Anthem MRC 1120 or NAD T785 MDC upgrade?

[jkp401]

I have a NAD T785 equipped with the AM200 and VM200 MDC cards. I would like to upgrade my receiver and have the option of installing the NAD MDC VM300 and AM230 cards (for increased system compatibiity). Once the price of those two upgrade cards is factored in, the option of a new receiver enters the equation. I thoroughly enjoy the NAD sound and sound quality is paramount; both for music and movies. I am leaning toward replacement of my NAD with the Anthem MRC 1120. Am I making a mistake? Should I upgrade the NAD cards instead? How about Marantz? I am not a bells and whistles guy. I prefer quality construction, quality components, musicality and reliability. Thoughts?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think when it comes to “sound quality“ (SQ), a lot of it is based on hearsay and a million SQ opinions. The more expensive the components, the better the SQ opinion.

Based on my experience of owning $5,500 AVR and $7500 Pre-pro and Amplifier separates, I don’t think you will hear a difference in SQ among Anthem, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, NAD, etc., in Direct modes (when you bypass EQ and DSP to use minimal or no processing).

So it ultimately comes down to things like reliability history, compatibility, WiFi apps and streaming, customer and warranty service.

Just because a component costs a lot more or is perceived as being more “audiophile“ does not guarantee better quality and especially not reliability.

So I recommend the Yamaha RX-A3080 if you are looking for an AVR.

If you are looking for separates, then I recommend the Yamaha CX-A5100 and MX-A5200 or another amp (like ATI, Monolith, Outlaw).

 

[jkp401]

I think when it comes to “sound quality“ (SQ), a lot of it is based on hearsay and a million SQ opinions. The more expensive the components, the better the SQ opinion.

Based on my experience of owning $5,500 AVR and $7500 Pre-pro and Amplifier separates, I don’t think you will hear a difference in SQ among Anthem, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, NAD, etc., in Direct modes (when you bypass EQ and DSP to use minimal or no processing).

So it ultimately comes down to things like reliability history, compatibility, WiFi apps and streaming, customer and warranty service.

Just because a component costs a lot more or is perceived as being more “audiophile“ does not guarantee better quality and especially not reliability.

So I recommend the Yamaha RX-A3080 if you are looking for an AVR.

If you are looking for separates, then I recommend the Yamaha CX-A5100 and MX-A5200 or another amp (like ATI, Monolith, Outlaw).

Thank you for taking the time to reply and also for your candor. Your view is insightful, objective and helpful considering the mine field of advertising plaguing a substantial purchase. May I ask. Having placed all the manufacturers at the same performance level, why has Yamaha tipped your scales in their favor?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thank you for taking the time to reply and also for your candor. Your view is insightful, objective and helpful considering the mine field of advertising plaguing a substantial purchase. May I ask. Having placed all the manufacturers at the same performance level, why has Yamaha tipped your scales in their favor?

As we all know, we base our purchasing decisions on our own experiences as well as our friends'.

And how we feel today may not be the same as a few years ago or a few years from now.

1. Currently, it seems Yamaha might be the most reliable major big brands (Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, Pioneer, Integra, Anthem, Sony, etc.).

2. Yamaha also appears to be the only major big brand to extensively tests for HDMI compatibility.

@M Code might elaborate on Reliability and Compatibililty.

3. The Yamaha WiFi remote app and WiFi music streaming app (MusicCast) is the best I've ever seen compared to all the other brands.

4. Service and Warranty. I think Yamaha's customer service is better than the other brands. For warranty, usually if you have a problem with your electronics, you look for Authorized Repair shops near you. For example, for Denon/Marantz, there are 20 authorized centers listed in the USA (some are closed now because of COVID19). But if there is not local center, then you have to ship to Panurgy in NJ. Or if the local shops cannot repair your Denon/Marantz, then they also have to ship to Panurgy. But Denon/Marantz will not pay for shipping to Panurgy. The customers have to pay for shipping to Panurgy even under warranty. I'm not sure if the local shops will ship to Panurgy for free or will make you pay. But the DM websites say the customers are responsible for shipping to Panurgy.

In contrast, Yamaha will pay shipping BOTH WAYS for both brand new and refurbished components.

