Pre + Pro + Sub..?

[everettT]

I do think that's part of my learning disability here. Meaning, I listen to the moderately underpowered Onkyo, and it's just a bit limited in power, and frankly the features are kinda weak. And it cost like $200. But it sounds almost like I want just with the sub plugged in and the sub x-over set to 60.

So I start thinking, why not get a decent piece, and a nice 2 channel amp. I see that ND8006 on the internet and think this is way cool. And because my $200 amp and the sub sound half decent I think in my head this must be better.

But suddenly it turns out that the first thing that happened (and not complaining, I need to, WANT to know this stuff) is that everyone starts educating me on the dangers and issues of not having LP x-over control. Then I even had some HP x-over input. And this is all good, and I'm getting it, but I'm bummed there's no easy way to use the thing I thought I liked.

Could we maybe learn me something new a different way as well? I'm not discounting all the valuable info. But I just had a thought I'd like to have answered if possible.

Assuming companies make components meant to work together, can you tell me how that ND8006 is supposed to be set up and used. Now I'm curious about a whole new angle of this process. Forget about the "Ohh that looks cool, I want one...". Instead I wonder. Well, just how the hell does this this supposed to work.

There's more than one way to learn something. I mean if I walked into Best Buy and had that thought I might walk out having bought it. Thinking it was a good fit. That's the advantage of having people willing to donate time and knowledge. One can come here and save a lot of time, money and headache.

I'm the simplest basic terms possible, explaining to a child, I'm really curious about how that thing is supposed to be used.

BTW, I'm researching AVRs and thinking about a way to connect a display. So I'm not trying to stomp this dead thread, but if it seems that way, don't answer. I'll live. Somehow. . I just really, really hate not understanding something. And I don't mean the math or perfection of bass management. Just about how these pieces are meant to go cause it's clearly not what I thought.

Let me just say that it's not really gonna be dangerous so to speak, but you probably wouldn't get the most out of system, which in the end this is what the hobby ends up being about.

 

[Pogre]

So much of this is subjective and a lot of equipment can be used in multiple ways. Start with the ND8006. I looked it up and see it's a nice cd player. I personally would focus my funds elsewhere because I have a pc in the mix as one of my sources. On it I've ripped all of my CDs to lossless files, which are bit for bit digital copies and sound indistinguishable from the original cd. Then I downloaded a free player (Foobar2000) so I can control everything from my tablet and I have my entire library at my fingertips, all organized and all in cd quality. My CDs sit in a box and collect dust, lol.

So you see, there's no one real answer. If I wanted that cd player I would consider it along the lines of audio jewelry and not expect an nth better performance or boost in sound quality. I would connect it to my SR6011 and integrate it into my current system and enjoy.

To clarify, are you considering setting up a second system and want to explore separates? A 2 channel only system in a different room or something? Or are you wanting to replace or upgrade the existing? What exactly is your end goal? We like to get all up in your bid'ness here so we know every detail and angle. I see guys spend all kinds of money then come here and wonder why it doesn't sound better. Often because of getting hung up on the stuff that has the least impact or read somewhere that you "need" a separate dac for true hi if sound or "xxx" brand has a transformer in the wrong place...

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

The SR6013 is a very nice receiver. I have the SR6011 and I really like it. I think I commented on that in your other thread.

I have nothing really to add atm other than to say I have a 6012, and it’s been fantastic is 2ch and all surround modes. I do youse a Yamaha pro amp on my mains, but I’ve really been enjoying this receiver.

 

[TLS Guy]

It's a conundrum, music producers want, it appears, to confine us to a stereo experience and yet we're lured to multi-channel systems for which there is relatively little multi-channel music media. Of course I see the appeal of stereo receivers these days, since most music streaming is stereo. Seems Marantz almost has it right. Fit the receiver with a DAC, Airplay support, and sub/mains filters for a very compelling product. BTW, how's your new Marantz Pre-Pro working out for you. I've been thinking about supplementing my Sony TA-E/TA-P9000ES units with the Marantz model you bought, although so far, Airport Express and an OPPO-205 have precluded an absolute need for a more up to date Pre-Pro.

