The Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, and Auro-3D Discussion Thread

[VonMagnum]

Also watched It Chapter 2 last night loved the movie but a little disappointed in the mix. The soundtrack sounded way compressed especially on volume had to turn the volume up a bit more to get the same volume and quality as other movies.

Even need to run the center and surrounds a little hot. After that tho it sounded great just for some reason didn't get much overhead stuff

Although the part with the head running around when it goes up on the wall up to the ceiling and attacks from above you could clearly hear the pan from left to overhead and then back down it sounded awesome

I think "IT" is just the opposite. You have to turn it up because it's LESS dynamically compressed (i.e. quiet sections have to be loud enough to be heard so when it gets loud, it can get really loud). But then it's hard to be certain since AppleTV 4K turns everything down (not sure about the UHD Blu-Ray volume) and I end up putting almost all movies at 0dB with it if not a bit higher. I think I watched IT at +3dB. At that volume, the movie was incredible sounding, especially the surround use. I agree there were only a few moments of "direct overhead" height things in the movie (I think I counted 3-4 and at least one was thunder I think), but there was a lot of use of mid-height and height to the side walls here plus fantastic all around (including behind) bed level effects. I think I mentioned I'd have liked a few more direct overhead sounds that stuck out, but as an overall "immersive" mix, I think IT was pretty engaging. That part where the clown screamed at the end sounded like a holographic river of sound coming from behind me, right through me and into the front for a few seconds. Awesome surround effect that i don't think I've heard anywhere else quite like it except maybe that shifting voice in the Dolby "Nature's Fury" demo that snakes it's way up front, but it moves as an isolated voice, not a "river" of sound.

 

[VonMagnum]

I just picked up STAR TREK (2009) in UHD BD with an Atmos retrofit. I think that one will be interesting to try out given Star Trek BEYOND had pretty great Atmos sound.

I believe I'm at 74 Dolby Atmos, 39 DTS:X, and 11 Auro-3D Blu-Ray titles now (more Atmos in streaming from iTunes, etc.)

 

[VonMagnum]

OK, I watched Star Trek (2009) in Atmos. Not bad. Not bad at all, but it was weaker than I'd like with the overhead sounds (not designed for it clearly as I think the effects used were meant to be "diffuse" on older non-Atmos systems since they couldn't really do overhead quite the same way so like many Atmos movies, I think the overhead stuff sounded broader/weaker than it could, but then who knows, maybe my "height" based system doesn't' present it the same way in-ceiling overheads at higher angles would (although movies like Flatliners and Overlord say otherwise to me). But overall surround use was quite good.

I've now had two speaker covers on my front heights get literally blown off the speaker during loud moments. The upper right one went on IT Chapter Two and the upper left front just went on Interstellar during the blast off sequence. PSB speakers seem to have weak friction on the cover pegs (had my bipolar surrounds loosen up the same way before). And since they're tipped downward, gravity was helping as well. I put teflon tape on the right one and put it back up, but I'm out now. Tissues wrapped and stuffed in worked well with those bipolar side heights, but the holes seem too small for that on the front heights or something. What a PITA. I could just leave them off, but they kind of look out of place with all the others covered.

 

[VonMagnum]

OK, I finished Interstellar in Neural X upmixing mode. I have to say it was more impressive in some respects than Star Trek in Atmos as the effects were much better separated (plenty of height speaker use in Neural X mode). The dynamics of that movie are incredible. Not only did it blow my speaker grill off at "near" reference levels (I was watching at -4 dB), but DAMN it would get quiet and loud in some scenes. The quiet scenes made me want to go to 0dB, but I was afraid the speakers grills would be coming off in droves.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

OK, I finished Interstellar in Neural X upmixing mode. I have to say it was more impressive in some respects than Star Trek in Atmos as the effects were much better separated (plenty of height speaker use in Neural X mode). The dynamics of that movie are incredible. Not only did it blow my speaker grill off at "near" reference levels (I was watching at -4 dB), but DAMN it would get quiet and loud in some scenes. The quiet scenes made me want to go to 0dB, but I was afraid the speakers grills would be coming off in droves.

