Coronavirus

[TLS Guy]

There often is a fixable reason if you look hard.

I think realizing there are two types of lung injury is important. Deaths seem to most commonly occur from lung injury and the direct effects of the virus.

I think realizing there are two types of lung injury, is a big step forward. It is now differentiated as L and H types. The L seems commonest. It seems the usual plan of ventilation has probably been causing pneumatic injury. So this L type requires gently inflation pressure, avoiding high peak pressure and being very careful to minimize the inhalation/expiration pressure gradient coupled with very judicious use of PEEP. With this regime the hypoxia does seem fairly oxygen responsive. It seems to be reducing vent time according to anecdotal reports.

The less common H type is more akin to ARDS and requires standard care.

Hopefully good care will limit supervening septic episodes.

In closing I have to say your ultra woke posturing is frankly irritating. Saying you can't use Obama's middle initial is saying that you believe a Muslim name is inferior to a Christian one. That is patent nonsense.

I think I can speak for the others here that we are tired of you parading your wokeness and would prefer if you would stick to the discussion of the serious problem at hand.

Lastly I can assure you a ventilator is a very valid solution..

 

[TLS Guy]

TLS Guy, thanks for posting.

Was there any discussion about why this occurs?

I heard that there is a blog article out there somewhere (not peer reviewed)(I have not seen it) indicating that this virus apparently removes the iron ion (which binds oxygen)from hemoglobin. As a result, red blood cells are not transporting as much oxygen and oxygen saturation levels decrease. When these levels go down and cannot be maintained by giving the patient oxygen, people are being placed on ventilators and higher pressure is used in an effort to increase oxygen levels. But, this is ineffective because the RBCs cannot transport the oxygen. Also, the higher pressure damages the lungs.

According to this person, this may indicate that plasma with antibodies may not be helpful beyond a certain point, but whole blood transfusions may be.

I'm wondering why, according to the AP, that 80% of patients in NYC on ventilators die. This seems like a remarkably high percentage to me (I realize there are likely to be many contributing factors, and it's probably impossible to know right now).

Any comments you may have would be appreciated (at least by me, I can't speak for the rest of the crew here).

The reason you site can not be the problem. When you see an oxygen binding problem like in CO poisoning then the hemoglobin can not uptake oxygen so saturates the hemoglobin, making unavailable fro oxygen transport. So that manifests itself by a huge arterial venous oxygen gradient. Although the CO poisoned victim is severely oxygen depleted they are not blue, but rosy pink because the hemoglobin will not give up the CO.

The reason I think is related to the damage to the elastic infrastructure of the lung, which is somehow causing difficulty with diffusion of oxygen into the alveolus.
I can't think of another situation where this has been noted before. We are early in the game and there is more we don;t know then do know unfortunately. Those in the front lines are very much learning in the world of hard knocks.

 

[JerryLove]

There often is a fixable reason if you look hard.

Literally everything is fixable with the right knowledge and tools.

In closing I have to say your ultra woke posturing is frankly irritating. Saying you can't use Obama's middle initial is saying that you believe a Muslim name is inferior to a Christian one. That is patent nonsense.

WTF?

Dude. I was nice enough to ignore the continued xenophobia in your earlier post (again passing moral / aesthetic judgement on marketplaces)... and this is the BS you put out.

It's also a completed failure of understanding an English sentence.

Racists believe that a Muslim name is "bad".
Racists make sure to use the Muslim middle-name of President Obama (or a reference to it) as a dog whistle.
I pointed out the dog whistle...much like I pointed out your racism.

"woke"? LOL. You need to work on your definitions Boomer.

Since *you* have decided to focus on the politics; let's go back to the post I deliberately hadn't responded to.

They deliberately hid and tried to suppress this outbreak by violent repressive means of that there is no doubt.

Suppressing outbreaks is good. You want to amplify outbreaks?

Are you talking about misinformation? Shall I start quoting US leaders?

They should have cleaned up their vile wet markets years ago, as they had been advised by many.

vile: "morally bad; wicked.".

Totally not racist to call some entire country's practice morally bad. I'm sure Vegans have some opinions about you too.

Although making them illegal they offered no enforcement.

I'm confused. Is China oppressive or lase' fair.

Since that time they have run a concerted disinformation campaign

And what has the US government been doing with this "Democratic Hoax" again?

In closing I personally am going to go out of my way to avoid purchasing any Chinese produced goods. Going forward I think we have to force regime change in China by whatever means.

Yea.. because that totally works.

Near-global embargo haven't overturned Cuba, or N.Korea. A one-man embargo won't register on the most populus country and second largest economy... even if it didn't have the only source of any number of materials and production.

Lastly I can assure you a ventilator is a very valid solution..

