My house has ceiling speakers, now what?

[Rando]

Hi all,
Beginner here, looking to connect my house for sound, some of the heavy lifting has been done for me, not sure how to bring it to the finish line. Sorry for the length of this post, but trying to not leaving anything out!

Background:

Bought my house (built in 2000) a couple years ago, entire house has speakers wired in the ceilings (and subwoofer wires in FR), each room/zone has a control knob already in place, six zones in total (some are 2 speakers, a couple are 4), and wires all culminate in a closet area behind TV. Wires in closet are labeled somewhat well but still leave me with some questions. Don’t know if these were ever in use before we moved in.

Knobs are “Soundolier” and have wires coming out of the back for Speakers (R+ R- L- L+) and Amplifier (R+ R- L- L+) and 12 volt power (ground (+)). (Pictures below)
My understanding (so far) is that to get this up and running (without changing to something new/fancy) is:

• 12vdc 1A supply to connect the knob power lines to – Yet not sure how to do this, do I just get a power source and splice the wires into it and plug in? Something like this: (wouldn't let me post link since I'm a noob)
• 6 Zone speaker switch – This seems pretty straight forward to me, some kind of 6 Zone Channel Speaker Switch Selector Switch Box on Amazon will work, right?
• Some form of amplifier – Single amplifier is simpler, but all zones would only be able to play the same thing. Multiple amps would allow me to plan different things in different zones, right? Also see an option where a single amplifier can push different sound to multiple zones? (not sure how I would do this with single speaker switch?)

That’s what I think I know.

Where I am right now is I’m trying to match the wires from the knobs back to the closet, and what I see is this for my first room (Gameroom) that I’m looking at, starting at the control knob:
Speakers:
R+ is brown and is tied to red
R- is purple and is tied to black - These 2 wires are together in a medium white casing
L- is blue and tied to black
L+ is white and tied to red - These 2 wires are together in a medium white casing
Amp:
R+ is yellow and tied to red
R- is black and tied to black
L- is grey and tied to green
L+ is orange and tied to white - These 4 wires are together in a big white casing
12VDC:
Ground is green and tied to small black
(+) is red and tied to small red - these 2 wires are together in a small white casing

A challenge is that the above individual wires are grouped into 4 white casing wires at the knob. However appear to be only 3 white casing wires that end in the closet marked for the Gameroom:
White casing that includes red, black, green, white
White casing that includes red, black, green, white
Small white casing that includes the small red, black 12V lines

The good is that one of the white casing wires is marked as "Sheer sound audio cable" so I'm assuming that contains the speaker wires, but I don't know which are R+, R-, L-, L+... how do I figure this out?

Once I I know that I assume that these wires would connect to the multi-zone speaker switch. And the power wires connect to the power source above, somehow.

Assuming the above is more or less correct, my main question is how do the remaining wires marked for Amp plug into the Amp? I don't have the Amp yet, but I assume that the Amp Connects to the speaker switch. I didn't assume that other wires from the control knob would connect directly to the Amp. What am I connecting to what there?
That’s where I am right now, I don’t have any equipment yet to test because I wanted to lay everything out to ensure I ordered the right things.

I did have a tech guy give me a quote but he went really high with Sonos amps and additional Bluetooth speakers and phone apps… I just want to get the speakers working for now.
Sorry so long, thanks in advance!

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

We get questions like this on a regular basis from people moving into a house with a mystery whole-house audio system. We try to help, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone come back and say “got it all figured out and working.”

You should get in touch with Soundolier tech support. Failing that, try Home Theater Direct. They specialize in whole-house audio and should be able to set you up with something that uses at least some of your existing hardware.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[TLS Guy]

I agree with Wayne.

We have had lots of these poss and are seldom able to help. Yours seems to be the worst to come along for a long time.

The real puzzler is what is that 12 volt line for. I suspect it is some type of amp trigger.

You see the biggest problem is that we can not guess what the designer had in mind and what system it was designed for.

These sort of systems are a detriment to a house and not an asset.

