Marantz 6014 or Denon 3600

[AcuDefTechGuy]

HDMI 2.2 (2018) vs 2.3 (2019) is another difference.

You mean HDMI 2.0 (4K) vs the new HDMI 2.1 (8K).

The new upcoming Yamaha AVRs will be among the first AVRs to feature HDMI 2.1.

NONE of the current AVRs on the market today have HDMI 2.1.

 

[jbrandoff]

Denon being punchier and better for theater and Marantz being more musical.

I would agree Denon punchier but I don't agree that the Denon is better for home theater. There is absolutely a very clear difference in sound. You might wanna demo them both. Sound is subjective.

I hate my Denon X1500, I love my marantz SR7012. Yes they are the same company, and service absolutely sucks. But the marantz sounds so much smoother more real. The Denon X1500 is in your face, and a bit harsh. More speakers is more better. My room is 12' x 13' and I'm set up 7.2.4. with dual svs pb3000.

A couple weeks ago I ditched the Denon and made this room into a concert hall. I was 5.1.2 now just 2 Revel Salon 2's and an Anthem STR power amp with a dac. I subscribed to Tidal and I find myself listening to music more than watching my Oled. My downstairs is the theatre room. I can honestly say, the music end of these 2 avr's will not get you the music stage you might expect.

Wow. Thanks for this!
So is there a dac or pre/pro option in this general price range that would achieve higher musical performance?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So is there a dac or pre/pro option in this general price range that would achieve higher musical performance?

Regardless of whether 50% of people think separates sound better than AVRs, you won't find a pre-pro + amp separates combo that costs the same as a Marantz 6014.

 

[Gmoney]

Wow. Thanks for this!
So is there a dac or pre/pro option in this general price range that would achieve higher musical performance?

Speaker’s better Speakers would

 

[chrysler82000]

Wow. Thanks for this!
So is there a dac or pre/pro option in this general price range that would achieve higher musical performance?

basically, I posted for the first time on this site a few weeks ago. I wanted my theater room to also be a 2 channel sound stage for music. After several conversations with the very helpful audioholics, I decided to just do a second system, I had a second room to do it. I have quite a few pieces of avrs, amps, receivers layin around. I'm using my 20 year old Rotel preamp. Nothing special here, just some inputs for a cd player and tape deck which I plugged the pro-ject dac into. So I can power these huge Revels with the very powerful Anthem. Last night I was runnin up and down the stairs, playing the same tunes between my 2 set ups. They each serve there purpose. My 2 channel is in a totaly different league as my 7.2.4 And yeah this 2 channel system retails for $28k but I have just about the same invested on both systems. Right around $11k each. I bought store demos and pre-owned. Yeah the downstairs has many many many more pieces. But this 2 channel system is amazing. And my 7.2.4 system is amazing. They each serve there intended purpose. Why the loooong response? because my first system was a 14 month project and although my second 2 channel system was pretty much complete in one purchase, I still budgeted and was prepared to drop some coin. If you want the best of both worlds do 2 systems. Shop around and take your time. Demoing can be a fun.

 

[PENG]

Wow. Thanks for this!
So is there a dac or pre/pro option in this general price range that would achieve higher musical performance?

Be careful with subjective opinions. I own products from both D&M, but don't believe my subjective impressions either. Facts/measurements are much more reliable unless you can compare two units side by side and used in exactly the same way.

 

[chrysler82000]

Be careful with subjective opinions. I own products from both D&M, but don't believe my subjective impressions either. Facts/measurements are much more reliable unless you can compare two units side by side and used in exactly the same way.

I couldn't agree with you more. measurements can be important, but what's most important is what I like and what I hear. I demoed paradigm 7f's. They sounded spectacular. Then I asked, can you play some Tool, Metallica, Staind....well, those paradigm still sounded good, but for my listening style I felt the Revel were a better fit. And then you bring them home with nothing to help with the acoustics, so a all new different sound again. When your about to spend a lot of money, you better listen first.

 

[chrysler82000]

Oh yeah. I own the Denon x1500 90 watts and the Marantz SR7012 110 watts. The SR7012 is triple the price of the X1500. I have played them both in my room. My opinion, the denon has nothing for that marantz. To me the Marantz sounds much much better. Again, triple the price. I find the marantz to have a better gui, Ii is also more customizable. I don't believe anyone can claim they sound the same, they just don't.

