The Audyssey MultEQ Editor app users thread (with facts and tips)

[PENG]

There are a few such threads already, but no users/or owners thread that I am aware of, so I thought it may be better to have one for the users. This thread is for MultEQ users in general, so it is not limited to Denon and Marantz product owners in case users of other brands may be interested in it enough to consider switching in their next purchase. Emphasis is given on providing, sharing tips and even target curves. Actual FR graphs using REW/Umik-1 mic and/or Omni mic etc., are welcome, hope to see as many as possible.

I've gathered some facts and tips from my search and found, and will post some of them later.

Below is just to start, the list will grow for sure, the information under the heading MultEQ filters are mainly from the AH interview with the founder.

Audyssey MultEQ filters:

- XT32 generates filters that have 32 times the resolution of XT for the satellites and 4 times for the subwoofer.
- It uses Finite Impulse Response (FIR) filters. Note: PEQs are IIR type filters.
- In AVR systems, the filters are set to +9 dB max boost and +20 dB max cut.
- Audyssey MultEQ room correction algorithm relies on the analysis of measurements in the time domain and the effects of sound reflections from walls and other room surfaces.
- MultEQ is capable of applying correction from 10 Hz to 24 kHz. However, during the measurement process it first determines the roll off points of each speaker and subwoofer, and limits the correction below that point.
- According to Chris Kyriakakis, "We offer MultEQ at 96 kHz and even higher if needed so that the content can be processed without downsampling, even though the MultEQ filters above 24-30 kHz (adjustable) would be doing absolutely nothing. The issue is that doubling the sampling rate also doubles (roughly) the processing requirements needed. This is true for any kind of digital processing not just MultEQ. The AVR makers would have to add significant cost for more DSP processing and they have chosen not to do that. So they decided to use Audyssey at a max of 48 kHz. From an acoustic point of view this makes perfect sense for the reason I explained above.

The App:

- The Editor App is compatible with D+M 2016 and newer models.
- Main features are: can customize target curves, save them and share them with others, option to remove MRC (Mid range compensation), limit the range of frequencies that the EQ is applied to.
- Customization only affects the Reference target curve, except the MRC removal will affect the Flat curve as well.
- Before version updated 1.4.1, there was a 20 Hz subwoofer protection roll off.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Nice peng!

 

[DJ7675]

@PENG Very nice idea for a post. In particular, a nice place for info regarding room curves, using the app, best practices, and in particular before/after measurements. In my experience, Audyssey is very good at doing "what it is told to do". The key is either providing it a good room curve, or limiting what it does, depending on how your speakers measure in a given room.

 

[shkumar4963]

There are a few such threads already, but no users/or owners thread that I am aware of, so I thought it may be better to have one for the users. This thread is for MultEQ users in general, so it is not limited to Denon and Marantz product owners in case users of other brands may be interested in it enough to consider switching in their next purchase. Emphasis is given on providing, sharing tips and even target curves. Actual FR graphs using REW/Umik-1 mic and/or Omni mic etc., are welcome, hope to see as many as possible.

I've gathered some facts and tips from my search and found, and will post some of them later.

Below is just to start, the list will grow for sure, the information under the heading MultEQ filters are mainly from the AH interview with the founder.

Audyssey MultEQ filters:

- XT32 generates filters that have 32 times the resolution of XT for the satellites and 4 times for the subwoofer.
- It uses Finite Impulse Response (FIR) filters. Note: PEQs are IIR type filters.
- In AVR systems, the filters are set to +9 dB max boost and +20 dB max cut.
- Audyssey MultEQ room correction algorithm relies on the analysis of measurements in the time domain and the effects of sound reflections from walls and other room surfaces.
- MultEQ is capable of applying correction from 10 Hz to 24 kHz. However, during the measurement process it first determines the roll off points of each speaker and subwoofer, and limits the correction below that point.
- According to Chris Kyriakakis, "We offer MultEQ at 96 kHz and even higher if needed so that the content can be processed without downsampling, even though the MultEQ filters above 24-30 kHz (adjustable) would be doing absolutely nothing. The issue is that doubling the sampling rate also doubles (roughly) the processing requirements needed. This is true for any kind of digital processing not just MultEQ. The AVR makers would have to add significant cost for more DSP processing and they have chosen not to do that. So they decided to use Audyssey at a max of 48 kHz. From an acoustic point of view this makes perfect sense for the reason I explained above.

The App:

- The Editor App is compatible with D+M 2016 and newer models.
- Main features are: can customize target curves, save them and share them with others, option to remove MRC (Mid range compensation), limit the range of frequencies that the EQ is applied to.
- Customization only affects the Reference target curve, except the MRC removal will affect the Flat curve as well.
- Before version updated 1.4.1, there was a 20 Hz subwoofer protection roll off.