I like it very much. The picture with the LG OLED is superb. It has plenty of HDMI and analog inputs. The biggest surprise has been the new upmixers especially the Dolby. I was reluctant to put in ceiling speakers. Aron Caryl who is the owner of Westco, who placed tech tubes all over the house and placed the CAT 6 and coax cables talked me into it. As I have those fabulous JW full rangers about and lots of surplus amps, it was not a big issue for me. Sometimes it helps to be somewhat of a hoarder.

Anyhow I don't have any Atmos material yet, but the new Upmixers that use all 11 speakers are phenomenal and to my surprise turned out to be a massive upgrade. I will report on this on my build thread rather than derail this one.

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

So much of this is subjective and a lot of equipment can be used in multiple ways. Start with the ND8006. I looked it up and see it's a nice cd player. I personally would focus my funds elsewhere because I have a pc in the mix as one of my sources. On it I've ripped all of my CDs to lossless files, which are bit for bit digital copies and sound indistinguishable from the original cd. Then I downloaded a free player (Foobar2000) so I can control everything from my tablet and I have my entire library at my fingertips, all organized and all in cd quality. My CDs sit in a box and collect dust, lol.

So you see, there's no one real answer. If I wanted that cd player I would consider it along the lines of audio jewelry and not expect an nth better performance or boost in sound quality. I would connect it to my SR6011 and integrate it into my current system and enjoy.

To clarify, are you considering setting up a second system and want to explore separates? A 2 channel only system in a different room or something? Or are you wanting to replace or upgrade the existing? What exactly is your end goal? We like to get all up in your bid'ness here so we know every detail and angle. I see guys spend all kinds of money then come here and wonder why it doesn't sound better. Often because of getting hung up on the stuff that has the least impact or read somewhere that you "need" a separate dac for true hi if sound or "xxx" brand has a transformer in the wrong place...

Thanks again Pogre, and every one else for thier input and help. Heh I just don't have a very good track record on this forum do I..? I always learn something, but I also tend to end my thread feeling that I just can't do what I want and that's frustrating. With so many ways to do something, I often feel there's an answer, but I'm just not getting to it. And don't get me wrong, it's not criticism. Not of you all or the forum. And if I'm honest it's probably my fault for not knowing enough.

I'll briefly use your 1st paragraph as an example then I'll jump to the last to get back on track of you want. I think most folks have bailed on this thread. ** So of course your streaming system makes perfect sense. And I do in fact have hundreds if not thousands of songs ripped, DL'd or otherwise obtained during the P2P heyday of yesteryear. But the simple truth is I just don't listen that way. Not 100% sure why but I don't. Could be a few things. One I think is that sometimes I really just want to pop in my CD and hear the songs like I did exactly like when I bought the album 40 years ago. Each song, in order, and spaced exactly as intended. ie: Lovin, touching, squeezing-City of the Angel's... Among others. This might be stupid to the experts here, but it is what it is. I like my CDs and for those I don't have or when I'm in a freewheeling mood, I have a "Favorites" list in Tidal (FLAC Level stream) with 400 various songs I just left shuffle.

And this is an important, if ridiculous to many here, distinction. We all listen how we like. But also, I'm not unteachable, and I take your input. Last time here you all told me to return an item I bought... and even though I liked it just fine, I did as instructed. I'm completely open to suggestion. I never really sorted that issue out but at the time I took the advice. I'm thinking the same is happening again.

***
So, anyway on to the last. I've repeated this a few times but my long winded TLDRs and some responses took a bit of a winding road to get here. But was all good stuff. If you're still interested though...

My original query was fairly simple. I was confused about why these separate components didn't seem to have a proper way to connect a sub to a system. Cause I only saw, shopping or reading reviews, an actual "sub out" on integrated amps of limited power. And I understand power. I know 12 wpc tubes can best a 80 wpc class "whatever" and I know THD and S/N matter. - closing that off for now because I think I have reply I could try on the thread (Thanks again..). So anyway yeah that stated things. Because I prefer a sub, even in my 2 channel listening. I have Bookshelf and Floorstanding speakers and I just prefer the sound. In memory of Marie Fredriksson and Roxette, in my house listening to "You've got the look" without a sub feels like I'm missing a whole piece of the song. As much as I like them, my Klipsch R-820Fs connected to that Onkyo TX-8140, just don't make that thump.

And yes, linking back to my other thread you may remember...

