Cerwin Vega AT-8 & D-9 Troubleshooting Help

[AndreaBlas]

Hi everyone, I have 4 Cerwin Vega speakers from my father and am having trouble powering them. I am going to list my current set up and any feedback on what to do or other amp/receiver options would be greatly appreciated.

Below are the descriptions I have found:
Cerwin Vega AT-8
# 061101. 2 Way with 8" woofer.
Freq Response: 28Hz - 28kHz.
250 watts.
Impedance 6

Cerwin Vega D-9
# 414147 3 way with 15" woofer
5/450 watts
Nominal Impedance 8
Max Output 125 dB
29Hz - 20kHz

Yamaha
Model#: RX - V667. Seriel#: Y262170SU
120V ~ 60Hz
400 watt
500 Va
Impedance 6: Front 4 min, Others 6 min
Impedance 8: Front 8 min, Others 8 min

JVC
Model#: Rx - 888V. Seriel#: 114C2185
120V ~ 60Hz
320 watt
420 Va
Impedance 8-16 : 4-6 Low, 8-16 High

Current set up:
- Smaller AT-8 ran through Yamaha into R & L Front
* Other options: Center, Surround, Surround Back/Bi-Amp, Extra SP Zone 2 + Presence
- Larger D-9 ran through JVC into R & L Front
* Other Options: Center & Rear

Originally had all 4 going through 1 receiver and only listened to a turntable. Turntable currently getting ground wire fixed. That receiver went bad, and had a music head do the current set up. JVC has the two AT-8, and the Yamaha have the D-9.
Running both sounded like the volume was changing on its own, and had fuzzy buzzy distortion. Ran only the JVC with the AT-8 and had the similar problem. Even doing just the Yamaha with the D-9 didn't have great sound.
Was playing music to test them from a phone into the phono.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, a phono input isn't a good way to listen since that will have an RIAA eq correction applied. Try another input. Might not solve the issue, but it should sound better.

The speakers are in good shape, though and operated well with other units recently? Why do you think its a power issue?

 

[AndreaBlas]

Well, a phono input isn't a good way to listen since that will have an RIAA eq correction applied. Try another input. Might not solve the issue, but it should sound better.

The speakers are in good shape, though and operated well with other units recently? Why do you think its a power issue?

Thank you I will definitely try another input. The speakers were taken somewhere reputable to get fixed. The amp/receiver are More sketchy with unknown Origin and I don’t have other speakers to test them. They were sounding alright initially but the sound went downhill Not too long after it getting set up.

 

[lovinthehd]

So what was done to the speakers? What needed "fixing"?

No way to test them by borrowing a known good receiver/amp?

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

What lovin said. The phono input is expecting an extremely low-level signal. You were over-driving the crap out of it, hence the distortion. Any other input will work fine.

Regards,
Wayne

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yeah definitely try another input.
I have a pair of D-9’s from about 1990. You can almost drive them with a cell phone. Had a lot of fun with them. They need new surrounds and my 17yo won’t stop begging for them. Lol.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Yes, only use phono inputs with a turntable. Use other inputs.

...also, Cerwin Vega issues to check are the condition of the driver foam surrounds. They deteriorate quickly and will make all sorts of distorted sound. The other is CV used fuses and or circuit breaker protection on the tweeter on various models. Make sure the fuse isn't blown or the breaker isn't tripped.

 

[AndreaBlas]

The foams and cones were replaced with Cerwin parts a about 6 month ago, all four of them have been updated. It's likely something blew.
I wasn't able to test over the weekend, but I received my fixed turntable back today and will hopefully get around to testing again.
I wanna say thank you to everyone trying to help! I had been feeling so loss as I am an audio beginner.
Will be back with more updates and to check for any further recommendations.

My audio friend said that he doesn't like the JVC's very much but it could still work.
Do you think either of these receivers/amps (I don't know the proper term) would be able to do all four? Like maybe the smaller speakers plugged into the "Front" and the bigger ones plugged into "Surround" or "Rear"

 

[AndreaBlas]

So what was done to the speakers? What needed "fixing"?