These Frankenstein systems never were much good and are now outdated in the extreme. They have been eclipsed by radio systems like Sonos.

I would not waste much time money or effort on that system.

 

[Rando]

I would not waste much time money or effort on that system.

Appreciate the input. I'll see what information I can dig up, my hope is to not spend a lot, and I know when I'm done I won't have an overall amazing experience, but it's now pretty much a challenge to see if I can get music flowing through the house using the existing tech.

Or I'll blow the things in my attempt. Either way there will be a sound.

If I learn anything new I'll post here.

 

[Darenwh]

My guess is that the photos are of the individual room modules. The button will turn that individual rooms amplifier (part of the module) on if the receiver is on and Power that rooms speakers. The 12v is the power supply to the module and has nothing to do with the 12v trigger on a receiver. Where this is coming from I cannot tell you. Speaker connections go to the speakers in the room (no surprise there) and Amplifier + and - go back to pre outs on your receiver. Just my guess and you have full responsibility for anything you do with the information.

 

[Darenwh]

If I am correct you won’t need a speaker switch at all. 12v power supply may need more than 1amp, really not sure on that. Individual modules are likely the amps for the individual room speaker pairs as well So likely do not need another amp. I suspect that the two white casings with red, black, green, and white are to go to pre amp out on receiver for your primary channels (or zone 2 depending on how you want to use the system) and the other will go to the in wall Subwooferr. Finding which is which will likely be trial and error. Good luck with the system and come back and let us know if it works.

Note, this is your wiring diagram for rca outs from receiver.

Amp:
R+ is yellow and tied to red
R- is black and tied to black
L- is grey and tied to green
L+ is orange and tied to white - These 4 wires are together in a big white casing

 

[Rando]

Figured out part of my problem, I'm stupid!

Found a diagram of the control knobs and wiring online. I was assuming that all wires from the control knob were coming back to the closet, but they're not, 4 wires are going up to the pair of speakers in the ceiling. So I'm looking for too many wires in the closet... The wires that go to the Amp connect the speakers to the Amp through the control knob... Duh!

This does mean I have an extra set of wires that I think are for the Gameroom, curious what the second set is.

But if I can connect the power, I could be good to go.

 

[Darenwh]

Second set could go to the Subwoofer.

 

[BMXTRIX]

The key is ensuring that the wiring, as listed above by @Darenwh is accurate.

AT THE VOLUME CONTROL:
R+ is yellow and tied to red
R- is black and tied to black
L- is grey and tied to green
L+ is orange and tied to white

I can't see them in your photo, but this does follow industry standard. The fact that this is industry standard has no bearing on if your home was ACTUALLY wired this way. It matters how things ARE wired, not how they should be wired.

So, at your volume control, pull out the control far enough to see the wire nut and make sure things are actually wired the way that they are listed here.

Now, with an amplifier, you connect the wires as they are actually connected. If RED is R+ and BLACK is R- then connect those to the amplifier exactly that way.
If WHITE is L+ then connect that to L+ on the amplifier. If GREEN is L- then tie that to L- on the amplifier.

Then plug in your phone to the to amplifier as a source and see if you get audio through the speakers.

I must honestly say that I've never seen a 12v input on a volume control. I'm guessing that is to remotely power on/off an amplifier. It likely can be ignored, but if you can find the manual for those specific volume controls, then you can confirm that is what it is for. I really am not positive on this though, so it's worth checking why in the world this cable exists. Most volume controls just have L/R in, and L/R out connections (8 total connections) to the units.

If you are willing to actually go and get your hands dirty on this and do some DiY work, I completely disagree with others who suggest you call someone else. I, and others are actually willing to walk you though it, but you do have to provide us some photos and some feedback on what's going on.

You also need to figure out what you want to do overall with the system and get a good road map of what the wiring is and get comfortable with all of it.

