Tinkering...pursuit of better sound quality

[Beave]

Also, one of the most important factors that so often gets overlooked - even by self-proclaimed 'audiophiles' who spend thousands and thousands of dollars on gear - is speaker placement and seating placement.

Placing your speakers in a good location and placing your listening position in a good location is often a big upgrade, and it's generally free.

If you can, post another pic showing where your speakers are, from seating level.

 

[Pogre]

The Phils that are being bandied about are top of the mark if within your budget. In my opinion they're a great example of modern design and tech while still retaining an old school feel. Those guys have been doing speakers for years. They're very special speakers.

Salk Sound

salksound.com

It does sound like you might be ready for a new receiver too. We usually always push speakers, but you are definitely due for an upgrade there as well!

 

[Merkules2001]

Speaker placement is definitely the quickest and best way to change the sound. If you want a crisp sound try a horn tweeter. Klipsch or JBL. Immediate difference. Rp500m new, 360. 30 watts will make them sing with your 2230. Sensitivity will tell you how easy or hard they are to push, well. I have both but the horns are night and day.

 

[dadriver]

Here’s a view from my chair. I do believe also that I need to figure out a better position for the speakers. Was intending to get taller stands at least BTW: I did have to remove the right side down to the floor, relocating the albums rack. It was getting flutter from TT at higher volume.

 

[dadriver]

The Phils that are being bandied about are top of the mark if within your budget. In my opinion they're a great example of modern design and tech while still retaining an old school feel. Those guys have been doing speakers for years. They're very special speakers.

Salk Sound

salksound.com

It does sound like you might be ready for a new receiver too. We usually always push speakers, but you are definitely due for an upgrade there as well!

Every time I try to answer that question I get error message that I’m replying to spam. I’m not limited but want to maximize the spend.

 

[dadriver]

Have you ever had the Marantz receiver serviced? It's from the early 70s, making it about 45 years old. I can see why you like the looks - it's very attractive in a vintage way. But there's a chance the capacitors in it have gone bad by now.

What is your budget? Are you set on bookshelf speakers?

Those Boston CR9 speakers were mediocre budget speakers 20 years ago. There are many much better speakers, both older and newer, for a large range of prices.

Where do you live? Are you willing to consider used speakers or just new?

If your receiver is still functioning properly, then all you really need is better speakers to improve your sound. If the receiver is no longer functioning properly (and sometimes it's hard to tell unless you compare it with a good receiver), then you'll need to look for new speakers AND a new receiver.

I live in Reno. Not many options to listen to good options...Sacramento is likely where I have to go, maybe even Bay Area. Was waiting until the pandemic is a little more manageable. The 2230 is in good shape, and I’m pretty sure I’m being sensitive to my concerns of quality. I’m not dissatisfied with the sound but believe it could be even better.

We were really going for the whole mid-century look and feel. But at the end of the day it’s all about the sound.

 

[Beave]

Thanks for the pics. That really helps us to 'see' what you're dealing with.

First rule of speaker placement, generally speaking, is to have tweeters at or near ear level. (There are some speakers designed in such a way that this doesn't apply, but in general it's true.)

Second, I would say that you want the two speakers to be in roughly similar places, ie, so that the layout is somewhat symmetric.

So if one speaker is on a 3 foot stand, the other should be as well. If one is six inches from the wall behind it, the other speaker should be as well. If one is 3 feet from its nearest sidewall, the other should be three feet from *its* nearest sidewall (this requirement can get tough to meet because rooms often aren't symmetric).

 

[Beave]

Next, you would want your listening position to be in the middle between the two speakers.

I see that in your setup, that will be hard to do because of the opening by the chair.

First suggestion, if you are going to keep the speakers you have OR get different bookshelf speakers, then get two stands, about 22" to 32" tall, and put the speakers on them, one on each side of the piece of furniture that holds your electronics. If you can't sit in between the two speakers, rotate the outer one so that each is pointing mostly toward your seating position. But you will still have a little problem of one speaker being farther away than the other from where you sit. Modern receivers can compensate for this, but yours can't. It may or may not be a big deal to you.