* I "want" a simple small new listening area. Completely removed from my Zone 2 on the 6013.
--------
* I prefer the sound I get using a sub, and I have one. A simple powered Klipsch 12
* Mains are the R-820Fs
* My only current piece outside of my AVR is that Onkyo TX-8140 (2015 and VERY limited direct streaming, Bluetooth is the only real option. And 70 or 80 decent wpc depending on what you read. I've seen both. Not sure why.
* I like listening to my CDs. My actual physical CDs sometimes.
------
What I want, or thought I wanted:
- A better component to both stream and play a CD
- A 2 Channel Amp that won't ever strain or sound strained driving those mains.
***
Being a Marantz fan, I thought there were a couple options here to attach one of thier "pre units?" to a Marantz 7025 (2 CH, 140 WPC)

And that may be a crap setup to folks here, but we have to keep in my my goal. Just like you asked. I'm only going to impress myself. It's a simple small room, and each of the products I read up on (I thought) had some sort of reference to bass control.

But most here are of the impression I need much more, better control /ability to manage the bass. And understandably. But again. It's just me. Using just my ears. No math, almost certainly no acoustic panels, or $100 cables. I'll definitely decouple any sub from the floor. But I hesitate to think for "MY" listening I'll need more.

Finally as this turned into another TLDR... If anyone is still reading it should be clear, I like Klipsch and I like Marantz. Hey I'm a simple guy. Take that any way you want in not easily offended. I'm also fairly well understanding of business. Marantz like any audio company spends time, money, R&D, Engineering, and Marketing, blah, blah, blah... To sell thier equipment, and I guarantee whenever possible sell 2 or more items that are intended if not designed to work together. I'm sure we all agree. So they're at my price point. They make items that do what I want. But my advice on this forum positively relating to any Matants product I've mentioned is limited to my AVR (6013.). And that is why I often end up confused. Again this isn't criticism. But just like you (Pogre) and I stream differently, I still highly regard your opinion. On the other hand, when I mention a Marantz this, or Marantz that, nobody seems to ever think these are good choices.

Damn, I'm going to have a reputation, if I don't already for writing too damn much. I think most will just ignore these things. Anyway, sorry for that. It's never my intention.

Thanks again to everyone for input, and Pogre, brother if you're still here, and have a thought, I'll damn sure be reading it.

 

[Pogre]

Thanks again Pogre, and every one else for thier input and help. Heh I just don't have a very good track record on this forum do I..? I always learn something, but I also tend to end my thread feeling that I just can't do what I want and that's frustrating. With so many ways to do something, I often feel there's an answer, but I'm just not getting to it. And don't get me wrong, it's not criticism. Not of you all or the forum. And if I'm honest it's probably my fault for not knowing enough.

I'll briefly use your 1st paragraph as an example then I'll jump to the last to get back on track of you want. I think most folks have bailed on this thread. ** So of course your streaming system makes perfect sense. And I do in fact have hundreds if not thousands of songs ripped, DL'd or otherwise obtained during the P2P heyday of yesteryear. But the simple truth is I just don't listen that way. Not 100% sure why but I don't. Could be a few things. One I think is that sometimes I really just want to pop in my CD and hear the songs like I did exactly like when I bought the album 40 years ago. Each song, in order, and spaced exactly as intended. ie: Lovin, touching, squeezing-City of the Angel's... Among others. This might be stupid to the experts here, but it is what it is. I like my CDs and for those I don't have or when I'm in a freewheeling mood, I have a "Favorites" list in Tidal (FLAC Level stream) with 400 various songs I just left shuffle.

And this is an important, if ridiculous to many here, distinction. We all listen how we like. But also, I'm not unteachable, and I take your input. Last time here you all told me to return an item I bought... and even though I liked it just fine, I did as instructed. I'm completely open to suggestion. I never really sorted that issue out but at the time I took the advice. I'm thinking the same is happening again.

***
So, anyway on to the last. I've repeated this a few times but my long winded TLDRs and some responses took a bit of a winding road to get here. But was all good stuff. If you're still interested though...

My original query was fairly simple. I was confused about why these separate components didn't seem to have a proper way to connect a sub to a system. Cause I only saw, shopping or reading reviews, an actual "sub out" on integrated amps of limited power. And I understand power. I know 12 wpc tubes can best a 80 wpc class "whatever" and I know THD and S/N matter. - closing that off for now because I think I have reply I could try on the thread (Thanks again..). So anyway yeah that stated things. Because I prefer a sub, even in my 2 channel listening. I have Bookshelf and Floorstanding speakers and I just prefer the sound. In memory of Marie Fredriksson and Roxette, in my house listening to "You've got the look" without a sub feels like I'm missing a whole piece of the song. As much as I like them, my Klipsch R-820Fs connected to that Onkyo TX-8140, just don't make that thump.