 

[Rando]

I must honestly say that I've never seen a 12v input on a volume control. I'm guessing that is to remotely power on/off an amplifier. It likely can be ignored, but if you can find the manual for those specific volume controls, then you can confirm that is what it is for. I really am not positive on this though, so it's worth checking why in the world this cable exists. Most volume controls just have L/R in, and L/R out connections (8 total connections) to the units.

Thanks for the insight. It looks like you're saying the power to the switches might be an extra feature, and not necessarily a necessity, for sound to flow from the Amp to the speakers. I'm going to start this experiment with a basic amp and switch, and hold off on the power in the beginning.

I'm attaching a document I located that appears to match up with the control knobs I have. Based on the diagram I think I'm setup in the "Home Run" wiring style, and the wiring of the 12V makes me think you might be right above.

I hope to provide an update Thursday.

Thanks.

 

[BMXTRIX]

WOW! That actually reads like power is actually required for the volume controls to operate at all.

Bogus.

This is NOT typical on any other volume control I have ever seen. It definitely reads as a requirement. It's listed on the right side of page 1 towards the bottom under "ARCHITECT AND ENGINEER SPECIFICATIONS"
"12 VDC power supply is required"

Well, it looks like that is to (somehow) enable a local 'MUTE' of the speakers.

Atlas makes some pretty garbage stuff in my experience. It works, but it's super cheap typically. Used in a lot of office spaces.

There are better volume controls which just use 4 conductors on the input (audio in) and 4 conductors on the output (audio out) and no 12v power is needed. Pretty much the standard, as I said. If you look up volume controls from major speaker manufacturers you will see that most have a similar design. Niles, Speakercraft, and Sonance are great examples.

Stereo Volume Control w/Selectable Impedance - White, Bone, Light Almond, Black | Niles Audio

www.nilesaudio.com

 

[Pogre]

Damn, these whole home audio setups are far more complicated than I realized when I first started posting here. It does look like you're getting your arms around it, if not an optimal setup. Good luck and keep us posted. You have a couple of our best guys helping you out right now.

 

[ellisr63]

Would a handheld tone generator help you find out which wires are which?

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

 

[Rando]

There are better volume controls which just use 4 conductors on the input (audio in) and 4 conductors on the output (audio out) and no 12v power is needed. Pretty much the standard, as I said. If you look up volume controls from major speaker manufacturers you will see that most have a similar design. Niles, Speakercraft, and Sonance are great examples.

Thanks.

I'll first test without connecting power. If that doesn't work, I'll experiment with providing power. And if that doesn't work, explore an alternative/power free knob option.

 

[Darenwh]

Would a handheld tone generator help you find out which wires are which?

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

A fox and hound system would make it easier to determine which bundle in the closet goes to the main speakers in each room and where the other bundle goes to. Beyond that I don't know how it would help...

 

[Rando]

A fox and hound system would make it easier to determine which bundle in the closet goes to the main speakers in each room and where the other bundle goes to. Beyond that I don't know how it would help...

I will have to look that up, I don't know what the above means.

First test with just Amp showed no results or response from Speakers/knobs, I'm thinking above assumption that power is needed for these particular knobs is correct. Awaiting receipt of power source for next test.

 

[Darenwh]

A fox and hound is a device that is often used for tracing network cabling or other cabling when it goes through walls or between floors. The 'Fox' part is attached to the cable and sends a pulsing signal through the wire. The 'Hound' is a hand held device that can hear the signal passing through the wire and is waved by the cabling to cause a pulsing sound from a speaker when it is near the correct wire, getting louder as it gets closer to the correct cable. It's a rather expensive way to find the correct cabling for a single use instance like this.

A little more difficult but still effective would be to simply run a wire connected to the wire you think may be the correct one through the house back to the closet and then just use a meter to see if you have connectivity through the wire. For instance, lets say you have a green wire in a bundle that you suspect goes to a switch in the den, as long as you insure you have no current on the wire you can connect another wire to it in the den, run that wire through the house to the closet, then use your multi-meter on continuity (if yours has continuity test) or on a resistance test to touch the green in the closet with one lead and the wire you ran from the green on the other side to the closet to see if you have continuity.

