Monolith 7x200 amp vs ... competition? (Looking for experienced amp advice)

[Danzilla31]

I

Just an update. To all you guys who input ideas

I hope I didn't do something stupid. I might have... or might have made a good deal. Let me know what you think.

I ended up purchasing a very clean (supposedly) used Emotiva XPA-7 gen3 from Audiogon for about $1500. It is being shipped to my house as we speak. (The new price on these is around ~$2100 + tax and shipping)

It provides 300watts into 2 channels, or 250x5, or 200x7 with a shared switch-mode power supply. The power delivered varies based on the number of channels you are driving at the time, so that seems like an interesting design, which would be good for me.

After further research on the Emotivas, it seems like if you are going to purchase a Gen3 XPA series, then it makes the most sense to purchase the XPA-7, because all the amplifier cards are "modules", and exactly the same as each-other. So, given that the chassis size are all the same, you'd rather have 7 of the modules in the same size chassis instead fewer of them. The XPA-7 gives you the flexibility to run 2, 3, 5, or 7 channels with no loss of power as compared to buying a XPA-2, or XPA-3, etc.

This seems like this should have plenty of power for the Polk LSiM series. I am not really concerned about lack of power with this design. However, I just wonder if the Emotiva sound quality will be up to par with more fancy brands. I also wonder if this design style will hold up to the test of time over a 5, 10, or 15 year period.


It is good that this thing conserves power when it's not being used, and outputs less heat, so that should result in some cost savings over time.

I could not locate exact a long list of detailed specifications on the amp. I'm not an electrical engineer, so I wouldn't even be quite sure what I am looking at, either. However, most of the other amps don't publish a full list of specs besides the Monoprice.


It seems that very nice 200w+ 5-channel amps are hard to find around $1,500, especially if you include shipping and taxes.


If this particular XPA-7 has poor sound quality, or it has reliability problems, or if there is some other noteworthy problem, I will have to dispute the transaction, or sell the amp and find something else. Sadly, I don't have other amps on hand to to an A/B comparison with.

I owned an Emotiva Gen 3 3 channel for awhile it sounded as good as any other amp I've used you should enjoy it. Congratulations! As long as it doesn't crap out on you down the road you should enjoy it soundwise they sound as good as any other out there around that price range.

Hopefully you don't run into some of the ups and downs some of us have been through with Emotiva

But that could or could not happen who knows? Hopefully it'll last you for a long time

Congratulations bro post us your impressions once it comes in! Looking 4ward to hearing your insights and experiences!

 

[lovinthehd]

If this particular XPA-7 has poor sound quality, or it has reliability problems, or if there is some other noteworthy problem, I will have to dispute the transaction, or sell the amp and find something else. Sadly, I don't have other amps on hand to to an A/B comparison with.

I think you're way overthinking the sound quality aspects of an amp still.

 

[Landmonster]

Thanks. I will be sure to post impressions.

As I may have said before, I have a Denon X4500h receiver, which sounds pretty good, but it has become strained as I keep adding more and more of these Polk LSiM speakers to it.

When I finally added the 707 towers, and replaced the surrounds with 705 towers, the poor Denon really sounded strained and would become hot to the touch... that doesn't seem healthy!

I want a beefy amp that runs cool, and has as much power on tap as possible.

Some considerations were:
- The Monolith 7x is around $1800 shipped. It provides 200 watts x 7 @ 8ohms, but does not appear to transfer more wattage to 2 channels when used in 2-channel mode.

-The Emotiva XPA-7 is a true 200x7, but plays more wattage when used in 2 or 5 channel mode. Many Polk gurus swear by needing more than 200 watts to main the 707s come alive.

- The XPA-7 having true 7 channels allows me future flexibility, or the ability to just run 5 @ 250 watts currently.

-The Emotiva has a 5-year transferable warranty. This amp should have a little more than 2 years remaining, if it transfers successfully. That is a downside - since a new Monolith would have a full 5-year warranty.

- The Emomotiva runs much cooler than the Monolith designs.


Potential downsides, as noted:
-If the Emo has reliability problems
-If the used unit comes with defects, or hidden flaws.
-If the sound quality is somehow lacking vs a superior audiophile grade amp. I'm sure there are superior amps out there, but under ~$2k is definitely my budget for the time being.

Other notes:
- This amp could be used as surround-amp, if I ever decide to add a beastly 2 or 4-channel amp in a 9.2 or 11.2 type of system.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks. I will be sure to post impressions.

As I may have said before, I have a Denon X4500h receiver, which sounds pretty good, but it has become strained as I keep adding more and more of these Polk LSiM speakers to it.

