The Denon AVR-X8500H

[richierey1]

It is not a simple right or wrong thing.. The recording quality is paramount. If you have HD files of high quality recordings at bit depth/sampling frequency of 24bit/192kHz or higher, and/or DSD/SACD files, then you need to stream via Ethernet or wifi that are capable of transferring at much higher bit rate. If you play only MP3 quality or even CD quality digital files, then bluetooth is very adequate. So it seems that you are happy with MP3 kind of quality, in that case just about any mid range AVRs will be good for you, just make sure you have adequate power for you and don't worry about the difference in sound quality because the difference between different power amps at the price point of the Monolith and Outlaw are very minimal, relative to the difference between MP3 and CD quality (just an example).

If you are listen with volume at 80 now, the SR6009 is barely adequate. "80" in absolute is "0" in relative. You are probably listening at or near reference level, just my educated guess.

To really make a difference though, I would suggest the Outlaw 7900 that is rated 300 WPC, 8 ohms. With that, at volume 0 you would gain almost 5 dB of headroom and your AVR may last longer.

Ok Thank you. Just to be clear I prefer lossless as opposed to MP3. That is why i cancelled Spotify and switched over to Qobuz. Night and day difference (at least for my ears). I've been able to transfer via Bluetooth in Hi-Res (up to 16-24bit/44.1-192kHz) without any buffering issues. Can Bluetooth not transfer at 24bit/192 kHz?

 

[lovinthehd]

Ok Thank you. Just to be clear I prefer lossless as opposed to MP3. That is why i cancelled Spotify and switched over to Qobuz. Night and day difference (at least for my ears). I've been able to transfer via Bluetooth in Hi-Res (up to 16-24bit/44.1-192kHz) without any buffering issues. Can Bluetooth not transfer at 24bit/192 kHz?

Bluetooth is generally not even up to cd quality, altho some of the newest versions apparently get really close (and needed in both the source and the avr....what version of BT does the avr have?).

 

[Pogre]

Thank you. I will try Audyssey when i have time and will report back what i found. Probably this Wednesday 10/30 when i have my son with me. He is much more meticulous and patient than i am with those things. ;-)

If anything, it should give me a basline from which to begin, then tweak to my preference as opposed to just casting assumptions.

Thanks.

Yes, run Audyssey and see how it does for you, for sure. I would also encourage you to experiment with repositioning those speakers as well. If you can, set them up in a more 6.1 surround type configuration, run Audyssey, make sure all of your settings are straight (LFE only, DEQ on, Dynamic Volume off, LFC off, etc.) and experiment from there.

 

[richierey1]

Hadn't really thought of it quite that way but I'd still like to see something about the phase correction between full rangers rather than at the crossover....

PENG, lovintheHD,
When you get a sec can you explain what you said in English? I don't understand. I realize my frankenstein setup in unconventional, but i like it. I can't explain why. It just sounds ... like an orchestra. I wish i could do better explaining the sound, but that's the best i can convey.

Thanks.

 

[richierey1]

Bluetooth is generally not even up to cd quality, altho some of the newest versions apparently get really close (and needed in both the source and the avr....what version of BT does the avr have?).

This unit supports the following Bluetooth profile.
0 A2DP (Advanced Audio Distribution Profile):
When a Bluetooth device that supports this standard is connected,
monaural and stereo sound data can be streamed at a high quality.


Communications system: Bluetooth Version 2.1 + EDR (Enhanced Data Rate)
Transmission power: Maximum 2.5 mW (Class 2)
Maximum communication range: Approx. 10 m in line of sightz2
Frequency band: 2.4 GHz band
Modulation scheme: FHSS (Frequency-Hopping Spread Spectrum)
Supported profiles: A2DP (Advanced Audio Distribution Profile) 1.2
AVRCP (Audio Video Remote Control Profile) 1.4
Corresponding codec: SBC, AAC
Transmission range (A2DP): 20 Hz - 20,000 Hz

 

[lovinthehd]

PENG, lovintheHD,
When you get a sec can you explain what you said in English? I don't understand. I realize my frankenstein setup in unconventional, but i like it. I can't explain why. It just sounds ... like an orchestra. I wish i could do better explaining the sound, but that's the best i can convey.

Thanks.

My impression is that the only phase correction Audyssey makes is at the crossover between sub and speaker, I could be wrong. Audyssey doesn't expect your placement for 6 speakers but may not care as much as I think it might and might do better than I expect in eq'g generally. Your speaker placement is frankenstein, tho

Back to speaker setup, have you ever tried placing speakers in four corners and on the sides? That way you could at least see if a surround mode works better than all three pairs up front.

 

[Pogre]

PENG, lovintheHD,
When you get a sec can you explain what you said in English? I don't understand. I realize my frankenstein setup in unconventional, but i like it. I can't explain why. It just sounds ... like an orchestra. I wish i could do better explaining the sound, but that's the best i can convey.

Thanks.

Acoustic lobing.
Comb filtering.

Comb filtering and lobing are two things that speaker manufacturers carefully consider and try to compensate for or avoid altogether when designing and engineering a speaker. The way you have your speakers set up lined up like that is introducing a lot of both due to the way all of those drivers playing the same signal interact with each other. My knowledge is incomplete, but that's how I understand what's probably going on with your setup. They're debating whether or not Audyssey would be able to do anything to compensate for it.

 

[lovinthehd]

This unit supports the following Bluetooth profile.
0 A2DP (Advanced Audio Distribution Profile):
When a Bluetooth device that supports this standard is connected,
monaural and stereo sound data can be streamed at a high quality.


