$1,900 Subwoofer Budget help

[Matthew J Poes]

Well, that’s interesting indeed! I’m gonna have to go look. Might have to eat some crow!!! Lol

yeah I don’t know what kind of driver RBH designed for those, but for a 12” driver to have that kind of output at 20hz implies serious excursion capability. I would guess about 20-30mm of excursion at least.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

I did get the FV18 paper cone, are you comparing that version? The RBH looks nice just way out of my budget, seeing the FV18 was over budget already lol

yeah I compared to the FV18. I mean don’t get me wrong, the FV18 is a very impressive sub. I threw in the JTR 4000ulf which sells for like $3600 as an output comparison. It’s an insane sub. Huge too.

 

[Jivinjoe]

I wonder if databass will do the paper cone version. This is from Rythmiks site.
Standard FV18 version uses metal cone DS1820 for its stiffness and low distortion. The independent test lab site www.data-bass.com has published the max distortion numbers for our metal cone FV18 and F18. The F18 has lower distortion and yet more output than Velodyne DD18+ for 1/3 of the price. Paper cone like the one used in Velodyne DD18+ can be made lighter than metal cone and therefore improve outputs above 50hz by up to 3db with the sacrifice of slightly higher distortions. For those who are after the maximum headroom in HT application may consider the paper cone version FV18SW (with paper cone SW1825).

 

[Danzilla31]

I want Shane to send me four of them!

Yeah they are not cheap but seem worth the money. A lot of output density. Not that they are small.

now if I may give a little endorsement to my friend Jeff with JTR speakers. His subs are an excellent value. Honestly they should be twice the price. Thick plywood enclosures, speaker power amps, and really nice custom made drivers. They are not small, but the performance is nearly unmatched. If anyone else made those they would probably be twice as expensive.

if we can find a clear day i will be measuring four of his subwoofers in the next week or so. We shall see how they do. I’m just hoping he doesn’t feel like taking them home and leaves them with me.

I love JTR those captivator 4000 are just INSANE

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

yeah I don’t know what kind of driver RBH designed for those, but for a 12” driver to have that kind of output at 20hz implies serious excursion capability. I would guess about 20-30mm of excursion at least.

Those have to be very special drivers. I looked at the graph and wow!
I wonder about pricing(can’t find anything for the 212). The fv18 is a pretty good buy imo. I think a pair would be a worthy investment for any theater. As far as Jeff goes, I love what he’s been doing. Especially that he’s using speaker power amps. However it seems that he needs to expand the operation. I’ve heard about CS issues and time to respond problems. I get that. I’ve owned, and still own small businesses. It’s hard. I have nothing but respect for him. I ribbed him once for the bed liner finish. It was a fun conversation.

 

[shadyJ]

I wonder if databass will do the paper cone version. This is from Rythmiks site.
Standard FV18 version uses metal cone DS1820 for its stiffness and low distortion. The independent test lab site www.data-bass.com has published the max distortion numbers for our metal cone FV18 and F18. The F18 has lower distortion and yet more output than Velodyne DD18+ for 1/3 of the price. Paper cone like the one used in Velodyne DD18+ can be made lighter than metal cone and therefore improve outputs above 50hz by up to 3db with the sacrifice of slightly higher distortions. For those who are after the maximum headroom in HT application may consider the paper cone version FV18SW (with paper cone SW1825).

When you raise sensitivity by reducing cone weight, you change the resonant frequency. The idea that the trade-off is only slightly higher distortion just isn't the whole truth. To get an idea of its performance, it has to be remeasured. Doubling sensitivity by shedding cone weight turns it into a very different sub.

 

[lovinthehd]

I wonder about pricing(can’t find anything for the 212). .

The SX1212 models (passive and powered) have been discontinued for a coupla years. Looks like the SV1212 is the current version, and a new S version coming soon as well. Pricing is on the RBH site....

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Just remember everyone, we do exactly the same testing that data-bass does. When you see something there and wish something else was tested, ask us. Better yet, tell the manufacturer to talk to us. We can test near anything.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

The SX1212 models (passive and powered) have been discontinued for a coupla years. Looks like the SV1212 is the current version, and a new S version coming soon as well. Pricing is on the RBH site....

Wow. The non powered is a grand. Amps are cheap, and if you already have one/two... that could really be something. Hmmmm

 

[lovinthehd]

Wow. The non powered is a grand. Amps are cheap, and if you already have one/two... that could really be something. Hmmmm

The SV1212N is $1600 and S1212 is $1000 but do either share the drivers of the SX?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

The SV1212N is $1600 and S1212 is $1000 but do either share the drivers of the SX?

Don’t know. Wouldn’t think they’d go backwards though.