5. I believe M Code also mentioned that Yamaha keeps everything or most things In-House, instead of Out-Sourcing to other companies. Other brands will out-source most things.


Of course, like all brands, there are pros and cons depending on what's important to you.

1. If you MUST have a certain Auto Room EQ (Anthem ARC, DM Audyssey, Dirac, Trinnov, etc.), then you should go with the brands that have these features. Yamaha has YPAO 64-bit, but I think some people consider this inferior to Audyssey and other auto room EQ. I don't care about ANY auto room EQ. I only care about MANUAL Parametric EQ (PEQ), and Yamaha has a 7-band manual PEQ for each speaker, which is great for me. So if you don't care about Auto Room EQ, then it is not a factor.

2. Downsampling of music files when using Auto EQ. Most brands (Anthem, Denon, Marantz, etc.) will Downsample music files to 48kHz. But Yamaha will not downsample and keep at full 192kHz. I don't care about this, but some people do care about it.

3. Pure Direct/Direct Mode. Some people want Direct Mode, but also want to use their Subwoofers in Direct Mode. You can do with Denon/Marantz, but you cannot do this with Yamaha. With Yamaha, using Direct Mode will not allow the use of Subwoofers at all. So Yamaha' Direct Mode forces you to use FULL RANGE Large towers. I don't think there is a difference in SQ between Pure Direct vs Stereo or Straight Mode.

Since none of these "cons" affect me and the SQ is second to none, my main focus is on Reliability, Compatibility, WiFi Remote Apps (very important to me since my components are in a closet) and WiFi Music Streaming (MusicCast). I love Yamaha MusicCast. It is so easy for me and works 100% for me.

But again, this is the CURRENT state. Things may change in the future.

 

[DJ7675]

Lots of great points from @AcuDefTechGuy. I would add I think it comes down to amp quality, dac quality, and if you use EQ and what method of EQ each has. If you prefer to measure and use manual EQ, I think Yamaha would make a great choice. If you prefer automated eq, I would lean towards Denon for Audyssey XT32 (with the use of the app). Also, if you use multiple subwoofers, Audyssey's subht works really well to properly integrate multiple subs. I would lean towards a Denon X3600 (or X3500 which can be had for $500). Below are bench test of the x3600h and the yamaha a1080. I have an x3500 in my living room and enjoy it and an x8500 in our theater and really like it as well. Also linked below is the measurements for the NAD T758 (which I had). It measures pretty poorly in particular if you like to listen at higher volumes. Poor amp and DAC measurements, but Dirac works well. I would be interested in how the T778 measures from NAD but it hasn't been tested anywhere yet that I know of. YMMV.

Denon AVR-X3600H AV Receiver Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon AVR-X3600H 9.2 channel AVR. It was purchased new by a kind member who drop shipped it to me. It costs US $1,099. From outside the AVR-X3600H seems like any other AVR: But the controls feel a lot better than some other AVRs. The...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Review and Measurements of Yamaha RX-A1080 AVR

This is a review and detailed measurements of Yamaha RX-A1080 Home Theater Audio/Video Receiver (AVR). I purchased this solely for the purpose of testing through my company (Madrona Digital is a dealer for Yamaha among many other brands). The RX-A1080 is part of the upper tier of Yamaha AVRs...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Review and Measurements of NAD T758 V3 AVR

This is a review and detailed measurements of the NAD T758 V3 Home Theater Audio/Video Receiver (AVR). It was kindly sent to me by a member. The T758 appears to have been released last year and costs US $1,399. The T758 is quite a bit heavier than recently measured AVRs and has a serious...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[jkp401]

I think when it comes to “sound quality“ (SQ), a lot of it is based on hearsay and a million SQ opinions. The more expensive the components, the better the SQ opinion.

Based on my experience of owning $5,500 AVR and $7500 Pre-pro and Amplifier separates, I don’t think you will hear a difference in SQ among Anthem, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, NAD, etc., in Direct modes (when you bypass EQ and DSP to use minimal or no processing).

So it ultimately comes down to things like reliability history, compatibility, WiFi apps and streaming, customer and warranty service.