No way to test them by borrowing a known good receiver/amp?

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find someone with a known good one during this quarantine that could also help me troubleshoot.

 

[AndreaBlas]

What lovin said. The phono input is expecting an extremely low-level signal. You were over-driving the crap out of it, hence the distortion. Any other input will work fine.

Regards,
Wayne

Thank you for telling me! I used that in order to not mess with the set up. I was able to try a different audio input on the Yamaha but couldn't figure it out on the JVC.

 

[lovinthehd]

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find someone with a known good one during this quarantine that could also help me troubleshoot.

When was the last time the speakers were known to function properly since the repair? Do you have a particular reason to believe they've been damaged since repair?

Have you swapped each pair of speakers between the two receivers? On the JVC I'd suggest using the CD input with your phone in any case.

Just how had you connected the four speakers when you ran all four off one receiver? Using main and surrround terminals would be best rather than doubling them up on a given channel. You seem to think the smaller speaker requires more juice,, it's usually the other way around in terms of speaker sensitivity (larger tend to be more efficient or sensitive).

 

[AndreaBlas]

When was the last time the speakers were known to function properly since the repair? Do you have a particular reason to believe they've been damaged since repair?

Have you swapped each pair of speakers between the two receivers? On the JVC I'd suggest using the CD input with your phone in any case.

Just how had you connected the four speakers when you ran all four off one receiver? Using main and surrround terminals would be best rather than doubling them up on a given channel. You seem to think the smaller speaker requires more juice,, it's usually the other way around in terms of speaker sensitivity (larger tend to be more efficient or sensitive).

So I know they worked when I first got them back from repair about 6 months ago. They were running on a older receiver and then they started getting buzzy... I do not remember what type of receiver it was.
So then a friend decided to run them through two. They worked for a little bit but then went back to being weird, volumes being off in different ways that im not sure how to describe and buzzy.

I do think the smaller ones need less juice. If I try them both on the Yamaha, Im not sure which are suppose to go to the Front and the other option is Surround.

Im going to try playing around some today with the Turntable ground wire fixed now through the phono channel. Im going to try first the two smaller speakers and see first. I am running it through a Preamp with the ground on the preamp.

 

[AndreaBlas]

Thank you

So I know they worked when I first got them back from repair about 6 months ago. They were running on a older receiver and then they started getting buzzy... I do not remember what type of receiver it was.
So then a friend decided to run them through two. They worked for a little bit but then went back to being weird, volumes being off in different ways that im not sure how to describe and buzzy.

I do think the smaller ones need less juice. If I try them both on the Yamaha, Im not sure which are suppose to go to the Front and the other option is Surround.

Im going to try playing around some today with the Turntable ground wire fixed now through the phono channel. Im going to try first the two smaller speakers and see first. I am running it through a Preamp with the ground on the preamp.

Thank you for suggesting the CD input for my phone!

 

[AndreaBlas]

So I know they worked when I first got them back from repair about 6 months ago. They were running on a older receiver and then they started getting buzzy... I do not remember what type of receiver it was.
So then a friend decided to run them through two. They worked for a little bit but then went back to being weird, volumes being off in different ways that im not sure how to describe and buzzy.

I do think the smaller ones need less juice. If I try them both on the Yamaha, Im not sure which are suppose to go to the Front and the other option is Surround.

Im going to try playing around some today with the Turntable ground wire fixed now through the phono channel. Im going to try first the two smaller speakers and see first. I am running it through a Preamp with the ground on the preamp.

Actually I do not see phono on the Yamaha but since I have the Preamp I think I run the table into there and then plug the preamp into Audio 1?

 

[lovinthehd]

If you have an external phono stage/pre-amp then you wouldn't use the phono input at all for your turntable (a phono input on a receiver is a built-in phono stage/pre-amp). Many modern av receivers do not even have phono inputs but a glance at the 667's product page indicates it does have a phono input.

