Medicare For All

[highfigh]

Senator Elizabeth Warren, Democratic candidate for President in 2020.

Medicare for all - Health care is a right.

No new taxes on the middle-class.

I'm in, you should be too.

And we have an unlimited source of money for this, without taking it by force?

If the population of the US continues to grow at the present rate, how will it be able to support the millions of people who can't bring themselves to support themselves or don't have the skills to make a decent wage? That also begs the question, "Who will be paying for the medical care of those who don't conform to the legal immigration laws?".

NOBODY wants to address the reason for our excessively high medical costs- it's the insurance industry that's causing it. There's nothing said by ANY candidate about this and all they're doing is pandering to people who want the government to care for them but that's not the government's job in this country. The only countries that had governments which provided everything for the people were the old Communist countries and they sucked, in many ways. One area where they did well was education and when people com to the US, they do far better than many US citizens who claim "I can't" and don't finish high school because they offer "it's not diverse enough" and other BS excuses.

I can still remember all the Republicans when I was a kid complaining about LBJ's Medicare, Medicaid plan.

Then they became hypocrites when they all turned 65 and signed up for it. Typical.

It's mandatory for people to sign up at 65- whether they use it, or not, is up to them.

You remember all of the Republicans complaining, as a kid? Let's see some examples.

 

[2channel lover]

I agree that some form of universal health care in the USA is greatly needed.

But I also agree that Warren's proposal to pay for it won't come close to making it possible.

Universal health care cannot be successful without taking on the excessive political & financial clout of the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries. That means defeating the politicians in Washington that they've purchased.
Irv – your protests go too far. Big pharma has for a long time abused & distorted the existing patent laws, getting their hired Washington pols to extent patent law far beyond it's original intentions. That abuse is among the major reasons for excessive drug prices in the US, big pharma's excessive profits, and for the difficulties our health care system now has.

I don't see Elizabeth Warren, or any other present politician, directly facing that problem.

I do as well

Your 3rd sentence is the key.

Obamacare didn't have it all sorted out, but for a largely partisan draft, it came the closest we've seen to Universal Health care in the US.

Big Pharma, and Insurance companies were not on board with ACA because it impacted their bottomline and they never will be imo.

We we're almost there...had Trump took what was there and smoothed out the jagged edges of ACA, he probably cruises into a 2nd term where we can finally figure out immigration.

As it stands, neither are fixed and because of that among other things, there will be a big battle in NOV...good chance we have a new administration...staring the same two problems in the face.

 

[highfigh]

that was truly one of the more BS vid clips I've watched lately. Does any Bernie supporter even begin to understand there is no 'free' !!!!! I'll give Bernie his propaganda due though, he's even got my 10 year old grandson believing in his free this and free that bullshit.

"Start 'em young", says Bernie.

 

[Mikado463]

As it stands, neither are fixed and because of that among other things, there will be a big battle in NOV...good chance we have a new administration...staring the same two problems in the face.

not to mention a real third problem, national debt, the Trumpeter said he was going to 'build a wall, have Mexico pay for it and balance the budget' yet he just authorized , what. some trillion more debt .......

 

[highfigh]

Young people realize that we can be a lot better.

I won't argue this comment for a second, but Bernie and the others are not better. Far better would be for more to understand that they should try to support themselves than to expect it from others. Far better would be for more to avoid a life of crime and violence.

While some college protesters had the right ideas, do you remember the college students who were a giant pain in the ass during the '60s? Guess who's in Congress and want to be President. They sure know how to tell people what they want to hear.

 

[highfigh]

I do as well

Your 3rd sentence is the key.

Obamacare didn't have it all sorted out, but for a largely partisan draft, it came the closest we've seen to Universal Health care in the US.

Big Pharma, and Insurance companies were not on board with ACA because it impacted their bottomline and they never will be imo.

We we're almost there...had Trump took what was there and smoothed out the jagged edges of ACA, he probably cruises into a 2nd term where we can finally figure out immigration.

As it stands, neither are fixed and because of that among other things, there will be a big battle in NOV...good chance we have a new administration...staring the same two problems in the face.

I don't think he could have hammered out any real solutions with the first Congress and now, with the Dems controlling the House, that's still not going to happen.

 

[John Parks]

that was truly one of the more BS vid clips I've watched lately. Does any Bernie supporter even begin to understand there is no 'free' !!!!! I'll give Bernie his propaganda due though, he's even got my 10 year old grandson believing in his free this and free that bullshit.

Agreed.