 

[jbrandoff]

Oh yeah. I own the Denon x1500 90 watts and the Marantz SR7012 110 watts. The SR7012 is triple the price of the X1500. I have played them both in my room. My opinion, the denon has nothing for that marantz. To me the Marantz sounds much much better. Again, triple the price. I find the marantz to have a better gui, Ii is also more customizable. I don't believe anyone can claim they sound the same, they just don't.

Could it be that the Denon is a lower end (15xx) model and the Marants is one of the higher end (70xx) models? Is it a fare comparison?

 

[lovinthehd]

Oh yeah. I own the Denon x1500 90 watts and the Marantz SR7012 110 watts. The SR7012 is triple the price of the X1500. I have played them both in my room. My opinion, the denon has nothing for that marantz. To me the Marantz sounds much much better. Again, triple the price. I find the marantz to have a better gui, Ii is also more customizable. I don't believe anyone can claim they sound the same, they just don't.

I'd say your comparison was flawed personally. Enjoy what you like but saying a brand like Denon or Marantz is punchier or more musical just is not all that believable.

 

[chrysler82000]

I'd say your comparison was flawed personally. Enjoy what you like but saying a brand like Denon or Marantz is punchier or more musical just is not all that believable.

Sound is selective. I clearly favor my Marantz. I bought the Marantz first, then I decided I wanted to put together a less expensive smaller surround sound upstairs. I chose the denon because I wanted a different sound and it has heos. So my Marantz and denon can play the same music, radio,...whatever....at the same time. And punchier, musical were not my words those were peng's words. I just agreed with him.

I scrapped the whole Denon project and focused on music. You (lovinthehd) actually helped me with that decision

And yes jbrand tht's why I mentioned the model numbers wattage and price. I bought an inferior denon compared to the Marantz. For the extra $$ I got an additional "out" for a second sub, and 2 extra powered channels and another 2 extra channels. All in all, $350 for the denon and $900 for the Marantz. The Marantz was the better buy.

 

[lovinthehd]

Sound is selective. I clearly favor my Marantz. I bought the Marantz first, then I decided I wanted to put together a less expensive smaller surround sound upstairs. I chose the denon because I wanted a different sound and it has heos. So my Marantz and denon can play the same music, radio,...whatever....at the same time. And punchier, musical were not my words those were peng's words. I just agreed with him.

I scrapped the whole Denon project and focused on music. You (lovinthehd) actually helped me with that decision

And yes jbrand tht's why I mentioned the model numbers wattage and price. I bought an inferior denon compared to the Marantz. For the extra $$ I got an additional "out" for a second sub, and 2 extra powered channels and another 2 extra channels. All in all, $350 for the denon and $900 for the Marantz. The Marantz was the better buy.

You keep mentioning cost as if it's directly related....it really isn't in this case. Could certainly affect your expectation bias, tho. I'd be screwed if my Denons weren't good with music. Musicality is one of the dumbest terms in audiophilia, tho. YMMV of course. I think you may have misinterpreted Peng, tho.

The additional sub pre-out on the Marantz 7012 is significant in that it has the ability to set level/delay for two different sub positions, whereas your Denon doesn't (but easily could have been used with multiple subs via simple rca splitters, just no separate adjustment of level/delay). The extra features/capabilities are generally what you pay for, tho.

 

[PENG]

Wow. Thanks for this!
So is there a dac or pre/pro option in this general price range that would achieve higher musical performance?

I don't like the term "musical performance" but for argument sake, I would say in the price range of the SR7012, probably not. In the range of the AVR-X1500H, likely yes but would still depend on your power requirements. The fact is, in the audio chain, between the two the only significant difference is, one has the HDAM thing but that is still supposed to be designed for transparency. I have not seen any bench test results that show any quantifiable benefits of HDAM. The same would apply to some of Denon's own, the AL32 being one of those, that is on the digital side while the HDAM has influence on everything.

On the subjective side, that may or may not apply to you. For example one professional review has the following to say about the X1500H:

"In the listening test, the Denon did not hide its origin and played with the typical warm, silky, yet well-resolved sound of the Japanese. At higher levels, the bigger brother AVR-X2500H played a bit more sophisticated. "

and the following about the SR6013:

"In the listening test, the Marantz played typically musically and well - but also in detail, without appearing sluggish. At high levels, the Japanese also remained "gentle" and did not lose his pleasant style." Other reviewers and users will have all sorts of different descriptions obviously, though more will say Marantz has a "warmer" kind of sound, that imo was originated from the old times and continued to spread via internet hearsay, much like how rumors could became "facts" sometimes.