Thank you @PENG

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[PENG]

I re-ran Audyssey with the App a couple days ago after removing one piece of furniture and was surprised to see the 20 Hz roll off. Then yesterday I switched both SVS subs to 16 Hz tune and the roll off's gone. This is the first REW plot right after the new curve was sent to the AVR. With 1/12 smoothing, that's about +/- 2.42 dB from 15 to 150 Hz. Also it was a quick trial so I didn't bother switching off HVAC and there were other random background noises going on so I loaded the old curve back for now. Seeing the encouraging results, I do plan on doing a proper run using all 8 positions, and 16 Hz tunes to make sure I don't get the roll off.

 

[DJ7675]

I re-ran Audyssey with the App a couple days ago after removing one piece of furniture and was surprised to see the 20 Hz roll off. Then yesterday I switched both SVS subs to 16 Hz tune and the roll off's gone. This is the first REW plot right after the new curve was sent to the AVR. With 1/12 smoothing, that's about +/- 2.42 dB from 15 to 150 Hz. Also it was a quick trial so I didn't bother switching off HVAC and there were other random background noises going on so I loaded the old curve back for now. Seeing the encouraging results, I do plan on doing a proper run using all 8 positions, and 16 Hz tunes to make sure I don't get the roll off.


View attachment 35736

Possible to see the Audyssey off to compare as well. Also is it possible to see a screenshot from your audyseey app to show the curve you are using on your sub? Or is the sub using a flat curve?

 

[PENG]

Possible to see the Audyssey off to compare as well. Also is it possible to see a screenshot from your audyseey app to show the curve you are using on your sub? Or is the sub using a flat curve?

Yes as I mentioned the one I posted was based on the subwoofer default curve that is flat. It has always been flat before I moved the furniture, then it changed to a roll off but back to flat again if I change the subwoofer tune to 16 Hz instead of 20 Hz.

It was just a quick and dirty trial so I forgot to run a "off" graph at that exact moment but off is off so I just plot one for you to compare, volume in the same position if I remember right. By the way, these were for Left+Right+Subs. If plotted for the individual speakers they looked even worse. If ADTG is in the room he would likely still prefer the Audyssey Off sound.

 

[Auditor55]

I re-ran Audyssey with the App a couple days ago after removing one piece of furniture and was surprised to see the 20 Hz roll off. Then yesterday I switched both SVS subs to 16 Hz tune and the roll off's gone. This is the first REW plot right after the new curve was sent to the AVR. With 1/12 smoothing, that's about +/- 2.42 dB from 15 to 150 Hz. Also it was a quick trial so I didn't bother switching off HVAC and there were other random background noises going on so I loaded the old curve back for now. Seeing the encouraging results, I do plan on doing a proper run using all 8 positions, and 16 Hz tunes to make sure I don't get the roll off.


View attachment 35736

How many subs are you running?

 

[Pogre]

Peng, this is an awesome idea! You knew I'd show for sure! I wasn't really planning to, but now I'm kind of motivated to get the stuff out this weekend and add to this thread now that I had a successful run with the editor app myself.

I don't have much for measurements that include app adjustments but you can bet there will be! I think this is a great way to aggregate user information because there isn't a lot out there. It was 2 years before I realized it only affected the reference setting!

 

[PENG]

How many subs are you running?

Five total but only two used for those measurements. The other 3 are used with the surround channels, its a weird way..I know..

 

[PENG]

Peng, this is an awesome idea! You knew I'd show for sure! I wasn't really planning to, but now I'm kind of motivated to get the stuff out this weekend and add to this thread now that I had a successful run with the editor app myself.

I don't have much for measurements that include app adjustments but you can bet there will be! I think this is a great way to aggregate user information because there isn't a lot out there. It was 2 years before I realized it only affected the reference setting!

I can tell you the App does work on the target curve, but don't do anything unless you have time, lots of it. It is extremely difficult to draw the curve with fat fingers or even skinny touch pens. Someone said Bluetooth mouse would work. Until I can get one of those, I need to spend hours to get even a slightly improvement using the App.

It's really all academic because even without using the App to shape the curve, I can get +/- 2.4 dB (1/12 smoothing (otherwise about +/- 3 to 4 dB) 15 to 150 Hz anyway. Only crazy people like me (or may be you too I guess) would still want to get it to +/- 2 dB with no smoothing. As soon I get there, I would create another copy with the often suggested gradual slop up to 15 Hz.

I hope we can share our target curves, eventually..

 

[DJ7675]

I can tell you the App does work on the target curve, but don't do anything unless you have time, lots of it. It is extremely difficult to draw the curve with fat fingers or even skinny touch pens. Someone said Bluetooth mouse would work. Until I can get one of those, I need to spend hours to get even a slightly improvement using the App.

A user on AVSforum created a useful app Called ratbuddyssey. LINK
Makes it easy to enter exact points. After you do a measurement in the app you save it to dropbox, open it in the pc app, add your points in your curve, save it back tothe cloud, open it from the cloud it the audyssey app, then send it to the receiver (like you normally would).

