Pre + Pro + Sub..?

[snakeeyes]

This is what confuses me too.

If full signal is still sent to mains, it’s not bass management really. It’s like bass adjustable to sub but no adjustment to main speakers.

Most people would want to only send lows to the sub

 

[sterling shoote]

This is what confuses me too.

If full signal is still sent to mains, it’s not bass management really. It’s like bass adjustable to sub but no adjustment to main speakers.

Most people would want to only send lows to the sub

Well, only low frequency is sent to sub, unless you've got the filter set at upper limit, like 250Hz. What is not clear is if mains are also filtered to match the filter selection for sub, or still carrying full frequency to mains. Experiments with my system suggests whether I set mains to pass above 60HZ or pass full frequency with sub set to receive low frequency below 60Hz, the music/movies sound about the same to me. The experts however tell me when my mains are set to receive above 60Hz that the mains will run easier, producing less distortion, so that's why I have my mains set to receive above 60Hz. At any rate, if I were the OP, I'd get an AVR like the Sony STR-ZA810ES to enjoy stereo with bass management and call it a day.

 

[Pogre]

Well, only low frequency is sent to sub, unless you've got the filter set at upper limit, like 250Hz. What is not clear is if mains are also filtered to match the filter selection for sub, or still carrying full frequency to mains. Experiments with my system suggests whether I set mains to pass above 60HZ or pass full frequency with sub set to receive low frequency below 60Hz, the music/movies sound about the same to me. The experts however tell me when my mains are set to receive above 60Hz that the mains will run easier, producing less distortion, so that's why I have my mains set to receive above 60Hz. At any rate, if I were the OP, I'd get an AVR like the Sony STR-ZA810ES to enjoy stereo with bass management and call it a day.

Having a sub preout with a low pass is better than nothing, but not quite what I'd consider bass management.

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

FYI... If the Manual is in plain English that I think I understand, and being familiar with the settings on my 6013, - as well as my other friends referencing thier similar models... I think it states pretty clearly that the option to 'set speaker to Small forces the 80Hz.' But if I choose Large, I can set it myself - - 40 thru 250 I believe - - (and I'm paraphrasing) So, if that's the case, wouldn't it follow that this LPF is "protecting" the mains by way of "bass mgt" in taking everything 79 and below and shifting it to the Sub(s)..? Maybe the (Pogre/Sterling post above addresses this, I'm not clear...)

I think I follow what you're all discussing but I want to think the manual is telling us this via the "Speaker" * "Crossover" and "Sub" settings. Am I wrong..? Wouldn't be a surprise but I'm sure that's how I read it. Pogre, surely your manual reads similar..?

***
I hate to put two topics in one reply, but if I can just quickly go back to the part where I came round to Snakes opinion of the NR1200 - 2 Channel, and it's 75x2 being just fine for my purposes. ** We'll I asked about the pre-outs and a bigger amp, just to carry the thought out, to what seemed like its logical conclusion. Just to be clear I think probably the 75x2 in this unit is going to work. But I still want to know if I can. - assuming I'm not a moron, going to blow out my speakers... is there a real reason the idea of a bigger amp from the pre-outs is bad thinking, or bad MOJO.? Again, this is a thought experiment so no need to ream me for being foolish, or having "expectations" for wanting more watts... This is for my own edifice really... mostly.

And I'll explain briefly. I think I'm on very solid ground noting that the Marantz 7025 (2x140) is "meant" to go on the Front pre outs of an AVR like my 6013. As I've read, this gives more detail and "oomph" for 2 channel stereo listening, and relieves the AVR of some of the workload in the 9 and 11 channel configurations. This is the same essentially as the 7055. It's (5x140) works with the 6013 (or similar) to bump the default 110 wpc to 140 wpc on each of the main 5 channels.

Coming full circle this thought experiment may come in handy if, and when, I can upgrade speakers. Because let's be honest, I'm never getting a McIntosh or anything like it. I was just making a point because someone posted about it.

So the "thought" would be, if the NR1200 does everything I want and I someday get better speakers, wouldn't I get a decent upgrade simply adding more juice this way...?

Thanks again... Keep the learning going.!

 

[Pogre]

A true crossover (bass management) will blend your speakers and sub together, using both a high pass filter (filters the bass frequencies from going to your speakers) and a low pass filter (filters higher frequencies from going to your sub) for a smooth transition from subs to speakers.

What you're looking at will filter the sub only. It doesn't set a crossover point. The idea there is to set your low pass at 1 octave above the fs of your speakers (as deep as they can play at 3 dB down) and hope for the best.

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

A true crossover (bass management) will blend your speakers and sub together, using both a high pass filter (filters the bass frequencies from going to your speakers) and a low pass filter (filters higher frequencies from going to your sub) for a smooth transition from subs to speakers.

What you're looking at will filter the sub only. It doesn't set a crossover point. The idea there is to set your low pass at 1 octave above the fs of your speakers (as deep as they can play at 3 dB down) and hope for the best.

OK, got it then. The exact dance as the amp in the truck. HPF and LPF.

I guess I just figured that all that Audessey and "computing" going on in there all worked together to accomplish the "Management"

 

[Pogre]

OK, got it then. The exact dance as the amp in the truck. HPF and LPF.

I guess I just figured that all that Audessey and "computing" going on in there all worked together to accomplish the "Management"

It's part of it. The main thing being that crossover point tho. With bass management you have a lot more control.

 

[Pogre]

Hold on Dad, I think I did some assuming. I'm looking at the NR1200 right now and I think it does have bass management.