I don't believe any of those flowery words but ymmv, subjective is subjective......that's a matter of fact.

External DACs can improve things, but again it depends.

 

[chrysler82000]

I don't like the term "musical performance" but for argument sake, I would say in the price range of the SR7012, probably not. In the range of the AVR-X1500H, likely yes but would still depend on your power requirements. The fact is, in the audio chain, between the two the only significant difference is, one has the HDAM thing but that is still supposed to be designed for transparency. I have not seen any bench test results that show any quantifiable benefits of HDAM. The same would apply to some of Denon's own, the AL32 being one of those, that is on the digital side while the HDAM has influence on everything.

On the subjective side, that may or may not apply to you. For example one professional review has the following to say about the X1500H:

"In the listening test, the Denon did not hide its origin and played with the typical warm, silky, yet well-resolved sound of the Japanese. At higher levels, the bigger brother AVR-X2500H played a bit more sophisticated. "

and the following about the SR6013:

"In the listening test, the Marantz played typically musically and well - but also in detail, without appearing sluggish. At high levels, the Japanese also remained "gentle" and did not lose his pleasant style." Other reviewers and users will have all sorts of different descriptions obviously, though more will say Marantz has a "warmer" kind of sound, that imo was originated from the old times and continued to spread via internet hearsay, much like how rumors could became "facts" sometimes.

I don't believe any of those flowery words but ymmv, subjective is subjective......that's a matter of fact.

External DACs can improve things, but again it depends.

I go back to my original thoughts. Theatre room, music room. As far as I'm concerned I'm glad to have not chased another avr set up when my main goal was for music. My theater room is impressive watching movies. trying to make this room to be compatible for music just was not going to get me where I wanted to be.

I just jammed out Tool "Fear Inoculum" the drums in this album are damn good

I don't like the term "musical performance" but for argument sake, I would say in the price range of the SR7012, probably not. In the range of the AVR-X1500H, likely yes but would still depend on your power requirements. The fact is, in the audio chain, between the two the only significant difference is, one has the HDAM thing but that is still supposed to be designed for transparency. I have not seen any bench test results that show any quantifiable benefits of HDAM. The same would apply to some of Denon's own, the AL32 being one of those, that is on the digital side while the HDAM has influence on everything.

On the subjective side, that may or may not apply to you. For example one professional review has the following to say about the X1500H:

"In the listening test, the Denon did not hide its origin and played with the typical warm, silky, yet well-resolved sound of the Japanese. At higher levels, the bigger brother AVR-X2500H played a bit more sophisticated. "

and the following about the SR6013:

"In the listening test, the Marantz played typically musically and well - but also in detail, without appearing sluggish. At high levels, the Japanese also remained "gentle" and did not lose his pleasant style." Other reviewers and users will have all sorts of different descriptions obviously, though more will say Marantz has a "warmer" kind of sound, that imo was originated from the old times and continued to spread via internet hearsay, much like how rumors could became "facts" sometimes.

I don't believe any of those flowery words but ymmv, subjective is subjective......that's a matter of fact.

External DACs can improve things, but again it depends.

I go back to my original thoughts and what you were hoping to accomplish. A theatre room, music room all in one with the same gear. I couldn't be happier and more satisfied (for now) ditching the Denon. My theatre room is impressive for Dolby Atmos or DTS:X. Watching movies now is a whole new experience. I literally feel like I'm in the middle of the action. But it fell way short for music. And now with my music set up it couldn't be more obvious.

I just jammed out Tool "Fear Inoculum" it was nothing short of spectacular. The tune invincible was impressive. I paid $13k out the door for a pair of Revel Salon 2's a Anthem STR Power amp, a pro-ject pre box s2 dac, some rca cables and some speaker wire. This cannot compete with the system downstairs in regard to music. The Klipsch RP8000F, Crown XLS1002, 2 svs pb3k when I put the sr7012 into 2 channel is just noise. I can turn this Anthem up, and up, and up, you don't realize how loud it is until you try talking. There is nothing I can do downstairs to even come close to this.

So like I suggested earlier, I tried and I wouldn't try again to chase a 2 channel system in a theatre room if you really want to listen to music the way it was intended to be heard. I can listen to music downstairs and it sounds ok, but I had no idea what I was missing. If your ultimate goal is to have something to be proud of, something to enjoy, something to show off,; stay within your budget, but buy the right gear, piece by piece, until its complete.