And yes, linking back to my other thread you may remember...

* I "want" a simple small new listening area. Completely removed from my Zone 2 on the 6013.
--------
* I prefer the sound I get using a sub, and I have one. A simple powered Klipsch 12
* Mains are the R-820Fs
* My only current piece outside of my AVR is that Onkyo TX-8140 (2015 and VERY limited direct streaming, Bluetooth is the only real option. And 70 or 80 decent wpc depending on what you read. I've seen both. Not sure why.
* I like listening to my CDs. My actual physical CDs sometimes.
------
What I want, or thought I wanted:
- A better component to both stream and play a CD
- A 2 Channel Amp that won't ever strain or sound strained driving those mains.
***
Being a Marantz fan, I thought there were a couple options here to attach one of thier "pre units?" to a Marantz 7025 (2 CH, 140 WPC)

And that may be a crap setup to folks here, but we have to keep in my my goal. Just like you asked. I'm only going to impress myself. It's a simple small room, and each of the products I read up on (I thought) had some sort of reference to bass control.

But most here are of the impression I need much more, better control /ability to manage the bass. And understandably. But again. It's just me. Using just my ears. No math, almost certainly no acoustic panels, or $100 cables. I'll definitely decouple any sub from the floor. But I hesitate to think for "MY" listening I'll need more.

Finally as this turned into another TLDR... If anyone is still reading it should be clear, I like Klipsch and I like Marantz. Hey I'm a simple guy. Take that any way you want in not easily offended. I'm also fairly well understanding of business. Marantz like any audio company spends time, money, R&D, Engineering, and Marketing, blah, blah, blah... To sell thier equipment, and I guarantee whenever possible sell 2 or more items that are intended if not designed to work together. I'm sure we all agree. So they're at my price point. They make items that do what I want. But my advice on this forum positively relating to any Matants product I've mentioned is limited to my AVR (6013.). And that is why I often end up confused. Again this isn't criticism. But just like you (Pogre) and I stream differently, I still highly regard your opinion. On the other hand, when I mention a Marantz this, or Marantz that, nobody seems to ever think these are good choices.

Damn, I'm going to have a reputation, if I don't already for writing too damn much. I think most will just ignore these things. Anyway, sorry for that. It's never my intention.

Thanks again to everyone for input, and Pogre, brother if you're still here, and have a thought, I'll damn sure be reading it.

All that typing and still I'm confused a little. I too prefer my music in stereo (with a sub) so that's how I listen to it. I never listen to music in multi channel. Most of us do...

If you like handling your cds then buy a cd player. Find one you like the looks of and get it. The one you linked looks fine. They're all going to perform the same as far as audio quality goes. The same can be said for separate amps, stereo receivers or AVRs. You're not going to hear much, if any, improvements going from one to the other. The one you already have should do the trick but if you want a Marantz by all means get a Marantz. It will perform just as well. Just don't expect the clouds to part and sunbeams of pure beautiful sound to come pouring forth. If you're using the same speakers you can expect the same performance no matter what you're using to power them. So again, pick what appeals to you the most and get it. If you want a sound quality upgrade that's in your speakers.

Don't even get us started on expensive cables. That's probably the biggest snake oil ripoff in the entire industry.

 

[Pogre]

If you want a full blown 2 channel system with a sub and separates or something then we can talk that too. Like I said, the cd player you linked should work just fine. You seem to want to avoid an avr but want to include a sub in the mix. An AVR will offer about the best sub integration possible. There are some integrated and stereo receivers that offer some sort of bass integration but they're few and far between.

You and I are in 2 different world's I think. I'm a little more focused on bang for buck and best performance possible. Not that I don't appreciate a little bling, far from it, but if I were budgeting for a separate room, stereo only setup I'd want something that sounds special. That starts with speakers. I would get the best speakers my budget would allow, then be frugal with the electronics. I think you're kinda going the opposite route with okay speakers and you're trying to elevate them with electronics.

 

[lovinthehd]

How does a 12wpc tube amp best a more powerful ss amp? Just your preference for tubes? Why not just get a tube amp?