Just because a component costs a lot more or is perceived as being more “audiophile“ does not guarantee better quality and especially not reliability.

So I recommend the Yamaha RX-A3080 if you are looking for an AVR.

If you are looking for separates, then I recommend the Yamaha CX-A5100 and MX-A5200 or another amp (like ATI, Monolith, Outlaw).

As we all know, we base our purchasing decisions on our own experiences as well as our friends'.

And how we feel today may not be the same as a few years ago or a few years from now.

1. Currently, it seems Yamaha might be the most reliable major big brands (Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, Pioneer, Integra, Anthem, Sony, etc.).

2. Yamaha also appears to be the only major big brand to extensively tests for HDMI compatibility.

@M Code might elaborate on Reliability and Compatibililty.

3. The Yamaha WiFi remote app and WiFi music streaming app (MusicCast) is the best I've ever seen compared to all the other brands.

4. Service and Warranty. I think Yamaha's customer service is better than the other brands. For warranty, usually if you have a problem with your electronics, you look for Authorized Repair shops near you. For example, for Denon/Marantz, there are 20 authorized centers listed in the USA (some are closed now because of COVID19). But if there is not local center, then you have to ship to Panurgy in NJ. Or if the local shops cannot repair your Denon/Marantz, then they also have to ship to Panurgy. But Denon/Marantz will not pay for shipping to Panurgy. The customers have to pay for shipping to Panurgy even under warranty. I'm not sure if the local shops will ship to Panurgy for free or will make you pay. But the DM websites say the customers are responsible for shipping to Panurgy.

In contrast, Yamaha will pay shipping BOTH WAYS for both brand new and refurbished components.

5. I believe M Code also mentioned that Yamaha keeps everything or most things In-House, instead of Out-Sourcing to other companies. Other brands will out-source most things.


Of course, like all brands, there are pros and cons depending on what's important to you.

1. If you MUST have a certain Auto Room EQ (Anthem ARC, DM Audyssey, Dirac, Trinnov, etc.), then you should go with the brands that have these features. Yamaha has YPAO 64-bit, but I think some people consider this inferior to Audyssey and other auto room EQ. I don't care about ANY auto room EQ. I only care about MANUAL Parametric EQ (PEQ), and Yamaha has a 7-band manual PEQ for each speaker, which is great for me. So if you don't care about Auto Room EQ, then it is not a factor.

2. Downsampling of music files when using Auto EQ. Most brands (Anthem, Denon, Marantz, etc.) will Downsample music files to 48kHz. But Yamaha will not downsample and keep at full 192kHz. I don't care about this, but some people do care about it.

3. Pure Direct/Direct Mode. Some people want Direct Mode, but also want to use their Subwoofers in Direct Mode. You can do with Denon/Marantz, but you cannot do this with Yamaha. With Yamaha, using Direct Mode will not allow the use of Subwoofers at all. So Yamaha' Direct Mode forces you to use FULL RANGE Large towers. I don't think there is a difference in SQ between Pure Direct vs Stereo or Straight Mode.

Since none of these "cons" affect me and the SQ is second to none, my main focus is on Reliability, Compatibility, WiFi Remote Apps (very important to me since my components are in a closet) and WiFi Music Streaming (MusicCast). I love Yamaha MusicCast. It is so easy for me and works 100% for me.

But again, this is the CURRENT state. Things may change in the future.

Thank you for providing the detailed response. Having been out of the audio purchasing scene for some time, it's great to have knowledgeable input to assist in my decision. All of your input noted. Lots to digest.

 

[jkp401]

Lots of great points from @AcuDefTechGuy. I would add I think it comes down to amp quality, dac quality, and if you use EQ and what method of EQ each has. If you prefer to measure and use manual EQ, I think Yamaha would make a great choice. If you prefer automated eq, I would lean towards Denon for Audyssey XT32 (with the use of the app). Also, if you use multiple subwoofers, Audyssey's subht works really well to properly integrate multiple subs. I would lean towards a Denon X3600 (or X3500 which can be had for $500). Below are bench test of the x3600h and the yamaha a1080. I have an x3500 in my living room and enjoy it and an x8500 in our theater and really like it as well. Also linked below is the measurements for the NAD T758 (which I had). It measures pretty poorly in particular if you like to listen at higher volumes. Poor amp and DAC measurements, but Dirac works well. I would be interested in how the T778 measures from NAD but it hasn't been tested anywhere yet that I know of. YMMV.

