Subwoofer question??

[Andon]

Hi to all, I lake to ask if anyone know of what sub company exept RBH ( this is the one that I know ) makes product that can be used in Europe and USA meaning 110v -220v? I am planing to relocate and take all my stereo stuff with me. And also I am looking in to replacing my polk lsi 7.1 set up with RBH R55Ti line of products, will that be step up or down?

 

[everettT]

Hi to all, I lake to ask if anyone know of what sub company exept RBH ( this is the one that I know ) makes product that can be used in Europe and USA meaning 110v -220v? I am planing to relocate and take all my stereo stuff with me. And also I am looking in to replacing my polk lsi 7.1 set up with RBH R55Ti line of products, will that be step up or down?

I'd check SVS since they sell in Europe.

 

[Andon]

I'd check SVS since they sell in Europe.

it dose not look lake, I think SVS make different power supply's for Europe market.

 

[lovinthehd]

Perhaps think about passive subs, might give you more flexibility with amps?

 

[Andon]

Perhaps think about passive subs, might give you more flexibility with amps?

That may be a option too but then I may need to spend more money! How good are RBH subs? dose anyone have experience with them?

 

[everettT]

HSU is 110/240 according to their website. I know the amps Seaton uses have both. I'd think JTR would be the same, but you'd have to email Jeff.

 

[lovinthehd]

That may be a option too but then I may need to spend more money! How good are RBH subs? dose anyone have experience with them?

Not necessarily, there's always diy. I assume shipping costs when moving are not an issue? We have a couple forum members using RBH, IIRC @CoryW and @AcuDefTechGuy (and ADTG can act as a dealer, too). Gene's (president of Audioholics) system is RBH based as well (using these).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I only use externally powered subs (AKA “passive” subs). I’ve been using passive subs since I started this hobby years ago.

Amps for subs can be inexpensive these days - example Crown, Yamaha, QSC pro amps.

Quality of RBH subs? As already mentioned, the president of Audioholics Gene can attest to the quality of RBH subs, which have been measured and tested here on AH.

The new RBH S-1212N sub is a monster quality sub for $1K. Just add your own quality reliable amp like a $300 Amp from Crown, Yamaha, or QSC.

 

[CoryW]

That may be a option too but then I may need to spend more money! How good are RBH subs? dose anyone have experience with them?

I have been using multiple different versions of RBH subs. I’ve been able to drop by and speak to Yoda at RBH about them in many occasions. I have both their standard 10” and 12” as well as two nasty little monsters that are twin 1010-SEN/r Reference subs. Even at a very moderate volume setting, the guys doing my roof came down to inquire what was shaking the plywood so severely. It wasn’t even that loud, but at this distance, the wave is fully developed up there.mine are all passive and driven by RBH SA-400 amps.
I have used many Definitive, Infinity older JBL. There’s no comparison to be made.

 

[Andon]

I have been using multiple different versions of RBH subs. I’ve been able to drop by and speak to Yoda at RBH about them in many occasions. I have both their standard 10” and 12” as well as two nasty little monsters that are twin 1010-SEN/r Reference subs. Even at a very moderate volume setting, the guys doing my roof came down to inquire what was shaking the plywood so severely. It wasn’t even that loud, but at this distance, the wave is fully developed up there.mine are all passive and driven by RBH SA-400 amps.
I have used many Definitive, Infinity older JBL. There’s no comparison to be made.

Thank you so much for the input. It is very nice to have a opinion from someone that actually have RBH subs in use. I think I will pull the trigger on two active twelves and get done with it. Any experience with R55ti, R56ci and R55wi??

 

[CoryW]

Thank you so much for the input. It is very nice to have a opinion from someone that actually have RBH subs in use. I think I will pull the trigger on two active twelves and get done with it. Any experience with R55ti, R56ci and R55wi??

I have spent all my listening to their MC (love,love,love MC),signature classic, signature t series, SV series

I’ve been to their factory and played with the new S-1212 sub. They are tremendous. TheIt opening price is below rhe cost for parts. The price won’t stay that low. Best of luck.

 

[KEW]

My Rythmik E15HP has a switch to accommodate both voltages, my Outlaw X13 Ultra does not! Most ID websites offer photos of the amp panel, so it is not too hard to verify for a particular model.

There are pros and cons to subs with built-in plate amps. I assume you have heard many pros of passive sub with external amp. One major advantage of built-in amps with the sub is that the amp is selected specifically for the sub so as to limit output before damaging the sub (or even making bad sounds). As Tom V. of PSA says about his subs: "They are pretty much bullet proof - but don't take that as a challenge!"

Even the low priced ($150 MSRP) Dayton Audio SUB1200 has an amp selected specific to its driver/design such that Jim Wilson had this to say in his review:

Since the SUB-1200 seemed virtually impervious to deleterious behavior I decided to push it with some of the most demanding blu-rays in my collection. To my utter surprise it held its head high and said "no, I will not falter". Most of the really torturous movies I watched weren't quite as fulfilling as they've been with some other subwoofers in the past, but this 'cheapie' never put a foot wrong. In retrospect I probably should have chosen different test material; gut-wrenching bass is not this subwoofers forte, yet I treated it as though it was. To a certain extent it almost became a quest to see if I could make the SUB-1200 lose composure, but I was ultimately never able to do that. It's almost bullet proof in that regard, and I tip my hat to Dayton Audio because of it.

