Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers RAAL Tweeters

[Pogre]

So I found a pair of Sierra 2s out here on Craigslist for $650 and jumped on them. I've been going back and forth between those and my Ultra towers for a couple of weeks now. I have determined that I do prefer the Sierras, but am hitting their limits.

After mulling it over I finally decided to pull the trigger. I ordered a pair of Sierra towers with RAAL tweets! They have the cabs, but are oos on the tweets until the end of the month so I have a bit of a wait. After I heard those RAALs tho, I was sold. All I had to do was convince the wife, who of course said no at first. After a little bit of convincing I found out that her main reason for hesitating is because she doesn't want smaller speakers!

How many guys have that as a problem?! God I love her sometimes.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think @little wing has the towers....

 

[Pogre]

I bumped into @John Galt over at the Ascend forums too. Pretty sure he's posted here before. Didn't @ematthews have a pair also? I saw an old thread of his got bumped not long ago and I think I remember him saying he had something with RAAL tweets in it...

I posted this thread early this morning and judging from the tumbleweeds blowing through here over the last 7 hours I was beginning to think maybe I made a big mistake...

"Oh no! How do we tell Pogre he messed up? He should NEVER have gotten THOSE speakers..."

I can still cancel the order...

 

[lovinthehd]

I bumped into @John Galt over at the Ascend forums too. Pretty sure he's posted here before. Didn't @ematthews have a pair also? I saw an old thread of his got bumped not long ago and I think I remember him saying he had something with RAAL tweets in it...

I posted this thread early this morning and judging from the tumbleweeds blowing through here over the last 7 hours I was beginning to think maybe I made a big mistake...

"Oh no! How do we tell Pogre he messed up? He should NEVER have gotten THOSE speakers..."

I can still cancel the order...

Or they are just jelly of your wife's position

 

[little wing]

I do. I've had the towers with the raals now for about 5 years. I've listened to quite a few speakers in their price range and nothing I heard made me want to sell them and switch to different speakers. The raal tweeter is very transparent and not bright at all. Clear midrange and good bass. But they do need a sub to get the most out of them. I drive them with a Yamaha 3060 with no issues at all in my smallish 12' by 17' listening space. The Rythmik sub fills in the lower end for me.

 

[little wing]

So I found a pair of Sierra 2s out here on Craigslist for $650 and jumped on them. I've been going back and forth between those and my Ultra towers for a couple of weeks now. I have determined that I do prefer the Sierras, but am hitting their limits.

After mulling it over I finally decided to pull the trigger. I ordered a pair of Sierra towers with RAAL tweets! They have the cabs, but are oos on the tweets until the end of the month so I have a bit of a wait. After I heard those RAALs tho, I was sold. All I had to do was convince the wife, who of course said no at first. After a little bit of convincing I found out that her main reason for hesitating is because she doesn't want smaller speakers!

How many guys have that as a problem?! God I love her sometimes.

Congrats!!!

It's been a really good speaker for me. Didn't break the bank, bit thoroughly enjoy my music and movies with them. They are transparent enough to let you hear the differences in source material, but are not bright, even when you crank them. Ok..now back to Coltrane

Congrats again man, I think you'll love them. Offer still stands to come to Tucson for a listen, if you get bored.

 

[Pogre]

I do. I've had the towers with the raals now for about 5 years. I've listened to quite a few speakers in their price range and nothing I heard made me want to sell them and switch to different speakers. The raal tweeter is very transparent and not bright at all. Clear midrange and good bass. But they do need a sub to get the most out of them. I drive them with a Yamaha 3060 with no issues at all in my smallish 12' by 17' listening space. The Rythmik sub fills in the lower end for me.

I have to agree with you about those RAALs. The Sierra 2s I found haven them also and listening to them over the last couple of weeks is what sold me. They're a little bit more transparent and detailed than my Ultras, but I've hit their limits a couple times and after talking with Dave I haven't turned them up past 75-80 dB at my seat.

When I said "reference" and "sit 15' from my speakers" he replied with "tear ribbon" and "void warranty"... lol. No thanks! I'll take a pair of towers pls!

The towers use a beefier ribbon that can handle more power and they have a higher sensitivity than the books or my Ultras, for that matter. They should be able to satisfy my occasional desire to crank up a favorite song or something without melting so that's a big plus!

I'm all excited and can't wait, but they won't be getting their next shipment of the 70-20 xram RAALs until the end of the month so I have a bit of a wait... sigh. Dina, who I spoke with at Ascend said I'm in first position on the waiting list. They'll get the assembly started a few days before they expect the tweets to arrive so as soon as they're in they can finish assembly pretty quick and get 'em shipped.

 

[Pogre]

Congrats!!!

It's been a really good speaker for me. Didn't break the bank, bit thoroughly enjoy my music and movies with them. They are transparent enough to let you hear the differences in source material, but are not bright, even when you crank them. Ok..now back to Coltrane

Congrats again man, I think you'll love them. Offer still stands to come to Tucson for a listen, if you get bored.