Denon AVR-X3600H AV Receiver Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon AVR-X3600H 9.2 channel AVR. It was purchased new by a kind member who drop shipped it to me. It costs US $1,099. From outside the AVR-X3600H seems like any other AVR: But the controls feel a lot better than some other AVRs. The...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Review and Measurements of Yamaha RX-A1080 AVR

This is a review and detailed measurements of Yamaha RX-A1080 Home Theater Audio/Video Receiver (AVR). I purchased this solely for the purpose of testing through my company (Madrona Digital is a dealer for Yamaha among many other brands). The RX-A1080 is part of the upper tier of Yamaha AVRs...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Review and Measurements of NAD T758 V3 AVR

This is a review and detailed measurements of the NAD T758 V3 Home Theater Audio/Video Receiver (AVR). It was kindly sent to me by a member. The T758 appears to have been released last year and costs US $1,399. The T758 is quite a bit heavier than recently measured AVRs and has a serious...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Hello. Great to have additional and varied input. Although suggestions for components vary between you and
AcuDefTechGuy, commonality is emerging regarding opinions. Have read your suggesting link and the field is narrowing.

 

[PENG]

I have a NAD T785 equipped with the AM200 and VM200 MDC cards. I would like to upgrade my receiver and have the option of installing the NAD MDC VM300 and AM230 cards (for increased system compatibiity). Once the price of those two upgrade cards is factored in, the option of a new receiver enters the equation. I thoroughly enjoy the NAD sound and sound quality is paramount; both for music and movies. I am leaning toward replacement of my NAD with the Anthem MRC 1120. Am I making a mistake? Should I upgrade the NAD cards instead? How about Marantz? I am not a bells and whistles guy. I prefer quality construction, quality components, musicality and reliability. Thoughts?

It is a difficult question to answer as some people are more affected by subjective reviews on forums, print magazines and other online reviews, some with bench measurements, while others would focus mainly on specs especially those verifiable by bench measurements.

Relying on specs and measurements allow you to make your decision on just facts and data, instead of people's, including your own subjective impressions when comparing electronics often in different acoustic environments and often with different settings even if connected to the same speakers and using the same media contents.

Once you get pass the entry level stuff, better measurements may not likely have audible effects, but by comparing specs and measurements, it should give you some idea as to how they "measure" up when human bias and Placebo effects are ignored. Sorry about the long preamble, below are the objective stuff (facts and data) if you are interested in reading up on. To me, if the card upgrade cost exceeds the best measured AVR, the decision should be simple but again it depends on your objective goals and personal preference of style, brand loyalty, and other subjective factors. ASR also just reviewed Audyssey XT32, the reviewer now changed his mind on the effectiveness of it. I am not surprised as I have compared XT32 with Dirac Live (trial version) and have no doubt XT32 can do an excellent job, at least for the 10-150 Hz range, if you use the $20 App.

SR8012
MRX-1120
NADT777
AV8805
AVR-X3600H

The Anthem MRX1120 (has an average DAC) measured better than the much more expensive Marantz AVP (has the best DAC) in THD+N, but guess what, the cheapest Denon has just been measured, and for two channel use it ranks seccond on the chart, in fact if HDMI input is used, it has the same THD+N (reciprocal of SINAD) as the $5,000 Emotiva processor.

 

[jkp401]

It is a difficult question to answer as some people are more affected by subjective reviews on forums, print magazines and other online reviews, some with bench measurements, while others would focus mainly on specs especially those verifiable by bench measurements.

Relying on specs and measurements allow you to make your decision on just facts and data, instead of people's, including your own subjective impressions when comparing electronics often in different acoustic environments and often with different settings even if connected to the same speakers and using the same media contents.