 

[Irvrobinson]

that was truly one of the more BS vid clips I've watched lately. Does any Bernie supporter even begin to understand there is no 'free' !!!!! I'll give Bernie his propaganda due though, he's even got my 10 year old grandson believing in his free this and free that bullshit.

Actually, I don't think the video clip is BS, I thought it was pretty good. I think there are simply a lot of people, in all age groups, who don't want to take responsibility for their own outcomes. And they've been convinced by Sanders and Warren that the oppressive "billionaire class" Sanders talks about all the time can pay for it. I get involved with conversations with a Sanders / Warren supporters in real life (meaning not here) now and then, and they're always surprised to find out there are less than 1,000 billionaires in the US. Two Googled the count right in front of me.

Sanders is such an ignorant fool that I really think he truly believes his own rhetoric. With Warren I'm not so sure; she's smarter and far more worldly. I think she'll say anything she thinks will get her elected, and it seems like the millennials have figured that out, and that's caused the rush to Sanders. He's authentic. Barf. So is his foolish counterpart AOC. IMO, the greatest damage Trump has done is make some people, young and old, hungry for someone, anyone it seems, who appears superficially selfless. Ralph Nader used to have a similar following.

My frustration with the Democrats is that rather than fix some problems with the current system they seem to want to replace it with a socialist utopia. I think the reason for that is that explaining the problems and solutions with taxes, healthcare, education, and immigration, to name a few, to the general populace who have little or no understanding of the problems or the potential solutions is seen as impossible, so the only thing they can sell is revolutionary change.

 

[pewternhrata]

Of course the young generation is tagging along with him. Hes offering free stuff via the rich, once those are long gone who's gonna have the income to support these programs. If Sanders stands to support his agenda, it is impossible for him to win as he will have to share his votes with those that have less; or will he refuse much like with his own charitable donations, he said something along the lines that it's not his fault he made millions off a book this he shouldn't have to share it with others, Why dont they write successful novels. Hes a joke.

 

[2channel lover]

I don't think he could have hammered out any real solutions with the first Congress and now, with the Dems controlling the House, that's still not going to happen.

1st Congress...that was an opportunity lost. I don't think he tried. imo he was more focused on the wall. But of course it's not happening now.

My big problem with his admin...we had boilerplate of a new healthcare system...instead of tweaking what was there (ACA) and giving it more of a bi partisan face...and THEN moving on to immigration...nothing got accomplished.

In 4 years, we've got a decent economy, but healthcare and immigration are still staring us in the face.

 

[Mikado463]

Actually, I don't think the video clip is BS, I thought it was pretty good.

I based my comment on two particular snippets from it........... the mentioning of 'free college' and the part with the pic of a particular group of losers holding up their 'Tax the Rich' posters

 

[Swerd]

I don't think he could have hammered out any real solutions with the first Congress and now, with the Dems controlling the House, that's still not going to happen.

You have this wrong. Trump never tried to hammer out a real solution for health insurance with his first Congress. And that Congress was GOP controlled! Instead, he tried to repeal the ACA without any heath insurance plan to replace it. There wasn't even a proposal in the works for a replacement. It's no surprise that it got shot down.

 

[ski2xblack]

And we have an unlimited source of money for this, without taking it by force?

You act as though we're not already paying a fortune now, which we most certainly are.

The whole point is to get a system in place that is more cost effective than the prevailing one, which is best characterized as legalized racketeering by the private insurers.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

"It's mandatory for people to sign up at 65- whether they use it, or not, is up to them."

It is mandatory to sign up for Medicare Part A once you enroll in Social Security. You can delay enrollment if you have creditable coverage.

"You remember all of the Republicans complaining, as a kid? Let's see some examples."

I would, but they're all dead.

 

[Irvrobinson]

"It's mandatory for people to sign up at 65- whether they use it, or not, is up to them."

It is mandatory to sign up for Medicare Part A once you enroll in Social Security. You can delay enrollment if you have creditable coverage.

Actually, the decision process can be a bit complex, especially if you are not planning to sign up for Social Security at normal retirement age, have retiree coverage from you or your spouse or both, coverage from a spouse who is still working, are enrolled in a high-deductible HSA plan, or have income during retirement that pushes you into Medicare Part A premiums.

From the USG:

https://www.cms.gov/Outreach-and-Education/Find-Your-Provider-Type/Employers-and-Unions/FS3-Enroll-in-Part-A-and-B.pdf

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Yes, it is confusing.