That's right! I forgot you're only a few hours away from me! One of these days I might take you up on that. I'd need pretty much an entire day for it. You're not TOO far from me, but you're not exactly right around the corner either. I think Tucson is about a 4 hour drive from Mesa?

 

[snakeeyes]

Congrats @Pogre !!!

 

[little wing]

That's right! I forgot you're only a few hours away from me! One of these days I might take you up on that. I'd need pretty much an entire day for it. You're not TOO far from me, but you're not exactly right around the corner either. I think Tucson is about a 4 hour drive from Mesa?

I bought my car in Mesa. About 1 hour and forty minutes drive

 

[little wing]

I have to agree with you about those RAALs. The Sierra 2s I found haven them also and listening to them over the last couple of weeks is what sold me. They're a little bit more transparent and detailed than my Ultras, but I've hit their limits a couple times and after talking with Dave I haven't turned them up past 75-80 dB at my seat.

When I said "reference" and "sit 15' from my speakers" he replied with "tear ribbon" and "void warranty"... lol. No thanks! I'll take a pair of towers pls!

The towers use a beefier ribbon that can handle more power and they have a higher sensitivity than the books or my Ultras, for that matter. They should be able to satisfy my occasional desire to crank up a favorite song or something without melting so that's a big plus!

I'm all excited and can't wait, but they won't be getting their next shipment of the 70-20 xram RAALs until the end of the month so I have a bit of a wait... sigh. Dina, who I spoke with at Ascend said I'm in first position on the waiting list. They'll get the assembly started a few days before they expect the tweets to arrive so as soon as they're in they can finish assembly pretty quick and get 'em shipped.

LOL, tear ribbon and void warranty are two things you don't want to hear. Dina is an absolute pleasure to work with! Very understanding with audio nuts like us, very prompt at returning phone calls. Just a pleasure.

I have used an SPL meter with my phone, (Don't know how accurate they are) and I've hit peaks of about 75 -80db but backed off quickly. Way too loud for me.

 

[NINaudio]

You've got to wait a month? Man, I feel soo bad for you...

 

[Pogre]

You've got to wait a month? Man, I feel soo bad for you...

You're the first person I thought about when she said that! Ha ha! How long is your wait? I know it's been a while. It takes time to get those beautiful finishes to come out right!

 

[NINaudio]

You're the first person I thought about when she said that! Ha ha! How long is your wait? I know it's been a while. It takes time to get those beautiful finishes to come out right!

Was originally stated to be 3 months, but that was before Michigan got shut down. No idea what it is now. Probably 2-3 months more once they can get back open.

In all seriousness though, congrats, the Raal's are a thing of beauty as you've discovered!

 

[John Galt]

I bumped into @John Galt over at the Ascend forums too. Pretty sure he's posted here before. Didn't @ematthews have a pair also? I saw an old thread of his got bumped not long ago and I think I remember him saying he had something with RAAL tweets in it...

I posted this thread early this morning and judging from the tumbleweeds blowing through here over the last 7 hours I was beginning to think maybe I made a big mistake...

"Oh no! How do we tell Pogre he messed up? He should NEVER have gotten THOSE speakers..."

I can still cancel the order...

I‘m happy with mine. They sound better than my prior B&W 683 S2s.

The more I listen to them, the more I like them. Of course they don’t have integrated 8” woofers like your Primes do, but you obviously know that. I think that dedicated subs are necessary for my preferences anyway, but the RAAL towers have decent bass even with the subs disabled (I prefer some older music in pure direct mode).

Excited to hear your opinions when you get a chance to really hear them. I’m really interested to hear your opinion vs the Primes as I considered those, but they were just too large for my room.

 

[John Galt]

I have to agree with you about those RAALs. The Sierra 2s I found haven them also and listening to them over the last couple of weeks is what sold me. They're a little bit more transparent and detailed than my Ultras, but I've hit their limits a couple times and after talking with Dave I haven't turned them up past 75-80 dB at my seat.

When I said "reference" and "sit 15' from my speakers" he replied with "tear ribbon" and "void warranty"... lol. No thanks! I'll take a pair of towers pls!

The towers use a beefier ribbon that can handle more power and they have a higher sensitivity than the books or my Ultras, for that matter. They should be able to satisfy my occasional desire to crank up a favorite song or something without melting so that's a big plus!

I'm all excited and can't wait, but they won't be getting their next shipment of the 70-20 xram RAALs until the end of the month so I have a bit of a wait... sigh. Dina, who I spoke with at Ascend said I'm in first position on the waiting list. They'll get the assembly started a few days before they expect the tweets to arrive so as soon as they're in they can finish assembly pretty quick and get 'em shipped.

