Stereo Amplifier + Denon X4500H

[dolph.inus]

I want your advice about a topic. I got home theater system including old Klipsch Reference 62 II series speakers and DENON AVR-X4500H amp. I am really satisfied as movie performance. What I wanna do is about music performance. I will add turntable to system, probably audio technica models. I wanna play with bass and treble and pop up audio quality .

In this concern I look at the stereo amp Yamaha,Denon,Onkyo, Marantz etc. As Denon user I am close to Denon PMA -1600 NE and PMA -2500 NE. Marantz PM 8006 and Yamaha A-S801BL might be other choices.

I think to connect my Klipsch RF62 IIs ( Power Handling 125W RMS / 500W Peak - Sensitivity97dB @ 2.83V / 1m , 8 ohm ) to stereo amp and bound this system to Denon AVR 4500 preouts. Does this attempt contribute the systems music performance? If yes which amplifier do you recommend to me ?

Yunus

 

[KEW]

The Klipsch RF62ii is an efficient speaker and the Denon AVR-X4500H will drive it as well as any of the integrated amps you listed!
Better, actually, because you can use Audyssey XT32 combined with the D&M app to compensate for room modes below ~300Hz.

 

[PENG]

I think to connect my Klipsch RF62 IIs ( Power Handling 125W RMS / 500W Peak - Sensitivity97dB @ 2.83V / 1m , 8 ohm ) to stereo amp and bound this system to Denon AVR 4500 preouts. Does this attempt contribute the systems music performance? If yes which amplifier do you recommend to me ?

Yunus

Based on specs and measurements I would say no it won't, but if you use the pre-out with either the Marantz or Yamaha you may getting better music performance if you get influenced and you may be be biased to try and want to hear the claimed difference you have read about. In any case, if you are going that route, may as well for a separate power amp, why go half way? The A-S801 is basically a stripped down AVR, but with fewer parts it does have a much cleaner physically layout. Unfortunately some of the same parts used in the signal chain means its performance will still be limited by the same bottlenecks in its AVR cousins, so even in terms of bench measurements, it may be a little better than the RX-V AVRs but won't be enough to result in audible difference anyway.

ASR has recently reviewed a few AVRs so the results are there if you are interested to see. You may be surprised how some of those boutique class AVRs (Arcam, Anthem etc.) as well as some integrated amps/even separate power amps performed, compare to a $1,099 Dennon AVR.

Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

Audio reviews, science and engineering discussions.

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Pogre]

You need to start demoing speakers. My thinking is, if you can afford separate amplification it behooves you to see if that same budget might get you the next step up in speakers. That's where it's at with sound quality. The 4500 is one of the better AVRs out there and is very competent.

Also, I didn't see you mention anything about a subwoofer...

 

[Gmoney]

You need to start demoing speakers. My thinking is, if you can afford separate amplification it behooves you to see if that same budget might get you the next step up in speakers. That's where it's at with sound quality. The 4500 is one of the better AVRs out there and is very competent.

Also, I didn't see you mention anything about a subwoofer...

Was going to jump in on this Thread but Pogre, nailed it.

 

[lovinthehd]

Count me with those that say your avr is sufficient, but if you really want improvement speakers would be the way to go (and/or refine how the speakers work with your room's acoustics)

 

[dolph.inus]

* I didn't use any stereo amp before. What I used before was Pioneer VSX 930 AVR. When comparing two of them, i feel better with Denon. One of the reason for stereo amp choice to play bass and treble manually.
* When chosing a stereo amp for this system how much power will be optimum? Generally the price level i can afford has 90 w 8 ohm.. Denon 4500 has 125w 8 ohm per channel..
* I dont have subwoofer in the system but will add klipsch spl-120 ( 300W/600W , max. 118dB) .
* Do you also prefer to try bi amp option for current Denon 4500 ?

 

[lovinthehd]

You do have bass/treble controls in the Denon (p. 138 of the pdf manual)

Since it takes a doubling of power to gain merely 3dB, may as well make an external amp a significant one....double the Denon at 250 wpc or maybe 300wpc....

Are you in the US? Normally we'd steer you to better subs from SVS, Hsu Research, Rythmik, Power Sound Audio, etc.

Passive bi-amping with an avr is mostly a waste of wire, better just to use a more powerful amp to begin with. Try this article https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring

 

[SimplyEpic]

If I were you especially having the Denon 4500 in your arsenal as well as really efficient speakers in the Klipsch I would look at getting a sub and using some of the built in features of the receiver such as setting the speakers to small in the configuration and then cross over the lower frequencies to the sub (say about 50-80hz). The cross over setting can be tuned to your preference. This will help ease the workload on the main speakers so they can concentrate on the mids and highs and will let a powered sub give you plenty of lows. With the setup you have I bet a SVS-SB3000 sub would liven things right up with the cross over set correctly. That would affect both movie and music performance I would believe.

 

[Pogre]

* I didn't use any stereo amp before. What I used before was Pioneer VSX 930 AVR. When comparing two of them, i feel better with Denon. One of the reason for stereo amp choice to play bass and treble manually.
* When chosing a stereo amp for this system how much power will be optimum? Generally the price level i can afford has 90 w 8 ohm.. Denon 4500 has 125w 8 ohm per channel..
* I dont have subwoofer in the system but will add klipsch spl-120 ( 300W/600W , max. 118dB) .
* Do you also prefer to try bi amp option for current Denon 4500 ?

*You have the ability to tone control with your 4500
*The power supply in the 4500 is more than enough to reach ear bleed levels. Why would you buy an amp that has less power than you already have? That makes no sense.
*A subwoofer will offer way, Way, WAY more improvement to your sound quality than a separate amp. What you're proposing will not translate into any audible improvements.
*Passive bi amping is a waste of time and wire- even if you had monoblocks. It's even less effective with an avr.