Communications system: Bluetooth Version 2.1 + EDR (Enhanced Data Rate)
Transmission power: Maximum 2.5 mW (Class 2)
Maximum communication range: Approx. 10 m in line of sightz2
Frequency band: 2.4 GHz band
Modulation scheme: FHSS (Frequency-Hopping Spread Spectrum)
Supported profiles: A2DP (Advanced Audio Distribution Profile) 1.2
AVRCP (Audio Video Remote Control Profile) 1.4
Corresponding codec: SBC, AAC
Transmission range (A2DP): 20 Hz - 20,000 Hz

Last I checked aptX was the best of the BT versions and seems there are several of those now....this article has more on BT than I know about. https://www.soundguys.com/understanding-bluetooth-codecs-15352/

 

[PENG]

My impression is that the only phase correction Audyssey makes is at the crossover between sub and speaker, I could be wrong. Audyssey doesn't expect your placement for 6 speakers but may not care as much as I think it might and might do better than I expect in eq'g generally. Your speaker placement is frankenstein, tho

That is correct, Audyssey does not care if placement is Frankenstein, vampire or zombie..
It just take the info collected by the mic positions for all the channels and apply filters to correct levels and phase issues created by the speakers/room interaction. Also, it will try to create filters (regardless of level or phase) within the audible range, unless limited by the user (using Editor App only),or the speakers (roll off point). That is not just at crossover points.

Below is from the fantastic AH interview conducted by Steve Munz,
in case you are interested in reading/re-reading the whole article:

Audyssey MultEQ Room Correction Interview With Chris Kyriakakis

The Audioholics interview Chris Kyriakakis in order to learn the ins and outs of Audyssey's MultEQ room correction / auto-calibration system. Bass management, calibration, EQ and more.

www.audioholics.com

Note that Chris never say anything about limiting correction to crossover points.

"Chris Kyriakakis: MultEQ is capable of applying correction from 10 Hz to 24 kHz. However, during the measurement process it first determines the roll off points of each speaker and subwoofer, and limits the correction below that point.

Audioholics: What do you feel are the important differentiators between your room correction solution and competitors?
Chris Kyriakakis: There are three major components which set MultEQ apart from competitors:

• Taking measurements in the time domain to generate impulse responses

• Taking multiple measurements to inform the filters about the spatial variation of the acoustical problems

• Using psychoacoustic criteria and multi-rate signal processing methods to apply the proper filter resolution where it’s needed the most and to optimize processing requirements"

Below is one of my REW plots for the Left+Right channel, Audyssey on vs off, full range/large, subwoofers off.
I also plotted the same for left only and right only. People dialed in their subs manually, might have missed the point that for optimal performance, they need to consider the interaction between the channels as well. That, to me, is why I believe DRC such as XT32, YPAO and Dirac Live etc., are valuable, at least for FR below the room transition frequency point.

 

[CoryW]

I only listen to 2 channel music. No movies. No video games. I have a massive TV in my family room, but not my living room. My living room is reserved for music only. Please see my photograph to get an idea of speaker placement. Listening position is about 16.5 ft away. As for a pre-amp unit, i wrote earlier about using my AVR simply as a pre-amp and purchasing monoblocks for power.

Here's my current typical setup:

Speaker Configuration
- Amp Assign: Main only
- Speaker config.:
Front: Large
Center: None
Subwoofer: No
Surround: Large
Surr. Back: Large
Front Wide: None
Front High: None
- Distances: Default
- Crossovers: Disabled
- Bass: LPF for LFE, 80HZ

Audio
- Surround parameter: Off
- M-Dax: Low
- Audio Delay: None
- Volume: 0 - 98
- Audyssey: Not enabled
- Graphic EQ: Off

Sound Mode
- Multi-channel stereo

Tone
- Treble: +2
- Bass: 0

This is kinda a different issue. Beauty & quality sound is all in the eye of the beholder right? Could this be an issue with speaker choice more than power? I ran A/B a while back, I tried running all four, but they only interfered with each other. The soundstage was muddy. As for a big sound, I can make every floor joist, every window, walls, pictures, foundation, old people, cats......shake in stereo mode. But again, you like what you like. Fun topic to kick around.....

 

[2channel lover]

2channel lover - As far as what am i missing in terms of SQ ... honestly nothing, that i know of. And I guess that is why i ask the question. I honestly don't know what i don't know. I love my current setup. I have had my CDM 7 SEs for over 20 years. They were my first purchase at a Wilson Audio store when i was a 26 year old newly graduated math major and now having all three pairs performing in unison, the soundstage sounds gorgeous. Each have their own character which i can modify individually based on position, volume and tone. I appreciate that the SR6009 allows for this in multi-channel mode at the individual speaker level. Thank you.

That's good to know.

I'm an old school 2 channel fan as my screen name suggests, but I''m really into multi-ch music now...old dog can learn new tricks I guess.

I haven't really spent much time with B&W aside from the 800 series. I'm still a fan of the B&W sound. Having lived with my 804M for over 20 yrs, I felt it was time to upgrade, wasn't sure what I was getting into. I was familiar with term "warm" in describing B&W speakers but had no idea what that meant until I heard some speakers that were noted to be neutral.

The same applies to you, the only way to know what you're missing is to listen to speakers that are more neutral than the B&Ws. You may or may not like what you hear, but answering the question...what are you missing?

 

[Pogre]

This is kinda a different issue. Beauty & quality sound is all in the eye of the beholder right? Could this be an issue with speaker choice more than power? I ran A/B a while back, I tried running all four, but they only interfered with each other. The soundstage was muddy. As for a big sound, I can make every floor joist, every window, walls, pictures, foundation, old people, cats......shake in stereo mode. But again, you like what you like. Fun topic to kick around.....

This, my 2 speakers in stereo can play louder than what's comfortable and have a big soundstage with big sound. It's all in the way you set up and integrate everything. I believe you're introducing problems you're unaware of running all of those speakers in multichannel stereo.