When I finally added the 707 towers, and replaced the surrounds with 705 towers, the poor Denon really sounded strained and would become hot to the touch... that doesn't seem healthy!

I want a beefy amp that runs cool, and has as much power on tap as possible.

Some considerations were:
- The Monolith 7x is around $1800 shipped. It provides 200 watts x 7 @ 8ohms, but does not appear to transfer more wattage to 2 channels when used in 2-channel mode.

-The Emotiva XPA-7 is a true 200x7, but plays more wattage when used in 2 or 5 channel mode. Many Polk gurus swear by needing more than 200 watts to main the 707s come alive.

- The XPA-7 having true 7 channels allows me future flexibility, or the ability to just run 5 @ 250 watts currently.

-The Emotiva has a 5-year transferable warranty. This amp should have a little more than 2 years remaining, if it transfers successfully. That is a downside - since a new Monolith would have a full 5-year warranty.

- The Emomotiva runs much cooler than the Monolith designs.


Potential downsides, as noted:
-If the Emo has reliability problems
-If the used unit comes with defects, or hidden flaws.
-If the sound quality is somehow lacking vs a superior audiophile grade amp. I'm sure there are superior amps out there, but under ~$2k is definitely my budget for the time being.

Other notes:
- This amp could be used as surround-amp, if I ever decide to add a beastly 2 or 4-channel amp in a 9.2 or 11.2 type of system.

Curious, how do you know the Emotiva runs much cooler than the Monolith? You have thermometer measurements or something? I'm pretty sure @Pogre has mentioned his Monolith 7 runs pretty cool. FYI Emotiva has refused to service an amp for the owner of this site and he has had reliability issues to the point where he no longer will be reviewing Emotiva products.

 

[Pogre]

The Monolith comes with a warranty. To me that makes it more than worth the little bit more. When I made a dumb-dumb move and fried my first one, Monoprice replaced it for me, free of charge. I didn't even pay shipping. The additional power with the XPA MIGHT net you a 1 dB gain.

Like I said tho, as long as it holds up I'm sure you'll like it. I'd be crossing my fingers tho... how much are you spending with shipping and everything for the XPA? "About 1500" is a bit ambiguous.

 

[Pogre]

Curious, how do you know the Emotiva runs much cooler than the Monolith? You have thermometer measurements or something? I'm pretty sure @Pogre has mentioned his Monolith 7 runs pretty cool. FYI Emotiva has refused to service an amp for the owner of this site and he has had reliability issues to the point where he no longer will be reviewing Emotiva products.

I have no fan on it and could even use more clearance above and I've never felt mine get hot, ever. Even after long listening sessions with my speakers playing full range it's never been more than warm to the touch.

I'd never spend that much on a used amp. You're way better off buying new with stuff like this. You never know what can happen...

 

[Landmonster]

The Monolith comes with a warranty. To me that makes it more than worth the little bit more. When I made a dumb-dumb move and fried my first one, Monoprice replaced it for me, free of charge. I didn't even pay shipping. The additional power with the XPA MIGHT net you a 1 dB gain.

Like I said tho, as long as it holds up I'm sure you'll like it. I'd be crossing my fingers tho... how much are you spending with shipping and everything for the XPA? "About 1500" is a bit ambiguous.

Like I said, it come with a transferable warranty. I paid $1502.xx with shipping.

 

[Landmonster]

I have no fan on it and could even use more clearance above and I've never felt mine get hot, ever. Even after long listening sessions with my speakers playing full range it's never been more than warm to the touch.

I'd never spend that much on a used amp. You're way better off buying new with stuff like this. You never know what can happen...

There has to be some variance in these people's setups which account for this. But many (not all) people have said their Monoliths get extremely hot, in whatever rooms/setups/habits they are utilizing them in.

Buying used gear makes me nervous somewhat, though I have bought used audio gear before without issues. I have a few degrees of protection: Audiogon, Paypal, my credit card, and even Emotiva itself. If it comes damaged or blemished, hopefully Audiogon and Paypal will stand behind their buyer protection claims.

If not, then there is no reason to ever purchased used gear from one of these sites.

If it runs into problems down the road, hopefully Emotiva will honor their products, through warranty work or even paid repairs. If Emotiva won't stand behind their products for some bad reason, I will make sure to exasperate them, and then eventually flame them on every venue possible.

Aside from the transaction itself, I am just hoping to find the best suitable power-amp for my needs. I wanted something with 5 or more channels, with a least 200 watts of clean power per channel.

 

[lovinthehd]

You have some links to these reports of extremely hot units from Monolith?

 

[Pogre]

There has to be some variance in these people's setups which account for this. But many (not all) people have said their Monoliths get extremely hot, in whatever rooms/setups/habits they are utilizing them in.