Dayton Audio SUB-1200 Subwoofer Review

www.hometheatershack.com

This is the advantage of letting the manufacturer choose an amp specifically for the sub. You want the amp to limit itself before the drivers are over-driven so even though you may not get the deepest bass at full volume, you are not hearing a loss of composure.
Of course, a better sub will take much more before reaching limits as compared to the SUB1200, but it is nice to have an expert take care if the amp selection.
The RBH fan boys and DIY guys can tell you how they best deal with concerns over what happens if/when their systems get pushed to the limit.

 

[KEW]

The new RBH S-1212N sub is a monster quality sub for $1K. Just add your own quality reliable amp like a $300 Amp from Crown, Yamaha, or QSC.

What does Yamaha offer in the $300 price range?
Last I checked they were pretty proud of their closest competitor to the Crown or QSC amps.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What does Yamaha offer in the $300 price range?
Last I checked they were pretty proud of their closest competitor to the Crown or QSC amps.

If I were buying pro-amps for anything these days, it would be the Yamaha PX3, which retails for $450. But you can wait and keep watch on Amazon for used ones from the Amazon Warehouse. I've seen prices down to about $250 for a "good" condition.

Specs won't be as good as some QSC amps, but will still sound good.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For ported subs, the salient thing for protection is the High-Pass Filter (Subsonic Filter) and Slope in the amp. This cuts off the bass (like below 30Hz, 25Hz, 20Hz, etc.) from going to the sub (bass that you cannot HEAR, but rather FEEL).

For example, the Yamaha PX3 has variable High-Pass Filter and Slope plus a 6-band Parametric EQ.

I've been using passive subs from the first day I started this hobby back in college and never had any kind of damage to my subs.

If your sub is rated for 500W, then use amps that are 250-500W into 4 ohms. Set the HPF or Subsonic Filter to 20-25Hz and Slope to 24dB. If you are really concerned, then set the HPF to 30Hz.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think if it were up to most sub and speaker companies, all subs and speakers would be active (have internal plate amps).

Why? They would make a lot more money.

Of course, amp companies would protest. I guess we wouldn't need AVRs either since the speakers already have amps.

 

[KEW]

For ported subs, the salient thing for protection is the High-Pass Filter (Subsonic Filter) and Slope in the amp. This cuts off the bass (like below 30Hz, 25Hz, 20Hz, etc.) from going to the sub (bass that you cannot HEAR, but rather FEEL).

For example, the Yamaha PX3 has variable High-Pass Filter and Slope plus a 6-band Parametric EQ.

I've been using passive subs from the first day I started this hobby back in college and never had any kind of damage to my subs.

If your sub is rated for 500W, then use amps that are 250-500W into 4 ohms. Set the HPF or Subsonic Filter to 20-25Hz and Slope to 24dB. If you are really concerned, then set the HPF to 30Hz.

I agree that providing a strong input signal below the port tuning frequency is probably the easiest way to kill a ported sub.
However, I think you are not addressing frequencies above the port tune and how to ensure a proper balance between amp clipping (due to not enough amp power) and overloading the sub (due to too much power). Maybe I am over-complicating it, but using a 250 to 500W amp for a 500W rated sub seems like a broad brush for what I perceive as a matter of fine tuning!
I might believe that the manufacturers use some sort of limiters to provide frequency dependent output limits?

I look at active speakers like the JBL LSR-305's and what it takes for JBL to make them bullet-proof and think it is an amp with specific, customized parameters. A subwoofer may be less sensitive to these concerns, but I don't know about that!

Maybe @Ed Mullen could give us some idea of what they do on this count?

 

[KEW]

If I was doing DIY, the plan would be to use a sub design that provides more than I would ever use such that I would never challenge those limits. That would work for me because I am an old fart that just likes to listen to music at reasonable levels. However, we all know that guy who is gonna say "Let's see what this bad boy can do!!!"
However, the biggest issue is we have little idea of what the limits are in the context of listening to a movie. Many will not like your idea of applying a high pass filter without knowing exactly what frequency and how much is needed. You are asking them to give up some of what they paid for (LFE to make your room shudder!) with overly conservative tuning!

 

[lovinthehd]

I look at active speakers like the JBL LSR-305's and what it takes for JBL to make them bullet-proof and think it is an amp with specific, customized parameters. A subwoofer may be less sensitive to these concerns, but I don't know about that!

How are the LSR305s bullet proof? I think I could hurt mine....don't want to try particularly......

 

[KEW]

How are the LSR305s bullet proof? I think I could hurt mine....don't want to try particularly......

It wouldn't be wise to try, but I bet you'd be surprised at how much abuse they will take.
From the manual:

JBL Professional Reliability
Prior to becoming a production-ready design, each 3 Series model is subjected to JBL’s tough 100-hour power test, in which the speaker is required to play continually at full output for 100 hours without failure. This demanding test ensures your 3 Series speakers will deliver years of reliable performance.

Maybe I am overly optimistic, but you know somebody is going to use these studio monitors as on-stage personal monitors or some such. I just think of pro-audio as being a tremendously abusive environment and believe most pro-audio gear is built with safety limits in mind. If you are going to be in the pro-audio business, you don't want to be the company that gets a reputation for failures even if it is for BS applications.

I know my Focal Pro Audio studio monitors simply shut off when I maxed them out. Scared the crap out of me, and it was one hell of a sigh of relief when I shut them off, waited 60 seconds (probably not needed, but I wanted to give them every opportunity to work), flipped them back on and they were like new!