Yet another option, after you confirm that there is no current in the wires, would be to connect two of the conductors together at the far end (say green and black) then check for continuity from the green to the black on the near end.

Though these tests will tell you if you have continuity to a specific location on that wire bundle it does not tell you if that cable has other connections in parallel.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I wanted to throw out that if you did not do so, please double check that the wires going into the volume controls follow the color pattern which was listed in the post.

While red/black are TYPICALLY the positive and negative for the right speaker, how it is REALLY wired is what matters most.

I'm darn near positive that you will need a 12v DC power supply to feed the volume controls. 12v DC power supplies are readily available and often people have an old one tucked away in a bin in their basement which they can sacrifice to the cause. You could pull a volume control out of the wall and splice the power supply into it directly to get the light on the front of the unit working and see if that allows for it to work.

I wouldn't spend the money on a decent tone generator/wand setup for a one-off system. You may ask your IT guys at work if they have a set you can borrow, but this isn't a common item for people to have. Even after doing this for 20 years, I only have a cheap fox and hound set.

 

[TLS Guy]

I wanted to throw out that if you did not do so, please double check that the wires going into the volume controls follow the color pattern which was listed in the post.

While red/black are TYPICALLY the positive and negative for the right speaker, how it is REALLY wired is what matters most.

I'm darn near positive that you will need a 12v DC power supply to feed the volume controls. 12v DC power supplies are readily available and often people have an old one tucked away in a bin in their basement which they can sacrifice to the cause. You could pull a volume control out of the wall and splice the power supply into it directly to get the light on the front of the unit working and see if that allows for it to work.

I wouldn't spend the money on a decent tone generator/wand setup for a one-off system. You may ask your IT guys at work if they have a set you can borrow, but this isn't a common item for people to have. Even after doing this for 20 years, I only have a cheap fox and hound set.

I think he should use the power supplies specified by the manufacturer, and get the one for the number of controls he has. 12 Volt supplies all have a spec, in terms of ripple and especially ripple against power draw. We do not know how fragile those devices are. Therefore I will always use a defined power supply if one is specified.

 

[Rando]

Wow wow wow, it works!

Yes I did have to connect each switch to a central power source. PDF showed that a 12V to 1Amp power supply was needed if more than 3 switches, so found one, cut it, and spliced in each room which resulted in a light on each switch. Two rooms were hard to nail down but turned out they were not using traditional red/black cabling so going back and identifying the colored wires used resolved that.

Next step was connecting speaker wires. This was pretty straightforward once each knob had power. I tested my first speakers directly at the amp with success, labeled, and then connected to my switch box and connected that to the amp. Marked each switch with the appropriate room and continued. Looks like I have two extra rooms wired for sound but no speakers or knobs exists. Not worried about it.

Was able to connect Alexa to Tuner and she can now play sound throughout house. If I hook the tuner to an Alexa plug I can have her turn it on as well which will make the wife happier.

Remaining questions/things to do:
- Dining room volume knob works, but the power button doesn't turn that room off, speakers continue to play. Everything seems to be connected correctly, assuming a bad knob?
- Similar problem in Family room, but not only does the power button not cut sound, the knob doesn't control volume either, and it's the loudest room, so am thinking the unit is bad and stuck at max volume?
- I have wiring for a sub-woofer, but haven't explored how to wire that yet
- Wife wants CD player to play old music, and to connect TV to tuner

For the record before anyone asks, I went very simple with components, as this all was mainly to prove possible, can upgrade later to a multiple zone system or such:
- Sony STRDH190 2-ch Stereo Receiver with Phono Inputs & Bluetooth
- Monoprice 8-Channel Speaker Selector With Impedance Matching Protection, Up To 200 Watts Per Ch.
- Don't know specs on ceiling speakers but assume poor builder grade from 15-20 years ago (but all currently working without issue that I can hear)

Thanks for the help above and I'll continue to hang out and try to learn.