Well once the grilles are off , who cares?

 

[fabiocz]

That sounds nice, but the reality is it's really about the feature set of the upmixer and whether you prefer that sound. The only difference between Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA in a practical sense is the NAME (i.e. they're both lossless encoders so the extracted sound is the same as a WAV file in that sense if it were 5.1 or 7.1, etc.). Now Dolby Digital and DTS are lossy encoders so one could argue which sounds better at a given data rate or whatever, but that still has no real bearing on which upmixer to use as it's still just compression.

Neural X is far more aggressive than DSU and has fully stereo overhead speakers whereas DSU uses just "left and right" for ALL overhead speakers (i.e. there's no front to back separation; they're all just copies of the same overhead left/right sound) so that gives quite a different result for overhead upmixing. In essence, which you prefer is probably more relevant than what name is on the upmixer, IMO. At least that is how I look at it. I use Neural X for movies and DSU for music if I want surround music (some like Auro-3D that have it, but I find it's more of a reverb "DSP-like" mode for upmixing than a surround decoder/upmixer).

And for movies of have Atmos or DTS X, is good use "Direct" = Atmos or DTS X or use a upmixer how Neural X or DSU ?
I ask because in a movie of atmos i try use True HD + Neural x, and i felt the movie more intense, but if i change it, i lost the lossles ? How work the upmixer in a content of have atmos / dts x ? is the same of a content in lossy ?
Because by logic the ideal is always to use the standard mode (Atmos or DTS X)

 

[VonMagnum]

And for movies of have Atmos or DTS X, is good use "Direct" = Atmos or DTS X or use a upmixer how Neural X or DSU ?
I ask because in a movie of atmos i try use True HD + Neural x, and i felt the movie more intense, but if i change it, i lost the lossles ? How work the upmixer in a content of have atmos / dts x ? is the same of a content in lossy ?
Because by logic the ideal is always to use the standard mode (Atmos or DTS X)

Lossy and upmixers are two different things. TrueHD does not switch to lossy because you select the Neural X upmixer. On the other hand, you're getting an upmix of the base 7.1 channels, not the full Atmos mix. Because using the base track foods the overhead information into the base tracks, it can work very well and sometimes better (or at least more aggressive) in some respects than the actual Atmos decode. Only you can decide if you like an upmixer better.

Neural X works differently with DTS:X as it only adds new locations between speakers (whether real speakers or phantom images) while with TrueHD or Dolby Digital or even PCM, its primary goal is recreating 7.1.4 (or greater) with fewer input channels.

 

[fabiocz]

Lossy and upmixers are two different things. TrueHD does not switch to lossy because you select the Neural X upmixer. On the other hand, you're getting an upmix of the base 7.1 channels, not the full Atmos mix. Because using the base track foods the overhead information into the base tracks, it can work very well and sometimes better (or at least more aggressive) in some respects than the actual Atmos decode. Only you can decide if you like an upmixer better.
Neural X works differently with DTS:X as it only adds new locations between speakers (whether real speakers or phantom images) while with TrueHD or Dolby Digital or even PCM, its primary goal is recreating 7.1.4 (or greater) with fewer input channels.

Example on my system: 5.2.4, so when I select Atmos each channel has its right sound, that is, there is no upmixer, when I select true hd + neural x it pulls the lossless 7.1 core and upmixes the x.x.4 ?
If so, it would not be a good practice to remove an atmos to apply an upmixer, as most of the time the original always exceeds "Attempts".
Is my reasoning correct?

 

[VonMagnum]

Example on my system: 5.2.4, so when I select Atmos each channel has its right sound, that is, there is no upmixer, when I select true hd + neural x it pulls the lossless 7.1 core and upmixes the x.x.4 ?
If so, it would not be a good practice to remove an atmos to apply an upmixer, as most of the time the original always exceeds "Attempts".
Is my reasoning correct?

That would be the logical assumption, yes, but the reality sometimes varies as some people mixing soundtracks do a better (or at least different) job than others and I've read many a comment where someone preferred an upmix to the actual (usually lackluster as in hardly using the overhead speakers at all) Atmos track because Neural X puts more overhead (rightly or wrongly).