 

[PENG]

A user on AVSforum created a useful app Called ratbuddyssey. LINK
Makes it easy to enter exact points. After you do a measurement in the app you save it to dropbox, open it in the pc app, add your points in your curve, save it back tothe cloud, open it from the cloud it the audyssey app, then send it to the receiver (like you normally would).

Yes, that was one of my search and found pieces too lol.. but I have collected so much info in the last couple of days it will take some time to digest most of them. There was a better one mentioned, its a simulator but the poster said it worked on win7 but no win10..yet anyway. Chris K was even interested and want to be kept posted.

I also found one that mentioned a trick to get a flat subwoofer target, that is with no 20 Hz roll off. I wouldn't recommend that one because if Audyssey figured it need a roll off, why force it and risk damaging the sub or at least incur excessive distortions.

It was frustrating when I ended up with the roll off curve because it would be very difficult to draw a slope up curve if it has a roll off to begin with, but much easier it you start from flat. You can see that Amir was able to make a pretty gradual slope.

 

[Pogre]

A user on AVSforum created a useful app Called ratbuddyssey. LINK
Makes it easy to enter exact points. After you do a measurement in the app you save it to dropbox, open it in the pc app, add your points in your curve, save it back tothe cloud, open it from the cloud it the audyssey app, then send it to the receiver (like you normally would).

Ratbuddyssey just recently made it onto my radar too, but I don't know anything about it. In fact you just told me way more than I knew 5 minutes ago, lol.

It looks like one of those things that could be prone to bugs, but if it works as advertised could come in really handy! Plotting tight adjustments is not easy to do with the stock editor.

 

[shkumar4963]

I can tell you the App does work on the target curve, but don't do anything unless you have time, lots of it. It is extremely difficult to draw the curve with fat fingers or even skinny touch pens. Someone said Bluetooth mouse would work. Until I can get one of those, I need to spend hours to get even a slightly improvement using the App.

It's really all academic because even without using the App to shape the curve, I can get +/- 2.4 dB (1/12 smoothing (otherwise about +/- 3 to 4 dB) 15 to 150 Hz anyway. Only crazy people like me (or may be you too I guess) would still want to get it to +/- 2 dB with no smoothing. As soon I get there, I would create another copy with the often suggested gradual slop up to 15 Hz.

I hope we can share our target curves, eventually..

I am told that the multi Eq app can be run from a PC with much better control. I have the instructions somewhere.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[Pogre]

A user on AVSforum created a useful app Called ratbuddyssey. LINK
Makes it easy to enter exact points. After you do a measurement in the app you save it to dropbox, open it in the pc app, add your points in your curve, save it back tothe cloud, open it from the cloud it the audyssey app, then send it to the receiver (like you normally would).

I am told that the multi Eq app can be run from a PC with much better control. I have the instructions somewhere.

Talking about the same thing perhaps? With tighter control it could be a MiniDSP killer for me!

 

[DJ7675]

Ratbuddyssey just recently made it onto my radar too, but I don't know anything about it. In fact you just told me way more than I knew 5 minutes ago, lol.

It looks like one of those things that could be prone to bugs, but if it works as advertised could come in really handy! Plotting tight adjustments is not easy to do with the stock editor.

I have used it quite a bit and It works very well. No bugs I have noticed so far.

 

[PENG]

I have used it quite a bit and It works very well. No bugs I have noticed so far.

Would you post your subwoofer target curve, the edited one?

 

[felipe]

I picked up the 3600h on sale back in Feb. I‘ve never used Audyssey before, let alone the App (only used Onkyo’s AccuEq Advance). I’ll admit, the Standing Wave EQ w/ the AccuEQ did good in my particular setup. However, using the MultiEQ App did a noticably better job. I like the adjustments you are able make (and how the sub outs on the 3600h are discrete). After watching the youtube video(s) on Room EQ per Gene and Matt, I limited the filter range to 500hz and 350hz (depending on the “Before” FR per channel measured by Audyssey) and turned off the midrange compensation for all channels. Bass is much improved now .

 

[PENG]

I picked up the 3600h on sale back in Feb. I‘ve never used Audyssey before, let alone the App (only used Onkyo’s AccuEq Advance). I’ll admit, the Standing Wave EQ w/ the AccuEQ did good in my particular setup. However, using the MultiEQ App did a noticably better job. I like the adjustments you are able make (and how the sub outs on the 3600h are discrete). After watching the youtube video(s) on Room EQ per Gene and Matt, I limited the filter range to 500hz and 350hz (depending on the “Before” FR per channel measured by Audyssey) and turned off the midrange compensation for all channels. Bass is much improved now .

Good thing you got at sale price, now that we are in the midst of the virus thing I don't think you will see any of those on sale any time soon.

I watched that video too and then I plotted a bunch of graphs to get that listening window response that Matthew was talking about. No matter how hard I tried I couldn't see how Audyssey messed things up off axis or 6 to 8 inches, even 12 inches from the MMP. I wonder if he's using XT instead of XT32. As far as I can see, Audyssey just work, plain and simple, for the range 20-200 Hz anyway. Please share some graphs if you have them.