Both YPAO and MCACC are ruining my mids.

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I’ve seen that both YPAO and Audyssey can smooth frequency responses in my rooms.

But a smoother in-room response doesn’t guarantee “better” sound quality. I have never heard any room EQ improve sound quality.
You mean REQ software rather than using parts of it manually? :)
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
I’ve seen that both YPAO and Audyssey can smooth frequency responses in my rooms.

But a smoother in-room response doesn’t guarantee “better” sound quality. I have never heard any room EQ improve sound quality.
Ahem.... Deq...cough...spit...cough...sputter...Deq
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
You and I would. But the guys who’s buying that gear is also drinking the kool-aid. So he does GAF about measurements, he only cares that Paul said it’s sounds silky, and the AQ cables combine the silk with the milk for a velveteen, get down of crazy baby makin potpourri of musical extacy..... baby......
(Read in your best 70’s funkadelic voice)
As always, there are exceptions, some seemed immune. One guy posted at ASR that he returned the PA Audio Stellar Gain cell due to poor sound quality, that's before he read ASR's measurements.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Amir and his gang are not exactly the wisest bunch (read a few books and capable of producing graphs for sure though). Many subtle things and nuances in audio and how the the human ear/central nervous system perceives it cannot be measured ( basic limitation of instrumentation). But, I'm sure Amir will claim that his graph is capable of capturing everything.

However, i wouldn't accept the results of any blind test unless the test rat is also tied up to a polygraph (lie detector) simultaneously. Otherwise, audiophool rats, brand name fanboys, etc will lie endlessly during these tests. Bwaaahahaha
If you take a good look of everything else there, aside from the measurements, you may be surprised how much he knows.:D To me, he knows his stuff, but obviously there are things he doesn't know well, that you and I may, there's only so many hours for learning in a life time..
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
You mean REQ software rather than using parts of it manually? :)
Yes. I mean just auto Room EQ software. No manual EQ.

YPAO Flat curve looks better than THROUGH mode. Just like Audyssey curve looks better than Direct. But in both cases, I always preferred the sound of no Auto Room SQ.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Yes. I mean just auto Room EQ software. No manual EQ.

YPAO Flat curve looks better than THROUGH mode. Just like Audyssey curve looks better than Direct. But in both cases, I always preferred the sound of no Auto Room SQ.
Just yanking your chain a bit. :) EQ is eq, whether you achieve it automatically or manually or have very specific preferences on how to apply it.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
The point "..there are things that cannot be measure..", is of course a valid point by itself, but it is also often irrelevant when apply to comparing audio gear. For example, typical bench test measurements of amps and DACs would include THD, Noise, Channel balance, Crosstalk, IMD, linearity, Frequency response among others. All of those are important to measure and each are well defined and understood by most. The PSA Stellar gain cell measured flat in FR so there should be no artificial boost and attenuation of any particular frequency within the audible range, so that one is out of the way, what's left then..

Where it did poorly was in THD+N (at high output level) and linearity (at low level) so if one listens at not too loud (such as ref) level, it should still be consider accurate enough for it it not to be picked out easily in a properly conducted AB comparison listening session.

Distortion is just that, it has a literal meaning. So if the gear does not distort the input signal, it literally means what goes in is what comes out, that is, the output may take a different form (e.g. digital t analog, and/or at different level, but the bottom line is, the original music waveform is preserved. It may be debatable regarding what is the threshold of audibility, is it 0.1%, o.05%, or 0.01%? 0.1% seems widely used, Gene would probably use that number, while others may say 0.05 or 0.01%. I would therefore argue assume it is not debatable that 0.005% should be below the threshold regardless of the harmonic contents. It doesn't matter if the harmonics are even or odd, if the total is at 0.005%! If it is 5% or even 2% then for sure it matters but while at 1% it may still be audible it may not be "easy" to tell, or at least a debatable point.

I don't doubt what Leemix heard/experienced, but it was so easy, then I have to wonder whether it was a truly apple to apple AB comparison. One is a DAC and the other is a prepro, so it takes some effort to ensure the comparison of the two as a DAC is valid one.
 
pcosmic

pcosmic

Senior Audioholic
Whatever you think about Amirm and his commentary, his measurements are accurate and show performance objectively.

You don't need a lie detector. If set up properly the rat can't have any better than a 50/50 chance of guessing which is which.
The rat may have realized, a priori, that its $$$$ equipment actually sounds worse than a lotta stuff out there and gotten bitter. It may have lived with buyer's remorse for a while when it shows up for the test.

