I agree with absolutely everything you wrote Shady. It was an excellent review.
This is what I wrote this morning before I read what you have written. We seem to have remarkably similar views.
[Actually I'm conflicted on this Atmos issue.
On the one hand true Atmos movies, of which there are few, the system does marginally add to the effect. But movies and TV is really about telling a story. I really think this complexity adds little to telling the story and come to that going above 2 or 3 channels adds little either as far as story telling goes.
What I have noticed is how these four ceiling speakers improve the audio effect of music from concert halls and especially ambient cathedral spaces. This did come as a surprise. I should add that up mixing music in the popular domain, that is muti miked and processed to death it makes it worse and is a definite negative reproduced though upmixers.
Now If I had not had speakers and amps at the ready I would not have bothered with this to be honest.
However it turns out that for me it was worth the effort, as my only expense was wire, conduit and some MDF, paint and four grills.
I'm lucky as my ceiling speakers are absolutely ideal, as they are pretty much a perfect acoustic match for all the other speakers. They have never once drawn attention to themselves and unless you switch them off would not realize their benefit. It seems to me that Dolby do have their preferred layout correct. Also Audyssey does seem to set the levels correctly.
And of course all these spaces have ambiance from the front of the space, if not more so then the rear and elsewhere. So if this upmixer gets it close to correct then you have ambiance form 11 distinct points in a small room.
I have no idea how close the tonal match of the speakers has to be, but my instinct tells me that for the way I use 11 channels it needs to be very close, or the odd speakers will draw attention to themselves.
As I have said before those little JW drivers have been my acoustic truth test for years. They are extremely well balanced speakers with no crossover to muck them up.
So my experience may be very different from others. I just can't imagine that these ceiling speakers with tweeters right in front of the cone can come close to the fidelity of my JW modules. However I don't own any, and reliable data on them is pretty much not to be found.]
Your points about degrading the core sound to get more channels is very well taken. When you look at what systems pass through here, that when you take into account budget and rooms in the average house, then the vast majority of systems would be better off with two, or may be three channels and a sub or two. I say advisedly may be three, as good centers are rare and expensive. I can attest that designing center speakers that are any good is a real challenge.
I think I lost count of the times that I have advised that two really good channels are far better then more inferior ones. Due to my hoarding, being an old man and equipment preservation, I have good two, three and 11 channel systems. Honestly all three give a really good home theater experience. In the three channel system the gain going to three channels over two is actually far more marginal that you might imagine. The biggest challenge of three channel in my view is not making it worse than two channel. I'm certain the latter is quite common and probably prevalent.
Once you get to more then three channels and especially up to 7 and 11, then actually bringing about a real improvement more often that not requires an expensive home remodel. My last theater was part of a remodel we really had to do, as the former layout was not handy at all. The total home remodel was about three times the purchase price of the property. I'll admit that I thumped a real deal on the original purchase buying it out of a bankruptcy and really going toe to toe with the bankers who had repossessed it.
When the time in our lives came to move off the Lake, in order to maintain a good home theater experience it was cheaper to build a new home than remodel a used home for an optimal home theater experience. I firmly believe that is the reality for most wanting an optimal home theater experience. So it is small wonder that it is hard for this technology to really take root among home owners. What I wish is that we would push far harder the good two channel experience which can be done well in most homes, and in all honesty gives you 90% of the loaf. I can't stress enough that wasting money and effort on more than two channels so often results in a downgrade.
I think we are all at fault here. So often we are advising people with limited budgets. We should be pushing the two channel experience far more often and more forcefully than we do. Truthfully we should be cautioning against 11 channel systems, and especially the purchase of receiver with 11 power amps form one power supply crammed in. That for me is a non starter and I have not recommended that to anyone and nor will I. There needs to be far more really well done two channel receiver options available. I think actually that would benefit the industry and everyone. If that were far more the norm we would see good AV in far more homes than we do. In fact it would probably become the norm. After all I remember a time when almost all homes had a better audio system than they do now.
Your point Shady about complexity intimidating people and putting them off is well taken. Add to this how it all looks in the average domestic space and you have the perfect recipe for poor market penetration.