Second suggestion, I see that you have your receiver kinda crammed into that furniture, with the receiver on the bottom and other components directly above it. It has no breathing room. Receivers (or amps) generally generate a lot more heat than any other electronics components and need ventilations room, on the top and sides - but especially so with the top. The placement as it is now means the receiver is probably getting pretty hot. Over time, that can cause failures. That makes me worry even more about components going bad inside it, given its age.

If you can, move it to where the preamp is, so it has room to breath, and put the preamp down below with the dvd player and the equalizer.

 

[Beave]

If you're willing and able, you might get a better setup by moving furniture around. Take the couch away from the window, and put the furniture stand with the stereo in its place. The speakers will then be on the sides of the window. Then put the couch out into the room, facing the window, and use the couch as your listening place. That will give you some symmetry. It might help to get thicker curtains to keep some sun off the stereo and your turntable.

 

[Beave]

Just thought: Instead of moving the receiver up into the compartment above where it is now, you might want to just go ahead and put it on top of the furniture, by the turntable or wherever you like. That will give it the most ventilation.

 

[dadriver]

Just thought: Instead of moving the receiver up into the compartment above where it is now, you might want to just go ahead and put it on top of the furniture, by the turntable or wherever you like. That will give it the most ventilation.

Yeah...I’ve been looking at the position of the receiver and thought that I should move it. The reason why I put the preamp higher is that it’s easier to get to and use.

But just checking it now, the EQ & DVD player’s depth does not cover the vents of the receiver. DVD player is on its way out for sure!

 

[Pogre]

Every time I try to answer that question I get error message that I’m replying to spam. I’m not limited but want to maximize the spend.

You lost me. Did I ask a question? Or are you having issues with replying on the forums?

Do I see 1 speaker on the floor and one on a cabinet in that image? Oh my... Beave has some really good advice for you as far as speaker positioning. I think you can make some big improvements just with speaker placement alone.

Then get the BMR monitors. They have the form factor you're after and incredible bass for a bookshelf, which is a big plus if you're not planning on a sub.

 

[dadriver]

You lost me. Did I ask a question? Or are you having issues with replying on the forums?

Do I see 1 speaker on the floor and one on a cabinet in that image? Oh my... Beave has some really good advice for you as far as speaker positioning. I think you can make some big improvements just with speaker placement alone.

Then get the BMR monitors. They have the form factor you're after and incredible bass for a bookshelf, which is a big plus if you're not planning on a sub.

Not that you asked a question but the question of my budget was asked several times here and you mentioned it so I answered to the point in my reply for those following in the conversation.

yeah...at one time I sat the right speaker on the cabinet but moved it back down. Both are on the floor.

Thanks

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Not that you asked a question but the question of my budget was asked several times here and you mentioned it so I answered to the point in my reply for those following in the conversation.

yeah...at one time I sat the right speaker on the cabinet but moved it back down. Both are on the floor.

Thanks

One if the best things you can possibly do is get them off the floor, and up where your ears are. New positioning won’t overcome all deficiencies but the floor is a horrible place for speakers. One up and one down is probably worse than both on the floor though...

 

[Pogre]

Not that you asked a question but the question of my budget was asked several times here and you mentioned it so I answered to the point in my reply for those following in the conversation.

yeah...at one time I sat the right speaker on the cabinet but moved it back down. Both are on the floor.

Thanks

You should try to position them so the tweeters are at ear height. I would think both on the cabinet would be better than both on the floor. Ideally you want to make a triangle between you and your speakers with the tweeters at ear height. That last part is important because of the way higher frequencies travel. They're more directional, kinda like a flashlight beam. You want to be sitting in where the 2 "beams" from both speakers intersect.

Just ignore the additional speakers. The front 2 are what's relevant here. Not everyone can make a perfect triangle, but we do try to get it as close to ideal as possible.

 

[Pogre]

Would you be opposed to getting some speaker stands and a little rearranging of that corner? I really believe you can make some pretty big leaps in sq just with that alone.