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

Hold on Dad, I think I did some assuming. I'm looking at the NR1200 right now and I think it does have bass management.

LMAO, well that wouldn't be so bad. Because I want to believe I'm understanding what I'm reading. Both here and in the manual.

BTW don't forget to comment on the other part of the post. RE: preouts and a 2 ch amp.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hold on Dad, I think I did some assuming. I'm looking at the NR1200 right now and I think it does have bass management.

You found a high pass for the speakers? It has a low pass only from what I see. @IansDad88(Don) fwiw some head units have separate lpf and hpf, with most avrs it's simply the setting of the crossover point for the two filters rather than separate control of each one.

 

[Pogre]

LMAO, well that wouldn't be so bad. Because I want to believe I'm understanding what I'm reading. Both here and in the manual.

BTW don't forget to comment on the other part of the post. RE: preouts and a 2 ch amp.

It is surprisingly difficult to find a straight explanation but from what I'm seeing it does not have bass management, only a low pass filter. I will say after reading over the specs it looks to me like a stripped down, lower powered version of your SR6013, minus bass management and various other useful features...

 

[Pogre]

You found a high pass for the speakers? It has a low pass only from what I see. @IansDad88(Don) fwiw some head units have separate lpf and hpf, with most avrs it's simply the setting of the crossover point for the two filters rather than separate control of each one.

No, I didn't. Replied above.

 

[KEW]

FYI... If the Manual is in plain English that I think I understand, and being familiar with the settings on my 6013, - as well as my other friends referencing thier similar models... I think it states pretty clearly that the option to 'set speaker to Small forces the 80Hz.' But if I choose Large, I can set it myself - - 40 thru 250 I believe - - (and I'm paraphrasing) So, if that's the case, wouldn't it follow that this LPF is "protecting" the mains by way of "bass mgt" in taking everything 79 and below and shifting it to the Sub(s)..? Maybe the (Pogre/Sterling post above addresses this, I'm not clear...)

I have to believe that if Marantz has a selection for Small speakers on a stereo receiver, it would not send deep bass to your speakers.
What explanation would you (not you, Ian's dad) have for the reason to designate small speakers. Especially since the selection of frequencies is offered?

Ian's dad, does the manual refer to 80 Hz as the crossover point? Exact terminology could clarify!

 

[lovinthehd]

I have to believe that if Marantz has a selection for Small speakers on a stereo receiver, it would not send deep bass to your speakers.
What explanation would you (not you, Ian's dad) have for the reason to designate small speakers. Especially since the selection of frequencies is offered?

Ian's dad, does the manual refer to 80 Hz as the crossover point? Exact terminology could clarify!

In the manual there's a yes or no for sub plus only a low pass setting. Can't find anything about large/small or high pass filter/crossover. Many two ch units send full range signals to speakers without any choice...and seems many with 2ch setups prefer that for some reason.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Anybody email Marantz? They might know.

 

[snakeeyes]

Anybody email Marantz? They might know.

I’m still not sure if I’m in the short bus or not. LOL

 

[lovinthehd]

Be a shame if you'd have to ask Marantz as if they couldn't simply put the info in the manual....but I suppose possible.....if you get the right person to answer the question, typical customer service is likely clueless....

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

I have to believe that if Marantz has a selection for Small speakers on a stereo receiver, it would not send deep bass to your speakers.
What explanation would you (not you, Ian's dad) have for the reason to designate small speakers. Especially since the selection of frequencies is offered?

Ian's dad, does the manual refer to 80 Hz as the crossover point? Exact terminology could clarify!

Honestly now I'm not sure if I'm conflating the two manuals. I'll double check again tomorrow.


In my 6013 though I'm certain of this. If you set the speaker to small, it automatically selects 80Hz on the Crossover setting, and then grays out all other options. This is the screen grab for the "Speaker Crossovers". Don't yell at me for the settings this was during an experiment.

But the top choice is. Individual or All. If set to Small Speakers on the previous assignment page this setting defaults to "All and 80Hz" down the line with no option to change any of them.

If you set any speaker to Large as I have here during this experiment you get both options still. Individual as I have them set, or still the "All" and 80Hz down the line.

 

[Pogre]

All this fuss and the Denon AVR X3500H has more power and everything else you need, plus some, for only $549...

I think the 3500 is comparable to the SR6013 in performance, specs and features?

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

I apologize.

As I said from the start, I'm simply trying to learn. It seems I've either worn out my welcome here or am possibly too slow.

There have been several folks who I feel tried to help and I appreciate that. I think I've said "Thank you" at least a dozen times. Others have essentially said "just buy this, WTF are you even thinking about "that" for". - And while that may be the best advice, one doesn't learn much that way.

Fortunately for me, in this case, I did learn a few things I think. I was told, just buy "this" (that N1200 from Snake) and I likely will.

But I've also asked about 6 times whether or not it's possible to do something that I think I'm uncertain about, and any of you folks, could simply have said "yes, or no" to... I want asking if it was it wise. I was asking is it possible. I asked because I was confused about things I read and things I was told here.

Regardiess. I'm clearly not getting that answer and it's fair to say this has not been a very beneficial thread to the group.

So shut it down. Accept my apology, and let's move on. I can always go back to scouring YouTube videos or reading reviews, or just friggin figuring it out myself right..?

And thanks for the Dennon info. Heh, it makes me wonder sometimes about what a forum would be like for Cars. Telling everyone who wanted a Lincoln to just buy a damn Ford. Or Cadillac fans to just get a Suburban. Better yet, a Challenger guy who just can't understand he's wrong for liking the Charger. *sigh*. People can be so... Well, you know.

Thanks again.