......

Aside from the transaction itself, I am just hoping to find the best suitable power-amp for my needs. I wanted something with 5 or more channels, with a least 200 watts of clean power per channel.

I've never heard any reports on the Monoliths running hot. If you have some links I'm curious to read about it since I own one. They also measure above their rated 200 wpc with all 7 channels driven. Well over 300 wpc at 4 ohms. As far as Emotiva doing any kind of repairs or replace if something happens... good luck. Their refusal to fix an issue with one of their products for Gene is the reason he won't be reviewing their stuff anymore.

Neither here nor there now. I just don't get why folks come to a forum with questions, get answers from experienced people, then not take any of the advice given. Like I said, good luck.

 

[KEW]

As I understand it, the Monolith amp is a relabeled ATI amp that has been one of their "bread 'n butter" amps for many years (several times longer than Emotiva Gen 3 has been around) with a very solid track record. Their reliability is well established.
There are plenty of Emotiva amps that hove been around for a good while so they are not crap, but for build quality, I would always go with ATI over Emotiva!

 

[PENG]

As I understand it, the Monolith amp is a relabeled ATI amp that has been one of their "bread 'n butter" amps for many years (several times longer than Emotiva Gen 3 has been around) with a very solid track record. Their reliability is well established.
There are plenty of Emotiva amps that hove been around for a good while so they are not crap, but for build quality, I would always go with ATI over Emotiva!

Iirc, @M Code might have clarified the ATI/Monolith thing, also iirc, he might have said the Monolith was based on the older ATI design.. Sorry M Code if I quoted you wrong hence the "might", feel free to speak for yourself again as the Monolith has been mentioned and recommended so often just on this thread alone.

Regardless, it seems like a typical class AB design fitted with typical/conventional linear power supply so old or new don't/won't make audible differences. The only thing I have against Monolith and ATI equivalents is their weight and for the same reason I would always recommend Anthem's MCA amps for their lighter weights. Bryston too but they don't offer second tier lower priced series like Anthem does. If Anthem were to add more, say double it, storage capacitance, they would be almost perfect... for me I mean..

 

[KEW]

Iirc, @M Code might have clarified the ATI/Monolith thing, also iirc, he might have said the Monolith was based on the older ATI design.. Sorry M Code if I quoted you wrong hence the "might", feel free to speak for yourself again as the Monolith has been mentioned and recommended so often just on this thread alone.

Regardless, it seems like a typical class AB design fitted with typical/conventional linear power supply so old or new don't/won't make audible differences. The only thing I have against Monolith and ATI equivalents is their weight and for the same reason I would always recommend Anthem's MCA amps for their lighter weights. Bryston too but they don't offer second tier lower priced series like Anthem does. If Anthem were to add more, say double it, storage capacitance, they would be almost perfect... for me I mean..

There have been a couple of professional reviews that make clear that the monolith was identical to a specific model of ATI. I believe Gene addresses it in his review and off the top of my head I think it may have been home theater that also made the point.

Edit: from Home Theater Review:

one can pretty plainly see upon close inspection that Monoprice's Monolith 7 isn't a wholly original design. A cursory glance reveals more than a passing resemblance to ATI's AT2007 power amplifier. The power switch is the same. The power entry module is identical in form and position. Ignoring the faceplate, even their chassis are startlingly similar. And I'll be darned if I can tell the innards of the two amps apart based on the images I've seen of both, aside from a few minor differences.

Dig deeper, and the similarities become even more striking. Their specs are virtually identical--from their Class AB design and power rating of 200 watts per channel (with all seven channels driven, 20 Hz to 20 kHz, into eight ohms) to their signal-to-noise ratio (greater than 120 dB below rated FTC Full Bandwidth Power, A-weighted) to their Total Harmonic Distortion ("Less than 0.03 percent at full rated FTC power" and "Less than 0.005 percent at full EIA power at 1 kHz") to their Intermodulation Distortion ("Less than 0.03 percent at full rated FTC power" and "Less than 0.005 percent at full EIA power at 1 kHz). Even the verbiage of the specs is identical, and a mere two-tenths of a pound sets these 93-pound beasts apart in terms of reported weight. Their power supply design is the same. Their toroidal transformers look the same. Their thump-free start feature is the same. Their circuit boards? I dare you to tell one from the other. Even the fonts and symbols on the backs of the amps are identical in most respects.

Given Monoprice's previous legal troubles (aka the Energy Take Classic Kerfuffle of 2013),all of the above may raise an eyebrow or two, but consider this: ATI has a long history of making amps for other manufacturers. Indeed, the Outlaw Model 7700, well known to be the result of a partnership between ATI and Outlaw, is also a close match to both the AT2007 and the Monoprice Monolith 7 in terms of aesthetics and specs. The major difference is that the ATI and Outlaw amps are fully balanced, whereas the Monoprice amp is single-ended. That alone does point to some significant internal differences and could account for a significant chunk of the difference in price between them.

