Can you use your pre-outs as well as run speakers from the terminals on the same channel?

[highrider704]

You can, as was said, probably connect wires to the binding posts, and unless you have reassigned the amp stage, there will likely be a signal there.
If you are trying to run multiple sets of speakers for your mains, you will lose all control over room correction, and you will introduce what will likely be a nightmare of comb filtering and/or other distortion.
If you run them to a different room, they will only output the associated channel signal that is being played through the AVR... so no Zone 2 in the true meaning of that term: no discreet multi-zone audio.

It is your system so you are welcome to try. Of course if there is any reason why it may not like what you are doing, expect it to lock up and require a trip to an authorized service center to unlock. Right now, by your description, you are using it to the max; all 11 channels are in use. Anything beyond that will likely void the warranty if it is still valid.

Good information i think i will stay clear from doing so. I mean it was just mainly a thought that would or wouldnt be put into action depending on you (audio genius's)information. Thank you all for this discussion.

 

[PENG]

Exactly!!!! Do you think i can do it??

Just to be clear, as mentioned by AVUser001 in post#13, you can do it but only if you have not already assigned the front left/right channels to your Height/Atmos channels in order to run 7.1.4 then the answer is "NO".

Conversely if you have not assigned the front left/right channels away to those Height/Atmos then the answer is "Yes". So it really depends on how you have wired your external amplifier and whether you want to reconfigure them in do what you want to do now.

Is that clear enough for you?

 

[highrider704]

He wasn't talking about "assign" at all if I understood right. I thought he just want to use both FL/FR pre-outs and the FL/FR speaker terminals at the same time. That means he could have two pairs of speakers doing the exact same thing. I am not clear why he needs to do such thing.

THank you this is exactly what i am talking about!!!!

 

[PENG]

so i could run 4 fronts and then be able to have my height channels as my zone 2 in a different room. Does that make sense?

Please see my post#22 to see that answered your question. It would help you can tell us how you have connected your external amp at the moment. As it is now it is unclear what you meant by "..height channels as my zone 2 in a different room.." Did you mean wiring two of the four height channels to the height speaker terminals, or to the height channel pre-outs and then the pre-outs to the external two channel power amp?

Once you clarify that, we can give you a firm yes/no answer.

Edit: I think it is easier if I ask the question in point form.

1. Are your front left/right speakers currently connected to the front left and front right speaker binding posts?
2. How many channels are available on your external amp?
3. There are 4 height channel speaker binding posts on the Denon, are all 4 used up to connect your height speakers, or only two and the other two are left empty or used in your other room?

 

[highrider704]

Looks like we scared @highrider704 away ;-)

What I was trying to get at is his current speaker & amp assign config. This is a 9 channel amp with 11 processing channels(& speaker terminals). He indicated he's already using the Height1 & Height2 channels (ie all amp channels already taken).

Since he's already doing the pre-out on Front speaker terminals, the front channel amps , either explicitly or implicitly got reassigned to the Height channels.

Assuming thats the case, his front speaker terminals will output nothing (ie becomes dummy) and even if he attempts to double-dip and connect different speakers to the front terminals(thats already pre-outed & reassigned), its going to be an useless exercise - no power o/p( even if electrically no problem).

Right ?

Yes exactly....ok, so it will not work is what your saying?

 

[AVUser001]

Yes exactly....ok, so it will not work is what your saying?

You need to first tell us, how you have connected ALL the speaker terminals and Amp assignments . You should be able to get screenshots from Marantz Amp assignment section.

From what you said earlier , looks like you've exhausted all the 9 amp channels and 11 speaker terminals ..including the Heights. IF thats the case, its very likely, the front channel amps are already assigned - taken up ( explicitly by you or implicitly by AVR) , to power your Height speakers.

 

[ryanosaur]

Yes exactly....ok, so it will not work is what your saying?

Without an accurate description from you, we are only guessing what your intent is, and how you are running your setup now.
Though you said above, your intent was to run extra mains (Still not going to be a good idea, from the acoustics)...

To answer PENG, from an academic standpoint, how do you currently have your speakers and Amps connected to the AVR?

 

[PENG]

Gents, we are all trying to help the OP but we still not 100% sure if the answer should be yes, no or yes but etc..

For better clarity, I just edited my post#24 to re-arrange my questions in point form. Please feel free to add to the 3 questions I came up with, in case I missed any.

Too bad, Denon/Marantz owner's manual are not well written on this and inexperienced users can easily be confused or misled.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm still on my first coffee but if he wants the L/R content twice its doable....I don't think I figured out why, tho don't think I really care either Maybe on the second cup....

 

[ryanosaur]

I'm still on my first coffee but if he wants the L/R content twice its doable....I don't think I figured out why, tho don't think I really care either Maybe on the second cup....

I'm starting my second too... espresso here.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm starting my second too... espresso here.

Not quite the same....but still good, aeropress style. Maybe I should fire up the Bialetti out of the camp kit....

 

[AVUser001]

Out of curiosity , I did a search and apparently, this same question was asked earlier at AH and Polk forum.

Use of pre-outs and speaker terminals simultaneously

Question came up elsewhere, as apparently some avr manuals warn against doing such for a given channel(s). If you did utilize both the pre-outs and the speaker terminals for the same channels for some reason, would the reason being advised against doing so be electrical in nature or just a...

forums.audioholics.com

Seems Yamaha manual explicitly discourages such config:

Using the pre-out and AVR fronts at the same time?