 

[Mikado463]

How does a 12wpc tube amp best a more powerful ss amp? Just your preference for tubes? Why not just get a tube amp?

12 wpc, why mess with with so little when you can step to the plate for a pair of these babies !

New McIntosh MC901 Dual Mono Amplifier - AudioAficionado.org

New McIntosh MC901 Dual Mono Amplifier McIntosh Audio

www.audioaficionado.org

Bring your checkbook.........35k for a pair !!!!!

 

[Pogre]

I'm still absorbing your post and

How does a 12wpc tube amp best a more powerful ss amp? Just your preference for tubes? Why not just get a tube amp?

Yeah I was wondering about that one too, but I think I've already bitten off more than I can chew... lol.

 

[Mikado463]

How does a 12wpc tube amp best a more powerful ss amp? Just your preference for tubes? Why not just get a tube amp?

to lovin's point, tube amps, while I love many of them, low powered or what is often referred to as 'flea watt' amps are only good for ultra high efficiency (+100) speakers.

 

[lovinthehd]

to lovin's point, tube amps, while I love many of them, low powered or what is often referred to as 'flea watt' amps are only good for ultra high efficiency (+100) speakers.

Altho there are a lot of claims on the internet that tube watts are more powerful than ss watts Easier on the ears when clipping, tho....

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

OMFG, Guy's I'm sorry. LOL

I was going on and on "stream of consciousness" typing and as soon as I scrolled up to start editing the website crashed... I didn't even know that it posted. I had intended to Edit and spellchecker, and EDIT...!

The "12 wpc Tube" comment was supposed to be an example/metaphor for understanding that there are differences in power not always measured accurately in the number assigned. I could have worded that better. But imagine the Car Audio salesman working a "mark" trying to sell him a 6,000 WPC - high THD, bad S/N piece of sh1t - when in fact a proper Alpine 500 WPC at .005 THD "Clean Watts" IS the sh1t..!

And that was probably going to be cut in the edit. But I think you know what I mean. Unless this Car Audio phenomenon doesn't exist in Home electronics. Though I'm fairly certain it does.

Hehe... Kinda funny from that whole mess this got all the attention.

Back to basics though... It's true I'm not trying to squeeze pennies. And while I'm clearly not the guy ignoring everyone's advice, it's clear that folks have opinions. For example the "buy a CD player" or "just use your bluray...". Those things obviously make sense. But am I really that wrong to just want to buy 2 pieces of equipment from a brand I like..?

That was the point of saying I have bad luck in the forum. Everything I think I want... Well, it turns out everyone hates the idea of it... LOL

In the end, I have a damn near featureless $200 stereo with (2015 tech and crap antennas) powering my speakers now, and honestly I have no problem spending $1500 - 2k on upgrading that I can perfectly well enjoy over the last 20 years or so of my life, assuming nothing dies before I do. Ha...

These are no clouds parting, or angels singing through these things... But I have little doubt they'll sound good to me. And will do what I want using newer better tech. I just wanted some advice on which pieces to get and how to put em together.

Side note, I'll rent my soul out for a McIntosh... But it would be wasted on me. Which goes back to the point I was trying to make. Would anyone doubt that a 50 WPC McIntosh would not sound better, even maybe on my speakers than the 140 WPC amp I've been referencing..? Surely those many extra thousands of dollars would be hard and felt by most anyone, on any decent speaker.

 

[lovinthehd]

Meh, watts are watts, it's a measurement....so as long as the measurements have the same parameters they're simply comparable and if they're on a different basis they're not so comparable. Tubes are just different than ss in a few ways....but not in watts, they're generally just not as powerful in that measurement.

Since I've ripped my cd's I only play the discs that are hard to rip, like bluray/SACD, like Pogre I stream the ripped cds thru foobar2000. Your description of playing an optical disc is similar to those who prefer playing vinyl discs, tho

Brands are just that, brands. Marantz is part of a large company and even has a sister brand that is made with largely the same components in the same factories (Denon, they're both owned by DEI/Sound United). The original Marantz is long gone. I have nothing against Marantz particularly except that they tend to be simply priced higher than the Denons as a marketing thing. Their power amps don't appeal much unless you get a killer price. They do have pre-pros whereas Denon doesn't, tho so that's something in your particular search.

Overall I think you expect more differences in electronics than actually exist....

