should go after (3-)4 ULS-15s in my space. The conversation that followed still leaves me laughing as Steve's premise was that with cabin gain the output and extension pluses would be very high. I reminded them that the long game plan would involve putting them in the >8000cu'ft greatroom to which it was immediately brought back to 2-3 ported subs capable of supporting extreme sized rooms

As I said before, no judgements. If it works for you it works.
Cheers!

 

[ryanosaur]

That's a little over 800 sq ft w/ 8' ceilings. That's not that big

With the Bassaholic room ratings, anything over 5000' is considered an extreme room.

The GreatRoom I mentioned just above is roughly 17.x' X 45.x' (iirc) and has a cathedral ceiling sloping from 8-12'. There is also some more attached open space that brought the estimated total to over 8300cu.ft.

Which comes back to another comment often seen in Subwoofer discussions: Pressurizing the whole room. Is it necessary?

 

[mazersteven]

I don't know, nor do I know how to measure it.

That's easy. When your Neighbors come over and tell you their NicNacks rattled off the shelves. That's how I do Measurements