 

[lovinthehd]

Don’t know. Wouldn’t think they’d go backwards though.

Well maybe the SV replaced SX but S seems new and just a lower price point but maybe @AcuDefTechGuy can find out or explain since he's a dealer?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well maybe the SV replaced SX but S seems new and just a lower price point but maybe @AcuDefTechGuy can find out or explain since he's a dealer?

Good point! WhT say you Andrew?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The SV1212N is $1600 and S1212 is $1000 but do either share the drivers of the SX?

Good point! WhT say you Andrew?

I was told the SV1212N has the same driver as the SX1212N.

The new S1212N has different driver than the SX1212/SV1212.

For a little "less performance and aesthetics" than the flagship SV1212N, I think the new S1212N is the best deal out there, especially if you can get at discounted prices AND if you want a subwoofer with External Amp so you don't have to worry about having to replace the built-in amp like most subs.

So the new S1212 has similar performance as the SV/SX1212, but at less price.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

I was told the SV1212N has the same driver as the SX1212N.

The new S1212N has different driver than the SX1212/SV1212.

For a little "less performance and aesthetics" than the flagship SV1212N, I think the new S1212N is the best deal out there, especially if you can get at discounted prices AND if you want a subwoofer with External Amp so you don't have to worry about having to replace the built-in amp like most subs.

So the new S1212 has similar performance as the SV/SX1212, but at less price.

we might be able to actually test these. @shadyJ will probably kill me for suggesting this, but I imagine RBH would be willing to send these along for review and testing. I suspect the cheaper model is probably about 3-6 dB less output across the range with the greatest loss in output below 30hz.

if we tested them I would want both models since I would want to be able to make direct comparisons. Josh uses the same testing method we do but we still aren’t the same people. I believe James has mentioned before that this method is good but not so good that comparison across testers is perfect. In a perfect world we would expect agreement to within .5dB. However I think in practice, with the amount of variables that can impact this, it’s actually closer to 1.5-2 dB. And that assumes the same version of the standard is adopted. If you use the 2034/2010b standard then the numbers simply are not comparable to those obtained with 2010a and could differ by as much as 3dB or more.

 

[Danzilla31]

I was told the SV1212N has the same driver as the SX1212N.

The new S1212N has different driver than the SX1212/SV1212.

For a little "less performance and aesthetics" than the flagship SV1212N, I think the new S1212N is the best deal out there, especially if you can get at discounted prices AND if you want a subwoofer with External Amp so you don't have to worry about having to replace the built-in amp like most subs.

So the new S1212 has similar performance as the SV/SX1212, but at less price.

Pming u

 

[CoryW]

yeah I don’t know what kind of driver RBH designed for those, but for a 12” driver to have that kind of output at 20hz implies serious excursion capability. I would guess about 20-30mm of excursion at least.

Just from testing my 1010-sen/r (driver HP-10ALU) subs with a track that starts at well below 20 Hz, the 10” drivers appear to jump right out of the frames when the signal starts. It’s totally silent....the sub amp is showing 70-80% load. When the frequency comes up to roughly 16 Hz, the entire basement comes alive with everything shaking....windows, subfloor. Pictures, then at roughly 18-20 Hz, it’s shaking your innards. Both sphincters twitch....it’s glorious to behold.

The excursion I observed is insane. I made a video, but I don’t think that type of upload is allowed. When I dropped by RBH home office, I discussed this with them. I said I was worried about bottoming the driver in this situation. He smiled, and said that this driver will not bottom out.

I can only imagine what their 12” reference driver in twin form could do. I bought one of their 12 (I think it’s A-300) sub drivers for an upgrade in my ancient RBH sub. It’s now shaking my bedroom apart. Wow do they know how to design a woofer so full of “meat”.


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[Montucky]

Wow do they know how to design a woofer so full of “meat”.

Truth! When they state that a sub amp is rated at 350 or 500 watts, it sure seems to destroy any other subwoofer I've heard in the </=500 Watt category!

I think unlike most manufacturers, RBH is honest with their power ratings, if not underrated. Also helps that they claim RMS ratings and not just peak ratings like some brands. Always makes me chuckle when I see a HTIB at the store and the subwoofer says "1000 WATTS OF ROOM SHAKING POWER!!!" or something to that effect when in reality they're more like 50 Watts if that.

Been a big fan of every sub of theirs I've tried out.

 

[Jivinjoe]

So I got everything in and wired. Anyone is Wisconsin do house calls for calibration?

 

[lovinthehd]

So I got everything in and wired. Anyone is Wisconsin do house calls for calibration?

Why not just run Audyssey? @highfigh may be able to help, he's in Milwaukee area....