Maybe your speakers needed more than surround/cone repair....hard to know from the description.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hoffman's Iron Law - look it up

As to using a surround mode, it would play surround speakers at a bit lower level, just the nature of surround modes/processing. If you want equal output find a multi-ch stereo mode on the receiver. Do you have the sensitivity spec for each speaker?

 

[AndreaBlas]

I have sound!
Also I have enjoyed this forum and the willingness to help, and I am learning from this process.

Okay so I have figured it out for the most part with everyones help.
Ran through preamp into Audio 1 - all four speakers and everything through the Yamaha.
Fuses were good on the large. They are not hitting super deep but they are woofers and not subs if I understand correct.

The smaller ones are into the Front and the large ones into the Surround/Bi-Amp. The sound is good and clear.

Now I know when I was running it from my phone it sounded like poop because it was through the wrong input.

I've enjoyed reading about Hoffmans Iron Law as well, thank you.

* Next Question *
Would it be suggested to pull more bass out to get a sub?
A large one is fine, because I am going for a vintage look, and they tend to have larger cases from what Ive seen; luckily I have the space.
On the Yamaha, the remaining speaker spaces are 2 R&L Surround, a 1 R&L Center - Would a sub be placed into the Center?

 

[Pogre]

How did you have all 4 speakers hooked up when the receiver went bad?

*Edit: Just saw this part of your last post.

The smaller ones are into the Front and the large ones into the Surround/Bi-Amp. The sound is good and clear.

I just wanted to make sure you weren't wiring 2 of them in parallel into one channel.

 

[Pogre]

I have sound!
Also I have enjoyed this forum and the willingness to help, and I am learning from this process.

Okay so I have figured it out for the most part with everyones help.
Ran through preamp into Audio 1 - all four speakers and everything through the Yamaha.
Fuses were good on the large. They are not hitting super deep but they are woofers and not subs if I understand correct.

The smaller ones are into the Front and the large ones into the Surround/Bi-Amp. The sound is good and clear.

Now I know when I was running it from my phone it sounded like poop because it was through the wrong input.

I've enjoyed reading about Hoffmans Iron Law as well, thank you.

* Next Question *
Would it be suggested to pull more bass out to get a sub?
A large one is fine, because I am going for a vintage look, and they tend to have larger cases from what Ive seen; luckily I have the space.
On the Yamaha, the remaining speaker spaces are 2 R&L Surround, a 1 R&L Center - Would a sub be placed into the Center?

Lots to unpack here! Why do you have the larger speakers hooked up to the bi amp channels with the smaller ones on front? For that matter, why 4 speakers in that configuration? Are you using surround or 4 channel stereo or..? For stereo music listening 2 speakers are all you need. Having 4 up front introduces a whole new set of problems like comb filtering for one.

Yes a subwoofer will absolutely give you more bass. No, the center channel is not ideal at all. Preferably a powered sub (or a passive one and a separate amp) using a LFE, or subwoofer output on a receiver. Tho I'm thoroughly confused as to what exactly you're using for processing right now and what your goal is...

 

[lovinthehd]

Knowing how you have arranged the speakers would help as well as what sound mode/processing choices you're using on the receiver. You mention one set hooked up at the surround/bi-amp terminals, hopefully you're just using the surround modes in the avr rather than bi-amping (which is more a marketing thing for avrs and intended for speakers with "bi-amp" terminals). Try this article https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring

Subs are the way to go generally for deeper extension than speakers provide,, and are generally just more capable than even most "full range" speakers. Sub box size varies by driver size and box design, not particularly age; ported boxes tend to be larger than sealed. No advantage to old gear when it comes to subs, as subs often weren't available for older gear and often poorer performers than today's subs (vintage merely means old more in audio than anything actually vintage). Modern receivers use sub pre-outs (pre-amplifer outputs) rather than a powered amp channel, so you need an active rather than passive sub when using modern receivers (active means self-amplified). What's your budget?