Dual Klipsch R-115SW vs SVS SB-16 Ultra

William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
There is no way that the Klipsch subs have more low end the the PB-3000s. If anyone measured otherwise, they didn't measure these subs correctly.
Agreed. Youthman is a good dude, but his science prowess might not be the bestest. Lol
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic General
My guess is because he has money. And the options are surely out there.
I think the PB-3000 was recommended here, however is it truly an upgrade to what he already has? I do believe there's are points of diminishing returns in audio gear including subs.
 
I

IMWhizzle

Audioholic Intern
I'm not really sure I understand why you want to upgrade.
I just want the best sound available. Let’s face it, the Klipsch subs are not the best out there. I’ve had several failed amps on both and are not reliable. Klipsch sent me two SPL-150 amps to replace the old ones and now they are working fine. I don’t know for how long.

I am looking at the SVS subs because they have been proven to be more reliable, have more power and they can be controlled with an app. If the app was not important to me I would have looked into other options.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
I just want the best sound available. Let’s face it, the Klipsch subs are not the best out there. I’ve had several failed amps on both and are not reliable. Klipsch sent me two SPL-150 amps to replace the old ones and now they are working fine. I don’t know for how long.

I am looking at the SVS subs because they have been proven to be more reliable, have more power and they can be controlled with an app. If the app was not important to me I would have looked into other options.
I think for straight value there are other options. But for the footprint, and control you’re after combined with simplicity, IMO the pc4000 wins.
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic General
I just want the best sound available. Let’s face it, the Klipsch subs are not the best out there. I’ve had several failed amps on both and are not reliable. Klipsch sent me two SPL-150 amps to replace the old ones and now they are working fine. I don’t know for how long.

I am looking at the SVS subs because they have been proven to be more reliable, have more power and they can be controlled with an app. If the app was not important to me I would have looked into other options.
SVS subs fail as well, its just that SVS customer support is second to none, so in case of a failure you can have some peace of mind knowing they will take care of you. The SVS app is cool, you can tweak your sub without having to manually adjust the settings on the actual sub. Thanks to SVS its more to a sub than just high low frequency SPL's.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
First of all, the PB-3000 is tuned more deeply than the Klipsch sub. The SVS subs have very aggressive high-pass filters that limit what they can do below port tuning. Klipsch allows their sub to have output below port tuning- it's hard for them not to since they use an analog amp- but the output below port tuning is largely gibberish and distortion. The stuff it is doing below port tuning doesn't matter. It will sound terrible in that range and shouldn't be considered usable output because it wouldn't be close to being clean.

Second, that sweep is taken at a nominal output level. I would bet that is the maximum output for deep frequencies for the Klipsch sub, even though the input signal wasn't very high. Turn up the gain in that system and the deep bass output for the PB-3000 will just keep going up, but not so for the Klipsch. It will compress deep bass output much more rapidly. Take a look at the CEA-2010 numbers for 20 Hz: Klipsch at 99.7 dB, PB-3000 at 108.3 dB. That is a 3X difference in deep bass output capability!

Perceptually the PB-3000 will sound a lot more deep bass heavy than the Klipsch sub. Turn on a movie with lots of deep bass, like the pods rising scene from War of the Worlds, and the PB-3000 will add a lot more weight to that scene. I didn't watch Youthman's entire video, so I don't know if he added that kind of context, but context matters here. I suppose you could argue that the Klipsch subs have more extension, but only on a technicality, not for practical purposes. The question of extension is not even close in reality.
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic General
First of all, the PB-3000 is tuned more deeply than the Klipsch sub. The SVS subs have very aggressive high-pass filters that limit what they can do below port tuning. Klipsch allows their sub to have output below port tuning- it's hard for them not to since they use an analog amp- but the output below port tuning is largely gibberish and distortion. The stuff it is doing below port tuning doesn't matter. It will sound terrible in that range and shouldn't be considered usable output because it wouldn't be close to being clean.

Second, that sweep is taken at a nominal output level. I would bet that is the maximum output for deep frequencies for the Klipsch sub, even though the input signal wasn't very high. Turn up the gain in that system and the deep bass output for the PB-3000 will just keep going up, but not so for the Klipsch. It will compress deep bass output much more rapidly. Take a look at the CEA-2010 numbers for 20 Hz: Klipsch at 99.7 dB, PB-3000 at 108.3 dB. That is a 3X difference in deep bass output capability!

Perceptually the PB-3000 will sound a lot more deep bass heavy than the Klipsch sub. Turn on a movie with lots of deep bass, like the pods rising scene from War of the Worlds, and the PB-3000 will add a lot more weight to that scene. I didn't watch Youthman's entire video, so I don't know if he added that kind of context, but context matters here. I suppose you could argue that the Klipsch subs have more extension, but only on a technicality, not for practical purposes. The question of extension is not even close in reality.
I think when people make such videos and conduct such comparisons, like Youthman's, should add that context otherwise such comparison could be misleading.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Oh come on, the video was on the internet, it must be true :)
 
ellisr63

ellisr63

Full Audioholic
I wish SVS would make the PC versions without a cloth wrap. As much as they are a great space saving option they scream "cat scratching post" everytime I look at them. A few plucks and runs to that fabric and it would look pretty sucky in no time.
Looks better than a painted cardboard sono tube I suppose.
Or maybe even wood veneer.

Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk
 
ellisr63

ellisr63

Full Audioholic
Thanks you for the tip. The PC is indeed a ported version, but isn’t that subwoofer downfiring? I just looked at a YouTube review of it and I saw that the speaker cone is at the bottom (13,5 inch?) and the ports are on top of it. Also prone to scuffing I noticed, depends on the volume. The good thing about it is the form factor though. I am looking into SVS, the companion iPhone app is interesting to me.

The thing is, all those subs have smaller woofers than my current ones. Won’t that be a step backwards?
A friend of mine had a round sub that was about 6' tall and had a 18" woofer in it.

Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk
 
K

Kleinst

Senior Audioholic
I have two 115sw in different rooms but they put out a lot of bass and I like them but I’m not sure it’s very accurate. When I got a SVS PB2000 I was very disappointed. but you might end up having to get used to the difference if you go away from the 115. Recently picked up a rythmik used however and that is one i‘d recommend. It’s nice.

But don’t be surprised if you spend a lot of money and feel that the bass is just barely better than your dual 115s. thats the risk
 
I

IMWhizzle

Audioholic Intern
I have two 115sw in different rooms but they put out a lot of bass and I like them but I’m not sure it’s very accurate. When I got a SVS PB2000 I was very disappointed. but you might end up having to get used to the difference if you go away from the 115. Recently picked up a rythmik used however and that is one i‘d recommend. It’s nice.

But don’t be surprised if you spend a lot of money and feel that the bass is just barely better than your dual 115s. thats the risk
Thank you for sharing your experience.

I have decided to keep them and not waste a lot money until they don’t work anymore. As told before, Klipsch sent me two new SPL-150 amps which are refined and redesigned to improve stability and reliability compared to the original amps. Very nice of Klipsch. Very good customer service.

A couple days ago I have dialed in the current subs again to get the best response in my room using placement, Audyssey sub eq ht, REW and the sub distance tweak and creating a beautiful house curve. The response is so much better.
 
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