I mean, If the rat's $$$$ equipment is not in the test and it's not personally invested in it, why would it even bother to show up for the test ( just 2 compare other products it doesn't own or give a rat's ass about? Not likely) It is showing up only because it knows its equipment is being compared to other stuff out there. Now, the sound signature of the $$$$ snake oil it owns may be very familiar to the rat. It could deliberately lie and say the exact opposite just to fck up your test. Bitter rats want every hard working American to lose their cash to snake oil as well and share its misery. Hence, Polygraph is mandatory at every step!

P.S
Either way, what harm can a polygraph do in any blind test? It can't do any harm. In fact, it would provide wayyy more confidence to the test. It will add to the wholesomeness (the kind of wholesomeness required to catch a rat).
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
I definitely believe in not messing around with EQ above 200Hz and just manually EQ the bass below 200Hz to our liking.
Maybe nowadays...
FWIW, Deq also boosts the top end. But I know you’re beyond that these days. Recovered and all...
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
The rat may have realized, a priori, that its $$$$ equipment actually sounds worse than a lotta stuff out there and gotten bitter. It may have lived with buyer's remorse for a while when it shows up for the test.

I mean, If the rat's $$$$ equipment is not in the test and it's not personally invested in it, why would it even bother to show up for the test ( just 2 compare other products it doesn't own or give a rat's ass about? Not likely) It is showing up only because it knows its equipment is being compared to other stuff out there. Now, the sound signature of the $$$$ snake oil it owns may be very familiar to the rat. It could deliberately lie and say the exact opposite just to fck up your test. Bitter rats want every hard working American to lose their cash to snake oil as well and share its misery. Hence, Polygraph is mandatory at every step!

P.S
Either way, what harm can a polygraph do in any blind test? It can't do any harm. In fact, it would provide wayyy more confidence to the test. It will add to the wholesomeness (the kind of wholesomeness required to catch a rat).
No harm, but no use either. I don't think you understand what a DBT is. Like I said, set up properly the subject would have no clue if it was their own equipment or something else. The B in DBT stands for "blind". Meaning the subject would not know which is which and would have to rely on their ears to tell the difference.

P.S. I maintain there won't be any difference so even in your scenario they'd still be guessing. There's a 50/50 chance they can even pick out their own equipment. Wouldn't even need a lie detector.
 
pcosmic

pcosmic

Senior Audioholic
As always, there are exceptions, some seemed immune. Our at ASR one guy posted he returned the Stellar Gain cell due to poor sound quality, that's before he read ASR's measurements.
Generally, the best deals in DACs these days is Chi-fi, i think. Topping D90 recently came out with a MQA version and it has rave reviews. Denafrips Ares, Denafrips Venus, etc seem to get rave reviews as well. I have not got a chance to audit any (i never buy anything without hearing it). IF i get a chance to audit one of these Chi-fi DACs and it sounds better "to my ears" than my PS Audio DAC, i will sell it.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Generally, the best deals in DACs these days is Chi-fi, i think. Topping D90 recently came out with a MQA version and it has rave reviews. Denafrips Ares, Denafrips Venus, etc seem to get rave reviews as well. I have not got a chance to audit any (i never buy anything without hearing it). IF i get a chance to audit one of these Chi-fi DACs and it sounds better "to my ears" than my PS Audio DAC, i will sell it.
As opposed to briti-fi or ameri-fi?
 
pcosmic

pcosmic

Senior Audioholic
As opposed to briti-fi or ameri-fi?
I'm just being realistic here. I am in a relatively higher income bracket. But, a lot of middleclass income guys (with families, etc) that i know who really love music cannot afford true Ameri-fi or Euro-fi. I wish they could get a taste of true hi-fi too and i think Chi-fi is within their reach. As is, we're a dying breed. Too few people in it or those who appreciate good sound can't afford it.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I'm just being realistic here. I am in a relatively higher income bracket. But, a lot of middleclass income guys (with families, etc) that i know who really love music cannot afford true Ameri-fi or Euro-fi. I wish they could get a taste of true hi-fi too and i think Chi-fi is within their reach. As is, we're a dying breed. Too few people in it or those who appreciate good sound can't afford it.
Just sounds dumb....like equating your buying power with good audio reproduction gear cost.
 
pcosmic

pcosmic

Senior Audioholic
Just sounds dumb....like equating your buying power with good audio reproduction gear cost.
Ah, here we go again, an exceptional patriot. "Chifi sucks". There you go, i said it just for you. Now go calm your titties
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Maybe nowadays...
FWIW, Deq also boosts the top end. But I know you’re beyond that these days. Recovered and all...
Back when I was using DEQ for a long time, I never thought it boosted the high treble. Or at least not that I could actually hear with my hearing acuity, which is probably 30Hz-15kHz.

But the bass boost was easily detectable.
 
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