I am looking for thoughts on the following: I am currently running a Yamaha aventage 3010 AVR.

forum.polkaudio.com

With Marantz blowing transistors on the Front amp channels , with a loud pop on Height speaker(Atmos/Ceiling) - which is how I discovered the amp reassignment from pre-outed Front channels to Heights (although that wasnt the cause of transistors blowing), I'dnt try such a non-standard configuration in my system , even if it works , if it was upto me!

Neverthless, in this particular case, I strongly suspect the front amp channels are already accounted for - being redirected to power height channels , unless he frees them up.

 

[lovinthehd]

As they say, one way to find out....

 

[PENG]

Out of curiosity , I did a search and apparently, this same question was asked earlier at AH and Polk forum.

Use of pre-outs and speaker terminals simultaneously

Question came up elsewhere, as apparently some avr manuals warn against doing such for a given channel(s). If you did utilize both the pre-outs and the speaker terminals for the same channels for some reason, would the reason being advised against doing so be electrical in nature or just a...

forums.audioholics.com

Seems Yamaha manual explicitly discourages such config:

Using the pre-out and AVR fronts at the same time?

I am looking for thoughts on the following: I am currently running a Yamaha aventage 3010 AVR.

forum.polkaudio.com

With Marantz blowing transistors on the Front amp channels , with a loud pop on Height speaker(Atmos/Ceiling) - which is how I discovered the amp reassignment from pre-outed Front channels to Heights (although that wasnt the cause of transistors blowing), I'dnt try such a non-standard configuration in my system , even if it works , if it was upto me!

Neverthless, in this particular case, I strongly suspect the front amp channels are already accounted for - being redirected to power height channels , unless he frees them up.

Marantz (and Denon of course) did a poor job explaining the amp assign of the FL/FR amps to the heights, in fact I don't think they even mention it. They, out of silliness, seem to think most people will only connect their two channel amp to the height channel pre outs in order to run 7.1.4. However, in the onscreen amp assign menu, they were very clear about the option to assign the FL/FR to pre outs thereby free up those two internal amps to be re-assigned. I have been doing it every since I started using 7.1.4 and posted the screen shots many times on this forum. The only fringe benefits I (assuming many other users too) I didn't realize was that doing it this way the pre out signal of the FL/FR will remain clean at high voltage. No advantage to me but could be advantageous for people who use the same set up for two channel and listen at loud levels.

As mention before, technically/electrically speaking there should be no issues connected the pre out to an ext amp while still connecting speakers to the binding posts. As HD pointed out from the beginning, the pre outs are always "hot" anyway. Whether you connect speakers to the binding posts or not, the power amps are also always connected, the only exception is the FL/FR channels that can be disconnected from the pre outs if you assign them to the height channels, and that's the point you have been making about the OP's intention. That's still an assumption on our part, until the OP answers my 3 questions. For example, he could have connected the external amp to the pre outs of the height channels, as explained in the Owner's manual. In that case, the FL/FR amps would still be "alive" and he might have connected his front speakers to them already but now wants to use the preout/ext amp to connected an additional pair. Again, like HD, I don't really care why he wants to do it this way, just want to be able to give him the right answer to his question. Trouble is, we are not 100% sure what his question really is so answers given will also may not be 100% correct.

 

[AVUser001]

Agreed.., taking a coffee break and going back to work ;-)

 

[PENG]

Agreed.., taking a coffee break and going back to work ;-)

Work from home right?

By the way, when said Yamaha discourage..., I assume you referred to the cautionary note in the Owner's manual:

View attachment 35219

That to me, is stating the obvious and is what we all have been trying to tell the OP, that the speakers should be connected to the external amp. I don't think the manual writer was talking in technical terms, and it is always wise to error on the safe side anyway. Great find though.

 

[AVUser001]

Work from home right?

Yes, the only upside of this deadly episode , enjoying the Qobuz trial , in between the Zoom mtgs ;-)

By the way, when said Yamaha discourage..., I assume you referred to the cautionary note in the Owner's manual:

Yes , that one... Like you said, D&M manuals are vague in those aspects.

 

[jcsantana]

I have a simirar question and probably I can receive some feedback here.

I want to listen the front, rear and back speakers using external amps; and use the receiver's internal amp just for the center channel. Is my first time using both: receiver and external amps. My prevoius system was a prcessor to pre-amp, to 3 amps. I read an article saying that in one receiver (don't remember which one) the speakers terminals were disabled when the pre-outs were used to avoid having both simultaneously. My doubt is that if I use the pre outs except for just that center speaker: the internal amp will work for that center speaker???; or if it could affect the receiver for just using one channel from the 7 of the receiver.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have a simirar question and probably I can receive some feedback here.

I want to listen the front, rear and back speakers using external amps; and use the receiver's internal amp just for the center channel. Is my first time using both: receiver and external amps. My prevoius system was a prcessor to pre-amp, to 3 amps. I read an article saying that in one receiver (don't remember which one) the speakers terminals were disabled when the pre-outs were used to avoid having both simultaneously. My doubt is that if I use the pre outs except for just that center speaker: the internal amp will work for that center speaker???; or if it could affect the receiver for just using one channel from the 7 of the receiver.

All the avr pre-outs I've looked into are active all the time. What unit are you considering? Should be no problem to use a combo of internal/external amps as long as you match levels (and the automatic setup program most avrs have will do that just fine).

 

[jcsantana]

I recently bought an Onkyo TX-RZ810 new in box, so saved some money compared to newer models. I have 3 old Technics SE-A1010 in perfect conditions, so I want to use them for front, surround and back speakers. Since I don't have a 1 channel amp, I want to use the internal amp of the receiver just for the center speaker. My doubt is if having just a single speaker connected to the internal amp could cause an electrical problem to the receiver.