Once you get pass the entry level stuff, better measurements may not likely have audible effects, but by comparing specs and measurements, it should give you some idea as to how they "measure" up when human bias and Placebo effects are ignored. Sorry about the long preamble, below are the objective stuff (facts and data) if you are interested in reading up on. To me, if the card upgrade cost exceeds the best measured AVR, the decision should be simple but again it depends on your objective goals and personal preference of style, brand loyalty, and other subjective factors. ASR also just reviewed Audyssey XT32, the reviewer now changed his mind on the effectiveness of it. I am not surprised as I have compared XT32 with Dirac Live (trial version) and have no doubt XT32 can do an excellent job, at least for the 10-150 Hz range, if you use the $20 App.

SR8012
MRX-1120
NADT777
AV8805
AVR-X3600H

The Anthem MRX1120 (has an average DAC) measured better than the much more expensive Marantz AVP (has the best DAC) in THD+N, but guess what, the cheapest Denon has just been measured, and for two channel use it ranks seccond on the chart, in fact if HDMI input is used, it has the same THD+N (reciprocal of SINAD) as the $5,000 Emotiva processor.

View attachment 35717

Hello and thank you for your input. Inferring from your comments, the whole may or may not be greater than the sum of it's parts. Secondly, subjective impressions vary widely because of listener bias and the fact that our senses are not uniformly calibrated. So no two people will sense the same thing at the same time. That said, if all things are reasonably equal, two factors are gaining more importance in my purchasing choice. Reliability and price.

 

[PENG]

Hello and thank you for your input. Inferring from your comments, the whole may or may not be greater than the sum of it's parts. Secondly, subjective impressions vary widely because of listener bias and the fact that our senses are not uniformly calibrated. So no two people will sense the same thing at the same time. That said, if all things are reasonably equal, two factors are gaining more importance in my purchasing choice. Reliability and price.

You summed it up nicely, that puts the Denon on top if you don't mind the 7.1.4 Atmos capable feature. If you are good with 5.1.4 then the RX-A2080 may be on top because of the apparent reliability record per our insider M Code. As an experienced EE, I do think the X3600H + a quiet 120 mm fan on top of the unit should bring its reliability to the Yamaha's level. A feature rich AVR that operate trouble free after 90 days of use should last for a long time if heat is not an issue. The internal fans of such units never seem to turn on so I think they are there to minimize warranty claims only, not for longevity and are therefore set to kicked in at higher temperature than what is needed for it to last longer, say longer than 5 years.

 

[Pogre]

Hello and thank you for your input. Inferring from your comments, the whole may or may not be greater than the sum of it's parts. Secondly, subjective impressions vary widely because of listener bias and the fact that our senses are not uniformly calibrated. So no two people will sense the same thing at the same time. That said, if all things are reasonably equal, two factors are gaining more importance in my purchasing choice. Reliability and price.

Well put. You are grasping the concept faster than some. Reliability and price. After that is your preference of room correction, eq and feature sets. All else being equal I expect any well built amp or receiver to sound pretty much the same, with any differences more likely attributed to a flaw of some sort.

Speakers, speakers, speakers. That is always going to be where you'll find differences in sq, detail, transparency, soundstaging, imaging, etc. Always in the speakers, not the amp or receiver.

 

[M Code]

All of the mentioned technical factors are crucial but...
There are a couple of additional points to consider..

• Warranty period, labor, parts
• Where is the nearest repair center
• Who pays for shipping to/from
• Tech support, in USA or off-shore

Just my $0.02...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hello and thank you for your input. Inferring from your comments, the whole may or may not be greater than the sum of it's parts. Secondly, subjective impressions vary widely because of listener bias and the fact that our senses are not uniformly calibrated. So no two people will sense the same thing at the same time. That said, if all things are reasonably equal, two factors are gaining more importance in my purchasing choice. Reliability and price.

As a dealer, it doesn't matter to me if my clients buy Marantz, Denon, or Yamaha. But I have sold more Marantz/Denon than Yamaha, even though when clients ask me, I've been recommending Yamaha since that is what I would buy for myself.

I just sold a Denon X8500 to a client after I recommended to him the Yamaha CX-A5100 pre-pro and MX-A5200 amp.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

All of the mentioned technical factors are crucial but...
There are a couple of additional points to consider..