***When you do get a sub I would strongly advise shopping elsewhere for it (Hsu, SVS, Rythmik). There are quite a few id sub makers out there who specialize in low frequency reproduction. Klipsch subs, for the most part, are a joke. I would not even consider getting a separate amplifier if 1) I had no subwoofer, and 2) if it didn't at minimum double the power I have now. Even then, doubling your power will only give you 3 more dB to play with.

 

[dolph.inus]

Thanx for your all informations and advices. Subs were in my list and change my mind from klipsch..My first choice will be sub. I am from Turkey.. I can reach SVS options. Dealers already have SB3000 and SB200 Pro..Never heard about HSU and Rytmik. ELAC and Definitive Tech. are also popular here. What parameters are important when chosing subs?

And it was a question for me to look less power stereo amp when having 125 wpc in 4500. Generally spoken is that AVRs dont behave like stereo amps. Thats why I looked for stereo amp. As far as I understand, if powerfull parasound, emotivai yamaha similars are not in the list, i will skip stereo amp option for now.

 

[PENG]

Generally spoken is that AVRs dont behave like stereo amps. Thats why I looked for stereo amp. As far as I understand, if powerfull parasound, emotivai yamaha similars are not in the list, i will skip stereo amp option for now.

Don't behave like stereo amps in what ways? Specifically, your 125 W Denon AVR will likely be at least as powerful, if not more so, than some 125 W stereo amps under 2 channel driven condition, into 8 and 4 ohms. It will also have very low distortions, you can see the measurements in the reviews of its little brother, the AVR-X3600H by ASR, and the AVR-X3300H by Audioholics.com

Denon AVR-X3600H AV Receiver Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon AVR-X3600H 9.2 channel AVR. It was purchased new by a kind member who drop shipped it to me. It costs US $1,099. From outside the AVR-X3600H seems like any other AVR: But the controls feel a lot better than some other AVRs. The...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Denon AVR-X3300W 7.2 Atmos/DTS:X A/V Receiver Review

The Denon AVR-X3300W 7.2CH Atmos/DTS:X networking AV receiver features the latest in HD audio and video processing, music streaming and offers future expandability with solid preamp outputs.

www.audioholics.com

 

[lovinthehd]

Hsu and Rythmik are US based sub specialists, don't think either has international distribution. I've only seen one Elac sub, and I'd definitely go with SVS first. Definitive Technology I wouldn't bother with for subs at all. You can check out data-bass.com for all types of information on subs (as well as many that have been measured), you can also review various subwoofer articles and reviews here on Audioholics....

 

[dolph.inus]

Don't behave like stereo amps in what ways? Specifically, your 125 W Denon AVR will likely be at least as powerful, if not more so, than some 125 W stereo amps under 2 channel driven condition, into 8 and 4 ohms. It will also have very low distortions, you can see the measurements in the reviews of its little brother, the AVR-X3600H by ASR, and the AVR-X3300H by Audioholics.com

I think the characteristics of the amps are different..The sound processing algoritms may differ probably..

 

[lovinthehd]

I think the characteristics of the amps are different..The sound processing algoritms may differ probably..

Sound processing algorithms? What amp characteristics?

 

[Pogre]

I think the characteristics of the amps are different..The sound processing algoritms may differ probably..

You can think that all you want, but it's not true. Stereo is stereo and your 4500 will play in stereo. In fact it will probably do it with less distortion and noise than most stereo amps you'll find. The link Peng posted leads to measurements that may surprise you.

Of your subwoofer options I think SVS makes about as good a subwoofer as you can get. They're not the only ones, but they're in the top of the food chain. The 3000 series and 2000 pro series are both very, very good. I would be looking at the ported versions tho.

I suspect you're assuming sealed sounds better for music, given your perspective on amplification. That's not true either. A well designed ported sub will be just as musical as a sealed sub, with more deep bass output capability. The only reason to pick a sealed sub, imo, would be if you absolutely do not have room for ported.

 

[dolph.inus]

Sound processing algorithms? What amp characteristics?

From written above, an AVR does what a stereo amp does and pluses. In same power of both, stereo amps has great prices. What is the reason ? Why the music enthusiasts focus on stereo amps in order to receivers.? Some extras must be I think..

I started that journey by reading that kinds of readings below.

How to combine stereo and surround sound in one AV system

Combine hi-fi and home cinema in a best-of-both-worlds system

www.whathifi.com

 

[lovinthehd]

From written above, an AVR does what a stereo amp does and pluses. In same power of both, stereo amps has great prices. What is the reason ? Why the music enthusiasts focus on stereo amps in order to receivers.? Some extras must be I think..

I started that journey by reading that kinds of readings below.

How to combine stereo and surround sound in one AV system

Combine hi-fi and home cinema in a best-of-both-worlds system

www.whathifi.com

Great prices? You mean higher prices for equivalent performance? That's mostly due to economics, economies of scale. Some people have odd audio ideas and prejudices, the 2ch crowd is kinda weird in a lot of respects. I find whathifi to be a lot of nonsense for the most part.

 

[Pogre]

From written above, an AVR does what a stereo amp does and pluses. In same power of both, stereo amps has great prices. What is the reason ? Why the music enthusiasts focus on stereo amps in order to receivers.? Some extras must be I think..

I started that journey by reading that kinds of readings below.

How to combine stereo and surround sound in one AV system

Combine hi-fi and home cinema in a best-of-both-worlds system

www.whathifi.com

That's all mostly myth. Did you look at the measurements for the avr above? It ranked higher than almost everything Amirm has measured, and he can be brutal. You have one of those avrs. This stereo receiver thing is just plain false and what hifi should be ashamed of themselves for promoting it. They're as goofy as the audiophool who came up with it.