Some studios also exclude Atmos from the 2K disc or 3D disc, but it's clear they're the same bed mix downmixed as I often have a hard time telling the actual Atmos track (when I buy it separately) from the Neural X upmix as Neural X seems quite good at reassembling it from whatever clues are left (phase, etc).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I just finished watching Netflix’s “Another Life” TV series season 1 in Atmos.

This has the best Atmos overhead sound effects I have ever seen on Netflix.

The overall production budget is low, but at least they did a great job with Atmos.

So thanks to @Gmoney for recommending “Another Life”.

 

[Gmoney]

I just finished watching Netflix’s “Another Life” TV series season 1 in Atmos.

This has the best Atmos overhead sound effects I have ever seen on Netflix.

The overall production budget is low, but at least they did a great job with Atmos.

So thanks to @Gmoney for recommending “Another Life”.

What did you think how season 1 ended? I wasn’t waiting on that.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What did you think how season 1 ended? I wasn’t waiting on that.

Kind of expected. They helped that one planet. The bad aliens retaliated by blowing it up.

 

[Denx4100]

O M G ATMOS IS SOOOO WORTH IT!!!

Finally got around to watching an entire Atmos sound tracked movie and what an experience! My wife and I just watched Annihilation which was a great 1st choice for a couple of reasons. Number one, the movie was actually really good. I tend to love trippy movies and this one definitely falls into that category. What a movie! But the other reason why it was a great choice is it was a movie I had NOT seen before. So the Atmos affects were coming at me unexpectedly because I didn't know what was happening from one scene to the next. That movie is scary as sht at times and the 7.2.4 sound made it even worse lol. I've read about this many times but Atmos really does create a bubble of sound around you. My Polk in ceilings and my old Infinity Beta Surrounds timbre matched perfectly. There are no more individual speakers, just surround sound and its everywhere. My wife said it best, it no longer feels like watching a movie, it feels like you're on set. Thunderstorms are freakin realistic as can be, but what really stuck out for me was the music. They mixed this movie very good. The opening scene has a song playing and the echo effect through the surrounds is so subtle, but yet so beautiful. I honestly felt like I was sitting in the house with them listening to music. Phenomenal. Oh, Natalie Portman, just in case you're a sound geek like us and you secretly hang out here because you love to play around with your mansions home theater, I have to tell you that I am madly in love with you!

For everybody whos already done Atmos you already know what I'm talking about, for anyone "thinking" of doing it, follow Nikes lead and just do it! Even if it sacrifices everything haha.

I must agree with you on the immersive audio of atmos, the sound is more of a bubble of sound in the room!! It's as if my speakers just vanished from the room. I was watching some demo clips from demo land, birds were chirping, and my cat was trying to find them ( she was actually looking up, and around, and she stared at me as if to say " where are they ". I knew right away my 5.1.4 was DEAD ON!!!!!
Atmos is not for everyone, but it puts me right in the scene I'm watching

 

[Denx4100]

Its amazing to me that people don't claim their music system beats a real concert. Let's not forget, a home theater is trying to immolate an actual theater. There was a time when home theater did not exist, all you had was the commercial cinema. In my opinion, the sheer size of a commercial cinema has a lot to do with the experience, sound wise and visually, that cannot be duplicated in the home, I don't care how many DSP's (i.e. movie mode, cinema. etc.) A/V manufacturers try to design. There is something that's just organic about the commercial cinema that you can't really immolate with a receiver.

With that said, some commercial theaters are bad and poorly run. However, Dolby Cinema doesn't fall into that category, they are great. In my opinion, if you are planning on setting up an Atmos system in the home you should use a Dolby Cinema as a reference. They are designed strictly for Atmos, from start to finish, per Dolby's specifications.

When I go to a cinema, I have no choice 100% of the time where I sit! Rarely do I get to choose a center seat, even if I luck out and find one, I'm left at the mercy of the projectionist! The levels are often too loud!!!