Monoprice also reports that the Monolith 7 is "designed, engineered, tested and assembled in the USA," which is exactly one word and a comma away from ATI's assurance of the pedigree of its own amps.

So take all of that for what you will.

Monoprice Monolith 7 Seven-Channel Amplifier Reviewed - HomeTheaterReview

Dennis Burger reviews Monoprice's new $1,499 Monolith 7 seven-channel amplifier, a Class AB design with a power rating of 200 watts per channel.

hometheaterreview.com

From AH review:

It could have been easy for Monoprice to source its amplifiers from an overseas outfit, slap on their logo, and call it a day. However, Monoprice smartly realized that they needed some street cred for their amps if the were going to be taken seriously. To do so, they made (in my opinion) a brilliant move: they worked with US-based ATI.

ATI may not be a household name, but chances are you’ve either seen or heard an amplifier built by ATI. Some of the most well-known companies (ie. Lexicon, Outlaw Audio, etc) in audio have either used ATI-designed amplifiers or had ATI build amplifiers to their specs. Now you can add Monoprice to that list. According to Monoprice, ALL Monolith amplifiers are built in the same Montebello California based facility that ATI builds their other amplifiers too.

With ATI behind the scenes, it should come as no surprise that the Monolith is an absolute beast of an amplifier in size, weight, and power specs. In fact that’s what I nicknamed it shortly into my review period, “the beast.”

All Monolith amplifiers are Class AB topologies and share the same overall chassis, with the difference being the number of amplifier channels under the hood. In my seven-channel review model there are two massive toroidal transformers capable of delivering 200 wpc with all channels driven into 8 ohms and 300 wpc with all channels driven into 4 ohms at full bandwidth.

What’s remarkable to me about all Monolith amplifiers (not just my seven-channel review unit) is the readiness and openness with which Monoprice provides specs. With some companies you’re searching for certain measurements and they don’t provide them or you’ll find that they fudge some numbers by only driving the amp with two channels and measuring it at 1kHz. That’s not a completely accurate way to rate amp’s performance—regardless of what the so-called industry standard measurements are.

 

[Pogre]

There have been a couple of professional reviews that make clear that the monolith was identical to a specific model of ATI. I believe Gene addresses it in his review and off the top of my head I think it may have been home theater that also made the point.

I think I found the review you're thinking of Kurt.

one can pretty plainly see upon close inspection that Monoprice's Monolith 7 isn't a wholly original design. A cursory glance reveals more than a passing resemblance to ATI's AT2007 power amplifier. The power switch is the same. The power entry module is identical in form and position. Ignoring the faceplate, even their chassis are startlingly similar. And I'll be darned if I can tell the innards of the two amps apart based on the images I've seen of both, aside from a few minor differences.

Clicky

*Edit: ATI AT2007

 

[Pogre]

I quoted you before your edit!

 

[KEW]

I think I found the review you're thinking of Kurt.

one can pretty plainly see upon close inspection that Monoprice's Monolith 7 isn't a wholly original design. A cursory glance reveals more than a passing resemblance to ATI's AT2007 power amplifier. The power switch is the same. The power entry module is identical in form and position. Ignoring the faceplate, even their chassis are startlingly similar. And I'll be darned if I can tell the innards of the two amps apart based on the images I've seen of both, aside from a few minor differences.

Clicky

*Edit: ATI AT2007

Thanks, I had found it and edited my post the same time you posted!
Also added AH review comments (but they did not specify which ATI model).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Don't know if anyone mentioned this, but Emotiva won't service their products if the original warranty has expired.

Gene would know.

 

[Verdinut]

Don't know if anyone mentioned this, but Emotiva won't service their products if the original warranty has expired.

Gene would know.

Is that meant to imply that ATI would service a Monolith or Outlaw amplifier built by them after the warranty has expired?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Is that meant to imply that ATI would service a Monolith or Outlaw amplifier built by them after the warranty has expired?

I don't know about ATI or other brands' policies. But I just sent ATI an email.

But the fact about Emotiva's non-warranty service policy has been discussed here on AH a few times.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just got response from ATI regarding Out-of-Warranty service:

"We service amps for our brands (ATI, BGW, DataSat, Theta Digital) even after the warranty period has expired. Only difference is that it isn't a warranty repair (there's a charge for parts, labor & return shipping).

For Monoprice and Outlaw amps, you would have to check with Monoprice and Outlaw, respectively."