• Warranty period, labor, parts
• Where is the nearest repair center
• Who pays for shipping to/from
• Tech support, in USA or off-shore

Just my $0.02...

And if those repair centers are open for Walk-ins due to a Pandemic or if they only accept shipping.

 

[jkp401]

All of the mentioned technical factors are crucial but...
There are a couple of additional points to consider..

• Warranty period, labor, parts
• Where is the nearest repair center
• Who pays for shipping to/from
• Tech support, in USA or off-shore

Just my $0.02...

All important considerations. Being a home owner for over forty years, I no longer have the naivety to believe anything will last a lifetime. At some point everything man made requires maintenance or repair. I fully expect that whatever I buy, will at some point require service. Sadly, manufacturing standards are no longer what they used to be. Home appliances for example that used to last 20 years or more are only expected to last 5 to 10. Our disposable culture is to blame. My concern is that what ever I buy will have also been subject to that planned obsolescence trend. (complete failure, not compatibility). That said, I have taken steps to mitigate damage to today's more fragile equipment. Starting with the electrical wiring. Ensuring whole home proper grounding. Dedicated 20 amp isolated ground to my AV system. Whole home and AV surge suppression. Keeping home pump, compressors isolated on their own circuits (their high initial draw can be damaging to sensitive electrical components on the same circuit). But lets face it. Home Theater is an expensive hobby. Not as bad as boating though. That's a hole in the water that your pour money into . I sincerely appreciate all the knowledgeable comments and I'm sure other readers have also taken the candor into account. Cheers. J.

PS. On warranty. An often forgotten plus. On many credit cards, the warranty is doubled if the entire purchase is placed on the card. It often without hassle or receipt. As long as the purchase appears on a credit card statement.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

All important considerations. Being a home owner for over forty years, I no longer have the naivety to believe anything will last a lifetime. At some point everything man made requires maintenance or repair. I fully expect that whatever I buy, will at some point require service. Sadly, manufacturing standards are no longer what they used to be. Home appliances for example that used to last 20 years or more are only expected to last 5 to 10. Our disposable culture is to blame. My concern is that what ever I buy will have also been subject to that planned obsolescence trend. (complete failure, not compatibility). That said, I have taken steps to mitigate damage to today's more fragile equipment. Starting with the electrical wiring. Ensuring whole home proper grounding. Dedicated 20 amp isolated ground to my AV system. Whole home and AV surge suppression. Keeping home pump, compressors isolated on their own circuits (their high initial draw can be damaging to sensitive electrical components on the same circuit). But lets face it. Home Theater is an expensive hobby. Not as bad as boating though. That's a hole in the water that your pour money into . I sincerely appreciate all the knowledgeable comments and I'm sure other readers have also taken the candor into account. Cheers. J.

PS. On warranty. An often forgotten plus. On many credit cards, the warranty is doubled if the entire purchase is placed on the card. It often without hassle or receipt. As long as the purchase appears on a credit card statement.

Which credit card doubles your warranty? My Amazon Prime Visa from Chase only extends the warranty by 1 additional year.

 

[DJ7675]

Which credit card doubles your warranty? My Amazon Prime Visa only extends the warranty by 1 additional year.

I don’t know of ones that double, but most AMEX cards will add an additional year to manufacturers warranty.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don’t know of ones that double, but most AMEX cards will add an additional year to manufacturers warranty.

Yeah, I've only seen cards extend the warranty for 1 additional year if the original warranty is 5YR or less.

Would love a CC that extends a warranty from 5YR to 10YR.

 

[jkp401]

Sorry. Did not intend to mislead. I also stand corrected. My credit card adds an additional one of coverage. I must state however that I am located in Canada and that major banks here have cards available that will extend the warranty up two years for additional fee.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sorry. Did not intend to mislead. I also stand corrected. My credit card adds an additional one of coverage. I must state however that I am located in Canada and that major banks here have cards available that will extend the warranty up two years for additional fee.

The Costco Visa CC offers 2 Years Extended Warranty (no annual fee w/ Costco membership $60/yr ).

Costco Anywhere Visa® Card by Citi and Costco Anywhere Visa® Business Card by Citi

And since I am already a Costco member, I now have this card to use.