 

[Pogre]

But am I really that wrong to just want to buy 2 pieces of equipment from a brand I like..?

Nope, not at all. Just wanna find out what your expectations are with whatever pieces you decide to buy and help adjust them if I can.

The "12 wpc Tube" comment was supposed to be an example/metaphor for understanding that there are differences in power not always measured accurately in the number assigned. I could have worded that better. But imagine the Car Audio salesman working a "mark" trying to sell him a 6,000 WPC - high THD, bad S/N piece of sh1t - when in fact a proper Alpine 500 WPC at .005 THD "Clean Watts" IS the sh1t..!

Inflated specs are a thing for sure, but fairly easy to spot with a little homework. As far THD and S/N specs go, anything beyond our threshold of hearing becomes inaudible so the numbers mean less to me as they get "better". After a certain point a better number doesn't necessarily equate to better sound. Great for marketing tho...

In the end, I have a damn near featureless $200 stereo with (2015 tech and crap antennas) powering my speakers now, and honestly I have no problem spending $1500 - 2k on upgrading that I can perfectly well enjoy over the last 20 years or so of my life, assuming nothing dies before I do. Ha...

A good AVR is packed with features, offers seamless subwoofer integration and can easily be expanded upon with additional amplification if you get one with preouts. If I were you, I'd put A LOT more focus on speakers and a subwoofer. No matter what build quality, brand, style or power capabilities of any amplifier you buy is going to make the speakers you have now sound any different. If you really want something special get your speakers sorted first. I get that you want something new and cool to look at and play with but I'm assuming you also want it to sound amazing, no? Or are you wanting to spend hundreds or thousands on a strictly visual upgrade?

Side note, I'll rent my soul out for a McIntosh... But it would be wasted on me. Which goes back to the point I was trying to make. Would anyone doubt that a 50 WPC McIntosh would not sound better, even maybe on my speakers than the 140 WPC amp I've been referencing..? Surely those many extra thousands of dollars would be hard and felt by most anyone, on any decent speaker.

An any wpc McIntosh amp would be a waste of money with what you have and would sound no better whatsoever. At all. In fact it's an even stronger argument not to get one, lol. If you're gonna talk spending McIntosh money you seriously need to up your speaker game. Even the most deluded of myth believing, Kool aid drinking cable worshipping ampliphiles will tell you to always start with your speakers first.

 

[snakeeyes]

Okay I’ll try to take a guess at what would work well. There’s a few themes going on here

IMHO, I would update the sub to HSU or Monolith and do a Denon 3500 or 4500 or another Marantz 6013 on sale even though it’s for 2.1 or 2.2. You will need bass management. A 3500 for $600 would sound just as good as a 6013 for $900 but it’s your money.

I also see (like a few others here) you probably moving away from your current speakers for even better sound at some point for music listening but probably not immediately (if I’m understanding what you are saying ). If you are thinking seriously now to replace the speakers, you focus there first.

Good luck!

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

Always, I appreciate all the input. I do think my limited knowledge plays a role here as well as my inability to "forum" properly. I'm going to attribute most of this to lovin's comments. As I've gotten that impression from responses, but I don't feel it's true at all. I really don't expect that much at all. - Consider the consensus that I need better speakers yet I've consistently stated that these while apparently "lame" are a vast improvement over the prior set. Or the nothing prior. And they were a gift, not purchased. So... Not to sound defensive, but, I can't expect all that much if I'm not complaining about these. But I did consider that since I have them, I might as well get better components, than just buying more speakers as a first step.

99% of resposes tell me my speakers are poop, but even understanding that, replacing them now wasn't my goal.

Also I have to say that apparently there IS in fact a huge difference between car Audio and Home electronics. Because there are millions of people driving around with a $99 Kenwood Head Unit and some version of a 6000 wpc lying ass piece of crap amp. I know this for a fact. So for now let's just say I was completely wrong in my whole "watts" comment.

I do in fact understand all about Marantz not bring that of yonder year, Any more than my Chinese built Klipsch aren't coming out of Arkansas. Like I did I know about some big of business. And with 15 years in Automotive I understand sister brands just fine. Truth is the very reason I own the 6013 is because of the newly released Denon 6300x something or other this year..? The new 13.1 that came out at $1100 in July or August..? I forget now. I actually ordered that..! But 6 weeks later, while still waiting for the charge on my card and the shipment... Well that's when I find the Marantz unit gone on sale. That day I canceled the DE non order and that same week I had torn down my old system and re-run all new 12/14ga wires to my speakers. And this 6013 as much as I like it had less power I think, and definitely fewer features.