Tell that to the dead people on ventilators. Or are you asserting that the bulk of the doctors in NY are incompetent?

 

[Midwesthonky]

Touch off topic, but really cool regardless. Here is an article about the genome history tracing of the virus. The testing shows the virus in NYC came from Europe and was spreading long before we knew about it. Shows that had testing been undertaken quickly like other countries, we could have detected it a lot quicker. The Washington cases originated in China. Plus it shows there was cross-country spread as well. Pretty fascinating read, but then I'm a geek about such stuff.

 

[TLS Guy]

Literally everything is fixable with the right knowledge and tools.


WTF?

Dude. I was nice enough to ignore the continued xenophobia in your earlier post (again passing moral / aesthetic judgement on marketplaces)... and this is the BS you put out.

It's also a completed failure of understanding an English sentence.

Racists believe that a Muslim name is "bad".
Racists make sure to use the Muslim middle-name of President Obama (or a reference to it) as a dog whistle.
I pointed out the dog whistle...much like I pointed out your racism.

"woke"? LOL. You need to work on your definitions Boomer.

Since *you* have decided to focus on the politics; let's go back to the post I deliberately hadn't responded to.



Suppressing outbreaks is good. You want to amplify outbreaks?

Are you talking about misinformation? Shall I start quoting US leaders?

vile: "morally bad; wicked.".

Totally not racist to call some entire country's practice morally bad. I'm sure Vegans have some opinions about you too.


I'm confused. Is China oppressive or lase' fair.


And what has the US government been doing with this "Democratic Hoax" again?


Yea.. because that totally works.

Near-global embargo haven't overturned Cuba, or N.Korea. A one-man embargo won't register on the most populus country and second largest economy... even if it didn't have the only source of any number of materials and production.


Tell that to the dead people on ventilators. Or are you asserting that the bulk of the doctors in NY are incompetent?

Right you have now earned my first negative rating and the first to go on my ignore list. You are like many today, who just keep inventing this nonsense to trip people up and act superior. The fact is that GWB and BHO are equivalent. Anyone who thinks they are not equivalent is racist in my view. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

At the moment you are ruining the educational value of this thread. For Heaven's sake go away.

 

[Swerd]

Touch off topic, but really cool regardless. Here is an article about the genome history tracing of the virus. The testing shows the virus in NYC came from Europe and was spreading long before we knew about it. Shows that had testing been undertaken quickly like other countries, we could have detected it a lot quicker. The Washington cases originated in China. Plus it shows there was cross-country spread as well. Pretty fascinating read, but then I'm a geek about such stuff.

I saw & liked that too.

The other take-home lesson from all that genome sequencing is that SARS-CoV-2 is closely related to one or several viruses known to exist in Asian bats. There is no evidence that a germ warfare lab, in Asia or the West, developed this for military use.

 

[TLS Guy]

I saw & liked that too.

The other take-home lesson from all that genome sequencing is that SARS-CoV-2 is closely related to one or several viruses known to exist in Asian bats. There is no evidence that a germ warfare lab, in Asia or the West, developed this for military use.

It would be totally negligent though not to ask the question. I'm sure it is, especially in Porton Down, where there are spooks galore I suspect. There main task and function is to be on the lookout for this sort of thing.

 

[3db]

View attachment 35267

Thats sad. The US death rate has surpassed the "known" Canadian infection rate as of today. Our medical leaders suggests that by the time the pandemic wave has passed, we will see up to 20K plus deaths as well.

Has anyone heard about are Mexican friends?

 

[Swerd]

It would be totally negligent though not to ask the question. I'm sure it is, especially in Porton Down, where there are spooks galore I suspect. There main task and function is to be on the lookout for this sort of thing.

Yes, both the US and the UK maintain germ warfare labs for just this reason. So do the Russians and Chinese. All involved claim it is only for defensive purposes .

In WW2, the Japanese looked deeply into several types of germ warfare, both bacterial and viral. They tested several extensively in Manchuria using POWs as human subjects. They concluded that germ warfare was unusable because it was as likely to infect your own army as it was your enemy. Recent events with the rapid and uncontrolled spread of SARS-CoV-2 confirm that.

 

[JerryLove]

Right you have now earned my first negative rating and the first to go on my ignore list.

I'd be far more worried to have a racist's approval than his ire.

A hint for the back of the room... "Responding to a posts" and "Rating a post" are both antithetical to "ignoring". Feel encouraged to ignore me. I will not be ignoring your racist or personal comments.

You are like many today, who just keep inventing this nonsense to trip people up and act superior.

You mean like referring to other's cultural practices as "vile"? That sort of superior.