The research, the chatting, reading charts, demoing, youtube videos, sharing experiences, (knowing we all don't agree)....it's all part of the experience. Enjoy it

 

[snakeeyes]

HDAM is the Marantz version of the Yamaha Aventage “5th foot” LOL

That is my way of saying Denon and Marantz are using mostly the same parts at Sound United.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

HDAM is the Marantz version of the Yamaha Aventage “5th foot” LOL

That is my way of saying Denon and Marantz are using mostly the same parts at Sound United.

Haha! The 5th foot... nice one. I’d agree they’re about the same.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I go back to my original thoughts. Theatre room, music room. As far as I'm concerned I'm glad to have not chased another avr set up when my main goal was for music. My theater room is impressive watching movies. trying to make this room to be compatible for music just was not going to get me where I wanted to be.

I just jammed out Tool "Fear Inoculum" the drums in this album are damn good

I go back to my original thoughts and what you were hoping to accomplish. A theatre room, music room all in one with the same gear. I couldn't be happier and more satisfied (for now) ditching the Denon. My theatre room is impressive for Dolby Atmos or DTS:X. Watching movies now is a whole new experience. I literally feel like I'm in the middle of the action. But it fell way short for music. And now with my music set up it couldn't be more obvious.

I just jammed out Tool "Fear Inoculum" it was nothing short of spectacular. The tune invincible was impressive. I paid $13k out the door for a pair of Revel Salon 2's a Anthem STR Power amp, a pro-ject pre box s2 dac, some rca cables and some speaker wire. This cannot compete with the system downstairs in regard to music. The Klipsch RP8000F, Crown XLS1002, 2 svs pb3k when I put the sr7012 into 2 channel is just noise. I can turn this Anthem up, and up, and up, you don't realize how loud it is until you try talking. There is nothing I can do downstairs to even come close to this.

So like I suggested earlier, I tried and I wouldn't try again to chase a 2 channel system in a theatre room if you really want to listen to music the way it was intended to be heard. I can listen to music downstairs and it sounds ok, but I had no idea what I was missing. If your ultimate goal is to have something to be proud of, something to enjoy, something to show off,; stay within your budget, but buy the right gear, piece by piece, until its complete.

The research, the chatting, reading charts, demoing, youtube videos, sharing experiences, (knowing we all don't agree)....it's all part of the experience. Enjoy it

Apologies, as I don’t remember following this journey. So are you comparing an anthem connected to a pair of salon2’s with a Marantz connected to A pair klipsch and saying that the salons better sound is attributed to the Anthem? Sorry if I’m way off. Just not sure about what you were saying.

 

[chrysler82000]

Apologies, as I don’t remember following this journey. So are you comparing an anthem connected to a pair of salon2’s with a Marantz connected to A pair klipsch and saying that the salons better sound is attributed to the Anthem? Sorry if I’m way off. Just not sure about what you were saying.

The discussion started with, peng wanting a theatre room AND music room all in one. He wanted to know, Marantz or Denon. I took him down the road where neither a Marantz nor a Denon avr will get him a good sound stage for music. But if you don't know what your missing you can easily assume your not missing a thing. I had no idea how good a sound stage could be till I had one. Much of the discussion was me defending my Marantz over my Denon. I don't like my Denon, and I favor the Marantz. To me, it sounds better, it processes better, it looks better, it's easier to operate, it has more functions. The x1500 will be my last Denon

 

[chrysler82000]

As far as Denon and Marantz being owned by Sound United all under one roof, not one sound though. They are a much different product. Do they share parts? I hope so that's what keeps prices down. Business's acquire business's all the time. You know Amazon has a fantastic 30 day return policy, no questions asked. Buy the Marantz, buy the Denon, compare for yourself. Heck might as well grab a Yamaha while your at it.

 

[PENG]

Oh yeah. I own the Denon x1500 90 watts and the Marantz SR7012 110 watts. The SR7012 is triple the price of the X1500. I have played them both in my room. My opinion, the denon has nothing for that marantz. To me the Marantz sounds much much better. Again, triple the price. I find the marantz to have a better gui, Ii is also more customizable. I don't believe anyone can claim they sound the same, they just don't.

I know, its call "subjective bla bla bla...", so the other side of the coin would say, "I don't believe anyone can claim they sound different, they just don't, and studies, sbt, dbt proved xyz..... bla bla bla.." It' been said so many time, that any such argument would be futile, never ending... Best just go with numbers/bench measurements, bla bla bla.......