Just trying to illustrate that I don't think I "expect" more... And please remember guys. I keep saying I'm ignorant, and while I do know some things... The point is this. I also realize what I don't know.

Lastly, thanks again for Snake..! As I said before, I AM taking this all in and that reply might just be a bingo. I had already been convinced on the AVR but I honestly hadn't considered just buying another 11.1.1 AVR to run only as a Stereo with a CD player. I like that idea a lot actually...!

Just one final note. Of why I hadn't maybe considered this, and or why my original components confounded everyone...

PA3 Power Amplifier From IOTAVX

Set within a relatively small footprint, Paul Rigby reviews this budget power amp Unlike audiophiles, hi-fi equipment is quite anti-social. We humans might enjoy lumping components together under the same chassis but if you actually took a minute to ask a DAC (30-40 minutes and a couple of pints...

theaudiophileman.com

Every day... And I mean EVERY day. My day starts with a review of my feed and my daily constitutional and this article is in some form or another repeated over and over. In particular the party about separates and things together making noise... Now maybe that's all just BS, or maybe it's real but just way, WAY above my station. But again, knowing business, they're seeking these things at these price points for a reason. Of course that doesn't mean they're anything more than a cash grab as companies create the demand and then fill it for a useless item. But I swear I've read this a million times. "Why pay for Video tech in your Audio equipment, especially when it's just gonna make noise all being in the same box..!"

So yeah... I admittedly come from ignorance, but it's carefully fed ignorance delivered to me daily.

I've written too much again and I didn't even get to some of Pogres good observations. But again, thanks to everyone. I swear I'm learning... I'd be disappointed if you really think I'm expecting too much or not takin in all your giving. - It's just that for this exercise, the speakers are set and I'm paying for features I want.

And if it wasn't clear, that whole "Why can't I just have what I want..." line was supposed to be sarcasm with me shaking my fist at the heavens for denying me a simple solution. **As always sorry for the excess of words and spelling... I've no time to edit right now. I'm late for an MRI at the VAMC..!

Oh one last thing. Just an FYI. I do NOT have money to throw away. But I am not married, I am retired, and my son is Grown. So I don't want to waste money, but I'm always willing to pay a bit more for what I want if it suits my needs. This might be another reason this came out like it all did. That one comment about spending money just for the asthetic look if what I want, might have hit closer to home than I would have thought

-Don

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

Okay I’ll try to take a guess at what would work well. There’s a few themes going on here

IMHO, I would update the sub to HSU or Monolith and do a Denon 3500 or 4500 or another Marantz 6013 on sale even though it’s for 2.1 or 2.2. You will need bass management. A 3500 for $600 would sound just as good as a 6013 for $900 but it’s your money.

I also see (like a few others here) you probably moving away from your current speakers for even better sound at some point for music listening but probably not immediately (if I’m understanding what you are saying ). If you are thinking seriously now to replace the speakers, you focus there first.

Good luck!

Marantz NR1200

Slimline stereo receiver with built-in Wi-Fi®, Bluetooth®, Apple® AirPlay® 2, HDMI, and HEOS

www.crutchfield.com

Proof that I listen..!

 

[snakeeyes]

Marantz NR1200

Slimline stereo receiver with built-in Wi-Fi®, Bluetooth®, Apple® AirPlay® 2, HDMI, and HEOS

www.crutchfield.com

Proof that I listen..!

I don’t think NR1200 has bass management.

Edit: I was incorrect. This new 2019 model slim line Marantz NR1200 does have bass management. My mistake.

 

[lovinthehd]

Not trying to beat you over the head with it, Ian. Just many think electronics are a major contributor these days to sound quality and generally they're not, could well be different from car audio world altho my Kenwood head unit with silly watt ratings as well as the two power amps also with silly ratings I've got hooked up to its pre-outs still do a pretty good job with the speakers/sub I've got in my van. Putting serious hifi in my van would be silly, tho...just a poor environment.

I can appreciate trying to stay with speakers you like, too, but that is where sound quality really does change. I can appreciate being on a budget in retirement, too....me, too.

This is always a handy graphic for expressing the sentiment you mentioned