The fact is that GWB and BHO are equivalent. Anyone who thinks they are not equivalent is racist in my view. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

You mean like DJT, WJC, and RWR? Wait. Like, no one uses those. Do you even *know* Reagan's middle name without looking it up? What about Pence? What's his middle name (no looking). We know Trump is a "J", but do you know what it stands for? Really?

And only the right seems to use BHO.

And the user in this post literally stated that he liked that it sounded insulting.

GWB, at least attempts to make a distinction with GHWB, though honestly I usually see "Bush43" or "BushJr". Personally, I most commonly say "second president Bush".

At the moment you are ruining the educational value of this thread. For Heaven's sake go away.

Ok Boomer.

 

[3db]

I saw & liked that too.

The other take-home lesson from all that genome sequencing is that SARS-CoV-2 is closely related to one or several viruses known to exist in Asian bats. There is no evidence that a germ warfare lab, in Asia or the West, developed this for military use.

Im not suggesting that the Chineese engineered this but I was under the impression that Wuhan does have a biowarefare facility there. I'm inclined to think that the uncleanliness of their open food markets is a more likely cause of this. As bad as COVID is, Im relieved its not SARS.

What we need to do to fight this is have the worlds brightest medical researchers join together and share their research and findings if this is not a,ready happening.

On a positive note, a 103 year old resident of an old age home here in Ottawa has survived a COVID infection.

 

[JerryLove]

In WW2, the Japanese looked deeply into several types of germ warfare, both bacterial and viral. They tested several extensively in Manchuria using POWs as human subjects. They concluded that germ warfare was unusable because it was as likely to infect your own army as it was your enemy. Recent events with the rapid and uncontrolled spread of SARS-CoV-2 confirm that.

Some of the stuff the US came up with in WWII was... innovative.. Pigeon-guided missiles, incendiary bats (like, literal bats with incendiary explosives) .. the Japanese cross-Pacific balloon bombs were terribly clever.

You have to keep the germ labs or get caught off guard with an attack that your enemy understands how to counter and you don't. It's a terrible fact, but seems true none-the-less.

 

[KEW]

Touch off topic, but really cool regardless. Here is an article about the genome history tracing of the virus. The testing shows the virus in NYC came from Europe and was spreading long before we knew about it. Shows that had testing been undertaken quickly like other countries, we could have detected it a lot quicker. The Washington cases originated in China. Plus it shows there was cross-country spread as well. Pretty fascinating read, but then I'm a geek about such stuff.

I would like to read this, but there is no link that I can see!
What am I missing?

 

[3db]

Im watching the news and Trump has ordered the distribution of a new miracle drug designed to fight COVID19. Whats that all about?

 

[Trell]

Im watching the news and Trump has ordered the distribution of a new miracle drug designed to fight COVID19. Whats that all about?

His reelection, I guess, but I do hope he has a good scientific base to stand upon. But you knew that already

 

[TLS Guy]

I would like to read this, but there is no link that I can see!
What am I missing?

This has been widely reported.

Iceland by the way has done a superb job of increasing our understanding of this virus.

The thing that really worries me is that they have identified 40 different strains. This suggests to me that this virus is unstable. This I fear may well explain the different experience from location to location.

 

[3db]

This has been widely reported.

Iceland by the way has done a superb job of increasing our understanding of this virus.

The thing that really worries me is that they have identified 40 different strains. This suggests to me that this virus is unstable. This I fear may well explain the different experience from location to location.

Unstable as in mutating?

 

[Swerd]

I would like to read this, but there is no link that I can see!
What am I missing?

Most New York Coronavirus Cases Came From Europe, Genomes Show

Travelers seeded multiple cases starting as early as mid-February, genomes show.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Swerd]

Im watching the news and Trump has ordered the distribution of a new miracle drug designed to fight COVID19. Whats that all about?

Is that so-called miracle drug called hydroxychloroquine? It's made by a French drug company, Sandoz, and sold in the US under the name Plaquenil. It's a decade's old anti-malaria drug, used also for Lupus and rheumatoid arthritis.

There is an anecdotal report from some French MDs of a benefit among 16 Covid-19 patients treated with hydroxychloroquine. I call it an anecdotal report because it was not a prospective clinical trial with properly designed control arms and enough patients to develop adequate statistical significance. Therefore none of this is convincing evidence that hydroxychloroquine is effective against Covid-19.

The NY Times reported that several different Trump family trusts owned shares of Sandoz, either directly or indirectly through group investment funds. This report has been confirmed by other news reporting organizations, although it was denied by the usual pro-Trump sources.

I'd post a link, but when I searched "Trump Sandoz Plaquenil" all the NYT links required a subscription to read them.

 

[TLS Guy]

Unstable as in mutating?

No but it indicates antigenic drift, and a mutation therefore is very possible.