 

[Irvrobinson]

You act as though we're not already paying a fortune now, which we most certainly are.

The whole point is to get a system in place that is more cost effective than the prevailing one, which is best characterized as legalized racketeering by the private insurers.

Yeah, but as usual Comrade Bernie is over-simplifying and in effect lying about his Medicare For All proposal.

It is true IMO that we pay too much as a nation. And it's not just insurers who behave akin to racketeering, it is hospitals, medical providers, testing labs, imaging facilities, drug companies, pharmacies, and even nursing homes. Pricing of healthcare in the US is completely opaque, which fascinates me. In the 1950s there was so much frustration about opaque new car pricing and manufacturer-dealer collusion that a law was passed requiring window stickers on new cars. The legislation in Congress was sponsored by a senator from OK named Mike Monroney, and the resulting window sticker was popularly called a Monroney Sticker for a long time. Healthcare needs similar transparent pricing and, IMO, non-discriminatory (no negotiation) pricing.

What Bernie is lying about is that he can make services in short-supply free from a buyer's perspective, increase the population of full-access users, reduce the prices received by the providers by 25%, and then assume everyone is going to get a reasonable service level. It's simple economics; if you reduce prices to zero, it causes a far higher level of demand. Not to mention his plan to confiscate intellectual property for drugs in the event companies don't accept the government's pricing offer. But the biggest lie of all is calling free, unlimited universal healthcare with no deductibles Medicare. Medicare is nothing like that, and he obviously called it Medicare For All to give his proposal an air of practicality - we already have a working Medicare program, right? - so that he can build support with the uninformed. Sanders is no better than Trump from an honesty perspective.

 

[panteragstk]

The main reason I don't want socialized health care is because our government is too stupid to do it right. That and the fact that it'd probably screw a lot of people out of a job.

What I want is reform. A long hard look needs to be taken at our current system as a whole and it needs to be regulated so those companies can stop screwing people over. Medical costs are insane and being required to have insurance (that's expensive) to pay for it is a huge scam.

Health insurance is obviously a good idea to supplement costs, but people should be able to choose to not have insurance and still be able to afford a surgery or hospital visit.

I've always gone with cheaper insurance options simply because I never get sick. I've had surgeries in the past, but it's been for very minor things. Those types of surgery should be affordable.

I also understand that things like heart/spinal surgery require a VERY specialized doctor, but back surgery costing $200k is insane. I don't get where those numbers are coming from.

I just want a candidate that understands the issue of health care, but doesn't have social health care as a solution. That and daylight savings time needs to go. So dumb.

 

[panteragstk]

Yeah, but as usual Comrade Bernie is over-simplifying and in effect lying about his Medicare For All proposal.

It is true IMO that we pay too much as a nation. And it's not just insurers who behave akin to racketeering, it is hospitals, medical providers, testing labs, imaging facilities, drug companies, pharmacies, and even nursing homes. Pricing of healthcare in the US is completely opaque, which fascinates me. In the 1950s there was so much frustration about opaque new car pricing and manufacturer-dealer collusion that a law was passed requiring window stickers on new cars. The legislation in Congress was sponsored by a senator from OK named Mike Monroney, and the resulting window sticker was popularly called a Monroney Sticker for a long time. Healthcare needs similar transparent pricing and, IMO, non-discriminatory (no negotiation) pricing.

What Bernie is lying about is that he can make services in short-supply free from a buyer's perspective, increase the population of full-access users, reduce the prices received by the providers by 25%, and then assume everyone is going to get a reasonable service level. It's simple economics; if you reduce prices to zero, it causes a far higher level of demand. Not to mention his plan to confiscate intellectual property for drugs in the event companies don't accept the government's pricing offer. But the biggest lie of all is called free, unlimited universal healthcare with no deductibles Medicare. Medicare is nothing like that, and he obviously called it Medicare For All to give his proposal an air of practicality - we already have a working Medicare program, right? - so that he can build support with the uninformed. Sanders is no better than Trump from an honesty perspective.

I should have waited to post. You said it better than I did.

The dems are worried as hell that Bernie is going to get the nomination. If he does, they're pretty much handing Trump a victory.

People are buying into his pandering the same way they did with Trump last election. I think if Bernie got elected he'd accomplish exactly nothing he's promising. Just like Trump.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Health insurance is obviously a good idea to supplement costs, but people should be able to choose to not have insurance and still be able to afford a surgery or hospital visit.

I agree with everything in your post but this. There is no way with modern medicine that people with the median US income could afford a significant hospital stay on their own.