In my home setup I have the MLP TO MYSELF!!! my wife can listen to music, and movies on tablet speakers, and she's okay. NOT ME. I have calibrated my system with audyssey x32t ,using 8 locations around my chair. I'm sorry, but no cinema that I'm aware of has a perfect seat for all of those who are watching the movie. Too many times I've been to a cinema where the sound was WAY TOO LOUD!, and I left with a refund. No one is forcing you to set up a theater in your home, so why not leave the posting to someone who wants to share their experiences with Dolby atmos, DTS:x8

 

[VonMagnum]

No one claims to beat a live concert because an FM radio practically beats a live concert... Levels that can destroy your hearing in no time, often distorted and unintelligible lyrics, etc. (musician earplugs help a lot, though). I mean who would WANT to replicate a live concert? I want it to sound like a quality studio album (I did experience that once at a Sarah McLachlan concert in a nice venue, but I had the musician earplugs in; otherwise it would have been too loud).

Most people I've seen comment on Dolby theaters (there isn't a single one within 100 miles of me) have said the sound is GOD AWFUL (Way too loud average levels and poor separation with the side surrounds 2/3 up the side walls 20+ feet overhead themselves. There is no "ear level" sound there. AuroMax had pretty good sound (speakers a few feet above ear level with heights above that and ceiling speakers to boot), but Auro couldn't fight Dolby with all Dolby's hard cash.

 

[Auditor55]

When I go to a cinema, I have no choice 100% of the time where I sit! Rarely do I get to choose a center seat, even if I luck out and find one, I'm left at the mercy of the projectionist! The levels are often too loud!!!

In my home setup I have the MLP TO MYSELF!!! my wife can listen to music, and movies on tablet speakers, and she's okay. NOT ME. I have calibrated my system with audyssey x32t ,using 8 locations around my chair. I'm sorry, but no cinema that I'm aware of has a perfect seat for all of those who are watching the movie. Too many times I've been to a cinema where the sound was WAY TOO LOUD!, and I left with a refund. No one is forcing you to set up a theater in your home, so why not leave the posting to someone who wants to share their experiences with Dolby atmos, DTS:x8

Cool you have a nice "home" theater (note the word "home") and probably set nice up real nice, however it's not IMAX and I doubt you have a larger than life 90ft screen. Every home theater's goal is to try to replicate the cinema, so how could it be better than the real cinema when it's trying to mimic the actual cinema.

 

[VonMagnum]

You don't need a 90 foot screen. You only need to fill a similar amount of your peripheral vision (i.e. you sit closer than at the cinema). It's not hard to get better quality sound either, IMO. Then there's all those secondary bonuses like no one kicking your chair or playing with their phones during the movie or having to pay for expensive crappy snacks when you can eat or drink anything you want to buy at home, etc. I go to the movie theater less than twice a year on average now and with Corona taking off, it'll be ZERO for the foreseeable future.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You don't need a 90 foot screen. You only need to fill a similar amount of your peripheral vision (i.e. you sit closer than at the cinema). It's not hard to get better quality sound either, IMO. Then there's all those secondary bonuses like no one kicking your chair or playing with their phones during the movie or having to pay for expensive crappy snacks when you can eat or drink anything you want to buy at home, etc. I go to the movie theater less than twice a year on average now and with Corona taking off, it'll be ZERO for the foreseeable future.

Oh gosh, don’t even talk about Coronavirus at the theater!

So many pros with a great Home Theater. Another one is the bathroom convenience! Sometimes I may drink too much and need to urinate every 30 minutes.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

@Gmoney you getting your Home Atmos setup soon?

 

[Gmoney]

You don't need a 90 foot screen. You only need to fill a similar amount of your peripheral vision (i.e. you sit closer than at the cinema). It's not hard to get better quality sound either, IMO. Then there's all those secondary bonuses like no one kicking your chair or playing with their phones during the movie or having to pay for expensive crappy snacks when you can eat or drink anything you want to buy at home, etc. I go to the movie theater less than twice a year on average now and with Corona taking off, it'll be ZERO for the foreseeable future.

Yeah not to mention Food Fights in Theaters!!
They do happen ya know I got Caught in the crossfire of one not good. Never go watch that movie Animal House in a theater , Food fight!!