 

[dadriver]

Would you be opposed to getting some speaker stands and a little rearranging of that corner? I really believe you can make some pretty big leaps in sq just with that alone.

yes to better stands than I have. Yes to better speakers...hope to get to listen to some very soon. We can reposition furniture a little. This room was interesting to us when bought the house last year...it’s a very nice space but functionality isn’t is strong point. Like I said though, sound is not horrible at all. I just like to tinker, improve, maximize. The vintage setup I’ll keep in this room but will look to invest in a more higher level in another room, also big space.

 

[Pogre]

yes to better stands than I have. Yes to better speakers...hope to get to listen to some very soon. We can reposition furniture a little. This room was interesting to us when bought the house last year...it’s a very nice space but functionality isn’t is strong point. Like I said though, sound is not horrible at all. I just like to tinker, improve, maximize. The vintage setup I’ll keep in this room but will look to invest in a more higher level in another room, also big space.

Well, better stands than you already have won't be hard since you're currently using the floor, lol.

I think you should work on an arrangement that gets you as close to that triangle configuration as possible and get those speakers up off the floor! I'm sure that space can be made to work with a little bit of positional eq'ing and getting them set up properly. That'll net you some improvements without spending a penny at first. Well, 'cept maybe a set of speaker stands. Something like this.

Amazon.com: PERLESMITH Universal Speaker Stands- for Sonos Play:1, Play:3, Klipsch, Sony, Yamaha, Bose, Pioneer, Polk & Other Bookshelf Speaker-Heavy Duty Floor Stands with Cable Management-1 Pair: Kitchen & Dining

Buy PERLESMITH Universal Speaker Stands- for Sonos Play:1, Play:3, Klipsch, Sony, Yamaha, Bose, Pioneer, Polk & Other Bookshelf Speaker-Heavy Duty Floor Stands with Cable Management-1 Pair: Speaker Stands - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Do a little measuring and pick a set that will put the tweeters in your speakers at ear height, which is usually around 3 feet when seated, give or take some inches. The further away from walls and corners the better. You don't need a couple of feet necessarily, but you don't want to be right up against a wall or corner either.

 

[dadriver]

Well, better stands than you already have won't be hard since you're currently using the floor, lol.

I think you should work on an arrangement that gets you as close to that triangle configuration as possible and get those speakers up off the floor! I'm sure that space can be made to work with a little bit of positional eq'ing and getting them set up properly. That'll net you some improvements without spending a penny at first. Well, 'cept maybe a set of speaker stands. Something like this.

Amazon.com: PERLESMITH Universal Speaker Stands- for Sonos Play:1, Play:3, Klipsch, Sony, Yamaha, Bose, Pioneer, Polk & Other Bookshelf Speaker-Heavy Duty Floor Stands with Cable Management-1 Pair: Kitchen & Dining

Buy PERLESMITH Universal Speaker Stands- for Sonos Play:1, Play:3, Klipsch, Sony, Yamaha, Bose, Pioneer, Polk & Other Bookshelf Speaker-Heavy Duty Floor Stands with Cable Management-1 Pair: Speaker Stands - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Do a little measuring and pick a set that will put the tweeters in your speakers at ear height, which is usually around 3 feet when seated, give or take some inches. The further away from walls and corners the better. You don't need a couple of feet necessarily, but you don't want to be right up against a wall or corner either.

agreed...no argument. But just to assure you that I’m not a complete imbecile, just a little , they are not “on the floor.” They sit on a 6” black metal stands. Part of the challenge here is appeasing the Mrs. and her design taste.

 

[Pogre]

agreed...no argument. But just to assure you that I’m not a complete imbecile, just a little , they are not “on the floor.” They sit on a 6” black metal stands. Part of the challenge here is appeasing the Mrs. and her design taste.

Whoah, Whoah, whoah... I apologize if you feel like I think you're an imbecile! I was only responding to this post you made earlier.

yeah...at one time I sat the right speaker on the cabinet but moved it back down. Both are on the floor.

I have no clue what your level of understanding is with audio so I was just being thorough. That said, yes 6" is still pretty low to the ground. My current books are about 12" tall and the tweeter is at the top of the cabinet so ~2' stands would work great for me.