Interesting. When I asked Dave about a ‘just in case’ replacement RAAL ribbon for the towers he responded:

“I would not categorize the ribbon tweeters as fragile. Yes, they can certainly be damaged in transit or possibly by a misplaced finger somehow punching through the protective screen - but all of your speakers have arrived without issue. There is no reason to be concerned.

To this date, in many thousands sold, we have only had 1 customer damage a 70-20xram ribbon, which is the ribbon in your tower. It was from very obvious misuse. In fact, we have had more dome tweeters fail than 70-20 ribbons, it is one of the most durable and reliable tweeters I have ever used in my 35+ years in this industry.”

Maybe Dave can elaborate.

 

[Pogre]

Interesting. When I asked Dave about a ‘just in case’ replacement RAAL ribbon for the towers he responded: “
I would not categorize the ribbon tweeters as fragile. Yes, they can certainly be damaged in transit or possibly by a misplaced finger somehow punching through the protective screen - but all of your speakers have arrived without issue. There is no reason to be concerned.

To this date, in many thousands sold, we have only had 1 customer damage a 70-20xram ribbon, which is the ribbon in your tower. It was from very obvious misuse. In fact, we have had more dome tweeters fail than 70-20 ribbons, it is one of the most durable and reliable tweeters I have ever used in my 35+ years in this industry.”

Maybe Dave can elaborate.

That's funny. This is what he said to me in my intro thread.

Pogre,

Very happy to hear that you have been enjoying the Sierra-2. Reference level at a 15 foot listening distance with a speaker rated at 86-87 dB sensitivity is very problematic. To reach 85dB from one speaker at this distance requires only about 20 watts of power into the speaker. The problem is that there is 20dB of headroom, such that reference level peaks = 105dB. To be able to reproduce these peaks at your listening distance with speakers rated at this sensitivity requires a massive 1600 watts of power. Your receiver or amplifier does not have that kind of power (nor can a speaker handle anywhere near this), thus you run the very real risk of causing your amp/receiver to clip badly. This can cause extensive damage to your speakers that is not covered under warranty.

At your listening distance, I highly recommend going with our towers, which have much higher sensitivity and can also handle more power.

Hope this makes sense!

Then when I asked someone about the Salk Song3 he said this.

Salk Song 3 is a nice speaker, but it is really no different than the Sierra-2 from about 60Hz and up with regard to power handling and sensitivity. The Song Song 3 essentially uses the same RAAL ribbon as our Sierra-2 and a significantly smaller midrange. The issues that I have mentioned is power handling of the speaker and clipping of your amp or receiver to reach the volume levels at your listening distance. The result of testing these limits might very well be a torn 64-10 ribbon tweeter (expensive to replace).

We use RAAL's best ribbon tweeter in our tower for just this reason, a custom version of their 70-20xram. This ribbon can handle about 3x the power of the 64-10 and has a unique damping system that prevents various types of distortion (such as transverse waves caused by clipping) from tearing the ribbon. This ribbon is specifically designed for massive dynamics, an even smoother polar response and the ribbon element can be replaced without having to replace the entire tweeter. The 70-20xram is also about 4-5 times the cost of the 64-10 but for those that want to play at reference levels, or anywhere close - especially at a 15 foot listening distance, it is the safest and best choice.

In addition, the 3dB higher sensitivity of our tower is very important in your situation. If you are not familiar with how this works, it means that if it takes 200 watts of power to reach reference level peaks in the Song 3, it will take half that power to reach the same volume level with our towers (100 watts)

If you are looking at Salk and want to stick with the ribbon, look at something with 90dB+ sensitivity and that uses the RAAL 70-20

That seems pretty elaborate to me. He's seems very adamant about it to me. Anyway, that and the $400 price difference is what sold me.

 

[Pogre]

I even quoted him for clarification, because I hadn't told him that I'm crossing over to a sub at 80 hz and this was his reply to that.

Adding a subwoofer and high passing the speakers does not change the numbers I provided you previously. The issue is your listening distance in combination with the sensitivity of the speaker and the volume levels you want to play at. To be able to reproduce the 20dB peaks in movie soundtracks without clipping, the "math" indicates that you should not go over 80dB. I would say this is the "safe" range at your listening distance, giving you ~ 15dB of headroom.

Did I just get sales pitched?!

 

[Pogre]

To this date, in many thousands sold, we have only had 1 customer damage a 70-20xram ribbon, which is the ribbon in your tower. It was from very obvious misuse. In fact, we have had more dome tweeters fail than 70-20 ribbons, it is one of the most durable and reliable tweeters I have ever used in my 35+ years in this industry.”

This is it! He's not using the 70-20 in the Sierra 2s. It's the 64-10. That's why I got the warning.

 

[John Galt]

This is it! He's not using the 70-20 in the Sierra 2s. It's the 64-10. That's why I got the warning.

If you’re like me, and this isn’t a trivial purchase considering the lack of a zero cost shipping return policy, I understand your apprehension when pulling the trigger. That said, I’m very happy with my towers and they continue to reveal details in my music that I’ve never heard before.